
Here's our summary of key economic events overnight that affect New Zealand, with news the Wall Street and business titans who supported the 2024 Trump campaign are starting to turn on him, one calling the current situation "a clown show".
The show has got even more extreme overnight. The US has added another 50% to tariffs on its imports from China, taking the total to 104%.
But first up today, the overnight GDT Pulse dairy auction saw SMP prices fall a bit more than expected, down -2.6% from last week's full auction. But the WMP price slipped much less than expected, down just -1.8% on the same basis. The falling currency over the past week means there is no net change in NZD. The floating exchange rate is doing its job as a stabiliser.
In the US, nominal retail sales surged last week, up +7.2% from the same week a year ago as consumers rushed to stock up on goods ahead of the tariff-induced hikes. That was its fastest rise since late-2022. Some of that 'gain' will have been from early price hikes, of course.
Going the other way, the NFIB Small Business Optimism Index fell sharply in March, by its most since June 2022 and to its lowest level since October 2024. This was a much larger fall than anyone saw coming. They anticipated a fall but not like this. The component 'uncertainty index' stayed at record high levels.
Americans' appetite for consumer debt actually fell in February by -US$810 mln, the first drop since November. This followed a downwardly revised increase of +US$8.9 bln in January and came in well below the +US$15 bln rise expected. There were sharp and notable drops in demand for credit card debt, and car loan debt.
The latest UST 3 year bond auction was well supported. But there was a notable -8.5% drop in total bids this time, the largest easing of support we have seen. It delivered a median yield of 3.70%, down from 3.85% at the prior equivalent event a month ago.
In China, there is a notable fall in the price of iron ore, down -12.5% from the start of April. That has yet to show up in the cash USD price of Australian iron ore, but it will soon. For reference the price of copper is down -18% in the same eight days.
In China, the 'home team' is stepping up to buy equities to prevent them crashing further. State funds were reported to be very active yesterday. Separately, China is letting its currency weaken as a counterweight to the American tariffs. The yuan (CNY) isn't moving much but trending from the target 7.2:USD, but this official set rate is moving in the same direction as the offshore yuan (CNH) and heading to 7.35:USD. It is now at a 17 year low to the USD. China said it will "fight to the end" opposing the new US tariffs.
Australia's NAB business confidence index ticked lower in March 2025 from a revised negative level in February, and it is now at its lowest level since November 2024.
Staying in Australia, the Westpac Melbourne Institute consumer sentiment survey is seeing fear rising after the Trump tariff actions. Sentiment is -10% lower among those surveyed after the earlier April US tariff announcements. Aussies are now less confident on prospect of interest rate cuts by the RBA.
Last night there was an election debate between the two major party leaders on the Murdoch-owned Sky News platform (a Liberal Party mouthpiece). Embarrassingly, the audience vote after the event had the Labor prime minister winning that debate handily (44% to 35% with 21% undecided). The Murdoch minion whose job it was to stack the audience is probably out of a job this morning.
Internationally, the IAEA says that while there is enough uranium being mined to support nuclear energy demand for the next 25 years, more will be needed if the current high-growth plans for capacity expansion continue, and the world could run out by 2080.
The UST 10yr yield is now at 4.25%, up +10 bps from this time yesterday. Risk premiums are still rising. The key 2-10 yield curve is steeper, now at +50 bps. Their 1-5 curve is now iflat. And their 3 mth-10yr curve is less inverted by -7 bps. The Australian 10 year bond yield starts today at 4.28% and down -6 bps on Tuesday. The China 10 year bond rate is now at 1.66% and up +2 bps. The NZ Government 10 year bond rate is now at 4.54%, and up +14 bps from yesterday at this time.
The VIX volatility index is slightly higher again today.
Equity markets featured bounces from Monday's steep falls, but none of them made back all the losses. Wall Street is down -0.8% on the S&P500 in its Tuesday trade (update, now down -1.7%). That is well back from the morning rise of +3.8%, turned by those additional tariffs on China. Overnight, European markets were all up +2.5%. Yesterday Tokyo ended its Tuesday session up +6.0%. Hong Kong was up +1.5%. Shanghai rose +1.6% as the home team stepped in. However Singapore was down another -2.0%. The ASX ended its Tuesday session up +2.3% and the NZX50 ended up +1.0%.
The price of gold will start today at just under US$2980/oz, and up +US$14 from yesterday.
Oil prices have dropped -US$1.50 from yesterday at just over US$60/bbl in the US and the international Brent price is now just under US$63.50/bbl.
The Kiwi dollar is now at 55.5 USc, unchanged from yesterday at this time. Against the Aussie we are up +40 bps at 92.9 AUc and that's a ten month high. Against the euro we up +10 bps from yesterday at just on 50.8 euro cents. That all means our TWI-5 starts today now just on 65.6 and up +10 bps from yesterday.
The bitcoin price starts today at US$77,213 and falling, and down another -2.1% from this time yesterday. Volatility over the past 24 hours has been moderate at +/- 2.6%.
Join us at 2pm later today for the Official Cash Rate review, the first by newly appointed interim Governor Christian Hawkesby. A -25 bps cut to 3.50% is widely anticipated, but given the global turmoil, most of the focus will be on how they see those pressures playing out in New Zealand and how they will respond to them.
[Due to staffing holidays, the video version of this review will not return until April 28, 2025.]
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56 Comments
America is lost..
The world is lost
People's funds are getting lost
People with high debt will be lost...
The belief that money is a store of wealth
was always going to be lost at some point.
But you'll know it's really serious
when there's a tariff on bogroll.
Said it before to say it again when the electorate had been promised that “things” were going to be better for them but instead turn out to be worse, and quickly so, then all the American propensity for conspiracy and betrayal will come to the boil en masse.
I think you underestimate how strong his support is and how accepting thety are of it needs to hurt first before it gets better -- the woke left will always hate him and protest -- but in two weeks when the markets have recovered some of their losses - and more importantly companies have announced huge investment in America and many countries have negotiated Deals -- all way better than they were last week for America which is already happening -- his base will be even more bullish
and more importantly companies have announced huge investment in America and many countries have negotiated Deals
If you believe this all manages to get confirmed in a week after announcing tarrifs, the likes of which are still a moving target
I have some magic beans to sell you
no doubt some of it has been int the pipeline since his election -- people do hedge and prepare you know ask Warren Buffet!
The reality is people have played out these scenarios and looked at their options - and we are now seeing some of those -- others did not believe he would follow through or to this extent and are having to rethink a little -- but its pretty clear on a number of fronts that he is getting some of the results he wanted -- Border Security measures by Mexico and Canada -- massive increased spending on defence by European nations for starters
At one point people will click that he is not a complete moron- after all he has managed to take the most powerful office in the world TWICE !!
BTW What type of beans ?
no doubt some of it has been int the pipeline since his election
Anything in the pipeline now will have been so before his election.
but its pretty clear on a number of fronts that he is getting some of the results he wanted -- Border Security measures by Mexico and Canada
Also measures on the books since before the Trump presidency.
At one point people will click that he is not a complete moron
Definitely not a moron. But also not operating from a position other than his own self interest.
BTW What type of beans ?
Fava. Goes down well with a nice Chianti.
The world of just printing more FIAT and having ever greater debt enslavement to the owners of the banking sector, could never run for ever. Its a punish the conservative saver, and reward the speculative risk taker, aka a very crap model for the financially illiterate. On paper anyone in the same position as the US would have already defaulted or been forced into austerity years ago.
Those exploiting that position will be screaming. As they are, but change doesn't happen easily. The US needs to save more, spend less, employ more, make more as the reversal from globalism occurs. In short burn down the current trading and financial system and make new.
Hold into your hats. If you are over leveraged playing the specu game...good luck.
That's not just a great post, it's a fantastic post.
Will be interesting to watch those who need to fiercely blame Trump, so as to preserve their (restricted) worldviews.
I agree - I don’t disagree with what the Trump administration are doing as the path they were on was one of self destruction (ie they were going to bankrupt themselves unless they changed course). But not many people want to experience short term pain in or to create longer term sustainable/prosperity - those that were benefitting the most from the US bankrupting themselves are the ones now complaining the most.
Here’s a good chart of US deficit spending as % of GDP:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSGDA188S
We’ve been living in a period of wartime like deficit spending eg recent deficit is 6% of GDP! They need to at least cut this in half to avoid future national debt/interest expense issues.
As for the tariffs, if we can return manufacturing back to domestic western economies it’s going to be great for younger people - jobs galore! But then it will expose how overpriced our houses are relative to our productivity because the cost of our goods will be very expensive compared to cheap foreign labour (eg Asia) which will likely see inflation rise and interest rates to follow - forcing house prices down further. Importing cheap foreign goods in recent decades has resulted in low inflation/disinflation meaning RBNZ could keep rates artificially low and resulted in very high house prices relative to incomes. That process could now reverse itself over the coming years/decades.
But then it will expose how overpriced our houses are relative to our productivity because the cost of our goods will be very expensive compared to cheap foreign labour
I think you mean the reverse.
When we're paying $150 for a t shirt
Current house prices will seem cheap
No I don’t mean in reverse.
In real or nominal terms?
Shouldnt we be asking ‘why would a t shirt cost $150 if we produce it ourselves - are we that unproductive that we can’t provide clothing cheaper?’
In any term.
Our lives are awash with an abundance of goods subsidized by indentured servitude and exploitation that's out of our vision. So in a world where you can buy socks for $5 and a TV for $400, $500,000 to build a super mediocre house in NZ seems like a ripoff.
We will just have less stuff.
To clarify, are you proposing austerity in all things and all people, just to protect housing prices?
I'm not sure how you'd draw that conclusion.
I'm saying neoliberal globalism has made many things cheaper
And made many people wealthier
At the expense of the average worker in developed countries
And the cost of houses in developed countries is a marker for how much more expensive it is to produce physical goods here
And will continue to be, unless our labour is prepared to accept much less
Which they'll have to, if they have to produce more of what they consume
Agree - except I think we upped the 'values' of our houses as a way of affording ever-more debt with which to buy said cheap offerings from o'seas.
That was a Ponzi - and always had to stop.
Not much different to Ariadne really; trying to get rich without actually doing anything.
Some of those folk I regard as Yvill...
america owes m$32 trillion -- most of it due to buying cheap crap from China and Asia - huge defence spending and massive consumerism -- there have been decades of talk of how to fix it -- and ZERO action -- Trump promised these tariffs -- promised to reduced the trade imbalance and deficits and to bring jobs back -- it might be painful to start -- but there is no other solution been proposed or more importantly enacted for the last 40 years -
For all the continued media hype -- markets still crashing todays headlines despite the majority being in positive territory yesterday ...
America needs to take its medicine and teh sooner it does - re rampant consumerism and cheap imports -- the less painful it will be!
Most commentators here would like to see house ( and rent) prices at 3-4 times income - so they are affordable and our kids and grandkids can own their own property -- -but then vested interest comes along and the PONZI continues -- We will never have genuine affordable housing without some real pain -- but are we brave enough to accept it
If the current administration were serious about this - real action to reduce the deficit and emerge stronger - they would be talking about tax rises, not tax cuts.
You're fallen for one of the many narratives - there's so many it's hard to know the real agenda. Is it a negotiating tactic and tariffs will be reduced? If so, they won't raise much money. Are they replacing income tax with tariff income? If so, they can't negotiate them lower, they need to be higher. Is it to reduce imports and bring investment to the US? If so, tariffs will not raise as much as planned.
Is it simply a new powerful tool that Trump can wield to demand fealty from governments and companies alike? I see that one as likely and is an extension of his current bullying of law firms and the media - law firms are being pushed to refuse to work with his opponents with lawfare and open threats to remove access to government departments. Media access is restricted if they stand up to him. Next up, if your company does what I want I'll take your widget off the tariff list. If your government does what I want I'll take 10% off your rate.
The one thing that is clear to me - they are not serious about reducing the deficit. Any money raised from tariffs will mostly go to further tax cuts if they can pass them, and increased defense spending.
DOGE is removing spending left and right. Is that not reducing the deficit?
Not much, no. Barely scratching the surface at this point.
Edit: plus, the same goes - if they make significant savings I suspect it will go to tax cuts, not deficit cuts. If they are able to save enough to counterbalance the increase in defense spending and entitlements.
If you pay a visit to the US Debt Clock, Averageman, the Admin. #47's spendthrift intentions suddenly become crystal clear. My analysis was written back on March 6, 2025.
The intention is clear - Trump intends to throw money around just like he has done for most of his 'adult' life.
DOGE'S ACCOUNTING - and its magic tweak to the US Debt clock.
These billionaire geniuses have the power to miraculously wave a wand and transform an average total debt (including unfunded liabilities) of ~$500K per U$ citizen into a wealth figure of +$493,306 - fancy that - a net change in wealth of almost $1 million per citizen - just like that the U$ economy is not broken-arsed at all - no, no, it is now suddenly fabulously wealthy.
I regularly checked this site and always marvelled that it could be so honest in its disclosure, assuming that it was only tolerated because it might help the U$ focus attention on its crazy borrow-and-spend culture and perhaps even begin to encourage society to accept the fact that the entire economy is in a giant debt death-spiral.
Pre-DOGE on the US Debt Clock, the average total liability per citizen was close to $500K, and per taxpayer a mind-numbing $1 million.
DOGE addressed it alright - with a novel trick almost akin to alchemy - they term it 'HIDDEN WEALTH ASSET-BACKED DOLLARS' - the list below...
Precious Metal Reserves $1.2 trillion
Mineral Reserves $5.6 trillion
Real Estate $5.6 trillion
Land $74 trillion
Stock Market $50 trillion
Recaptured Assets $7.4 trillion
Total HIDDEN Wealth $167 trillion
Revised wealth per Citizen $493,306 - WOW!!!!!
I have to say, the $7.4 in "Recaptured Assets" had me stumped, and so I had to refer to Investopedia to decipher that one - it turns out that term refers to an asset in the sense that a seller has the right to purchase something back, just as you might do if you pawned your watch at a pawn shop.
You have the right to go back to the shop and purchase it at a higher price, as long as the dealer hasn't sold in on at a profit in the meantime - yep, why not add this in too - the more trillion we cram in as assets, the merrier we all will be.
DOGE added another touch while they were there remodelling - what a marvellous opportunity to promote their sterling work - look at that, they have added a D.O.G.E clock showing almost $1500 savings per taxpayer already!
Even the cute DOGE dog logo appears there too (top left), resplendently displayed. Note - my figures are different as they are just over 1 month old.
For the 33 days that was an increase in the national debt of $140.447 billion.
That works out to a $1.55 trillion deficit for 365 days.
With the drop in revenues from both tax cuts and a projected further decline in the health of the economy, many analysts are expecting the deficit to blow out to between $4-6 trillion.
Creative accounting on steroids - what could go wrong?
Col
well given the lack of impartial news these days - its hard not to simply make your own narrative based on what you see. I think they are clear about reducing spending -- the world may not like pulling massive amounts of Aid, contributions to the WHO and the WTA but its saving money
The massive cuts in government services DOGE is punching through -- will start saving money after what in America is a relatively small cost to lay people off compared to NZ and the EU
Sure its a tactic -- that's how the world works - its just normally done with a lot more politeness - English Tea and Muffins and a say old chap! But in reality its the same thing but 1000 times faster than the usual 10 years to a free trade agreement! -
Key /Ardern/Luxon -- India cna we have a fair trade agreement - India - can you take 100000 of our people hmmm NZ please buy our Milk and Beef -- India -please take our people - NZ - How about you come over here and study and pay us 100K for a useless Public Service Degree -- India -- do we then get citizenship NZ Yes its a deal ! How the world works but that was not done in Government press conferences -- it was all done with diplomats talking endlessly - next is the free trade agreement that's been in process 10 years!
Give it two weeks and then count the deals done- no point having the big stack and bullying the table with it! quite refreshing actually !
I'm happy to wait for the evidence to come in - if they can get the deficit down to the 3% target, or better, with minimal pain then that's great and maybe we can learn something from it. I will eat my words if so.
On the other hand, I'll be ready with my 'told you so'.
I'll be honest, I go back and forth between thinking Trump has some nefarious plan and remembering that he is barely able to continue a logical plan to the end of a sentence, let alone a Presidential term. In that case, the chaos makes perfect sense as his actions depend on whatever the last advisor told him, and no doubt they have conflicting aims.
It's not what they're doing, it's how that is the problem.
But history tells on them. The US exported Friedman's 'Free Market' policies of which globalisation is a part. Countries who refused to buy into it got trashed. Chile is an example of this. They used their muscle to get most if not all of the west, and a fair part of the east to conform to their model, and now they're saying they don't like the cost? For a start Trump has shown he is a moron, but the GOP? They have chosen not to challenge or correct him when the constitution requires them to do so. DCs headline is correct "America is Lost". There have been commentators for years in the US who have been telling them their system is broken. Their refusal to act to fix it has meant they have effectively built their own coffins. The blood bath is yet to come but come it will as the people realise just how much the establishment has screwed them. They'll blame everyone else of course as Trump is already doing. But it is now too late for much of anything constructive to fix it, although many will try.
Funny how ‘America is now lost’ as Trump attempts to fix the structural issues that caused it to become so lost.
So was it getting lost for decades before now but nobody was willing to correct its course to get back on the right path?
I think it was. The example of Chile is demonstrative. It sent a message to those who would wish to deal with America that it was to be done on their terms. Their 'anti-socialist' attitudes still reverberate through the population, yet many don't even understand it. But it has become a potent label of derision. In America at federal levels very few if any independents got into office and there were too few to ever challenge the weight of the Dems or the GoP. So the corrupt monster was always able to keep the irate screeches to a minimum.
An article we were pointed to a few weeks back pointed to US meddling in others politics in the 60s and 70s. The CPTPP shows how the US throws its weight around on trade.
Jobs galore…manufacturing jobs require consumers for the products they manufacture…where will the consumers be?
Mars
:)
PDK that is a brilliant reply 😂😂
Cheers - seriously, there's a precedent.
Get hold of a copy of Jared Diamond's Collapse.
The Greenland Norse settlement - imported high fashion from (warmer) Europe, and stained-glass windows for their churches. Very useful.
Then the ships stopped coming.
They retreated to one last farm and died out gnawing on the raw (they'd run out of firewood) hoof bones of next-year's flock. There was no next year...
That's Musk, sans deliveries from Earth... the mans a fool, that way.
The way the US is going... in China and India
Well said Averageman
The financial cold-war that the U$ was already fighting against China, has now been extended full on by #47 to the EU as well, and more specifically against Germany because it is the engine room of the EU economy.
Throw a spanner in the works there, and that is an existential challenge for the entire union - one that was already on death's row anyway - this will speed up the inevitable unless the EU can extract itself from its habit of following explicit instructions from the U$A for them to commit industrial/financial hare kare.
It should require only simple maths to know that a country that runs a huge trade surplus cannot win a one-on-one tariff war against a trading partner that runs corresponding deficits - particularly if that country has significant reserve currency status along with a belligerent hegemonic mindset. Surely a different approach is required.
As long as the RoW continues to buy the hegemon's debt, the U$ can export their problems, and kick the twin deficit (trade and Federal fiscal deficits) tin can down the road, whilst the public debt to GDP ratio races from 137% towards 200% in a drawn-out inevitable socio-economic trainwreck that only creates more total carnage.
There doesn't appear to be any hope for the EU, given their idiotic appointed EC executive's desire to blow some $800 billion on armaments, to guard themselves from an enemy that only exists in their minds. If they are dumb enough to do that, then there is ZERO hope for financial success.
The EU has spent nil net investment on their future for more than a decade - surely it would be a no-brainer to reinvent their model - one of huge net exports of goods to deficit countries like the U$. Trump's explicit policy is to wreck their economies with his tariff bludgeon.
Surely the EU countries need investment in the industries and technologies that it has lagged in - $800 billion would go a long way to addressing this problem, as well as lifting money velocity and creating jobs that directly help to create a sustainable economic future.
China has many options as it is a significant creditor nation at $2.9 trillion - in 3rd place behind Japan and Germany, both on $3.3 trillion - according to the World Population Review figures from 2023.
These countries have a mountain of capital to use to their advantage in Orange Man's trade/tariff war. Needless to say, the U$ languishes dead last in this list on a mind-numbing $-19.9 trillion.
China is in a prime position to fight this cold war and has already done the hard yards in infrastructural investment that makes it an efficient productive economy.
They could easily develop their consumer market to soak up more of their production, and along with diverting goods to other countries that are not trying to bludgeon them to death, they could weather the storm of cutting out the U$ as a trading partner altogether, if they persist with their cold war isolationist mentality.
U$ exports only account for 15% of their total trade anyway. If the above scenario happened, the big loser would be the U$ consumer, the country's industrial redevelopment, plus of course their supply lines, and essential raw materials.
China could introduce a minimum basic wage that would give every citizen in the country a decent standard of living and help to develop their consumer economy at the same time.
More than a year ago I wrote a piece on how basic income payments can not only enrich the entire nation but also eliminate the potential welfare trap as well.
https://globalsouth.co/2024/02/09/solutions-to-the-western-train-wreck/
...quote...
"In existing models, including within New Zealand and the U$, when someone gets a job, they usually lose some or all of their existing benefits – as such this disincentives them from finding a job. Basic income models are the polar opposite – they incentivise beneficiaries to work.
The basic income model also encourages new business start-ups by allowing them the wherewithal and the confidence to try to establish a business that they may have always dreamed of."
Meanwhile, the God-king is steadfastly holding course with massive deficit spending (likely 7-8%) along with planned blatant tax cuts that will benefit his dancing billionaire club at the expense of Mainstreet. The voters are slowly waking up to the fact that they have elected a president who is only going to increase the financialisation of an already terminally ill economy.
For the U$ economy, the 2024 POTUS elections were tantamount to a death row prisoner facing execution the following morning - he is asked which calibre of rifle he would prefer the firing squad to use.
Regards to all
Col
blow some $800 billion on armaments, to guard themselves from an enemy that only exists in their minds.
They have a hostile neighbor to the East, and a global hegemon who have been a conflict deterrent for some 80 years making noises as if most of the world is now on its own.
Would be foolish not to improve your own safeguards in such an environment.
With all due respect Pa1nter IMO what is "foolish", is for Germany to not accept the fact that full cooperation with Russia in all trade, and particularly energy, could have been hugely beneficial to their economy and to foster a peaceful coexistence in Europe in general.
With their proximity and Russia's vast resources, it is a no-brainer to go down the cooperative route rather than to follow the U$ instructions which have cost Germany billions and a large portion of their industrial might.
Russia has ZERO territorial ambitions in Europe. In fact, Putin wanted Russia to join NATO because they saw this as an obvious route to a peaceful and secure coexistence.
Needless to say, the Russiaphobic warmongering Western neocons wouldn't have a bar of it because of their Western obsession with creating the contrived enemies the need to justify their perpetual multi-trillion dollar war machine - the MIC makes billions out of perpetual warfare - all of this is cheerled by threats that don't even exist.
And the main driver of the forever wars? - the country that spends more money on 'defence' than the next 70 largest country's budgets combined.
No Colin, you're thinking like an economist not a Tsar. Putin's and Russia's wealth was available to them before any invasion of Ukraine. Despite the deflections, the invasion was about ego and power and nothing else. If Russia had bought into the modern economic theories that are floating around they'd probably be one of the wealthiest countries on the planet now. But corruption and other issues led to this.
Putin's and Russia's wealth was available to them before any invasion of Ukraine
Sitting on vast sums of wealth
Can't produce an indigenous car with technology newer than about 1985
"But corruption and other issues led to this."
Led to what, Murray?
Russia has one of the strongest balance sheets of any country on the planet - quite extraordinary, given the fact that much of the West has been trying to ruin them, particularly since the break up of the Soviet Union.
The principal reason they have survived is precisely because they haven't as you suggest... "bought into the modern economic theories that are floating around".
Their financial miracle is most notably, because they run their central bank as a public utility - ie, for the benefit of society not for thieving monopoly cartel owners of private banks.
There were two motives for Russia's SMO into Ukraine...
#1 To protect their Western flank which had been invaded by both Napoleon and Hitler with devastating consequences and to avoid ever having to fight another major war on their own soil.
#2 To clean up a Nazi cesspool on their border which has been causing havoc since the early 1930s - see the doco link below.
I would politely recommend you study the history of the Nazi presence in Ukraine, and why Putin had no choice but to clean it up. By the way, this doco was narrated and produced by the hugely respected American historian Oliver Stone.
https://watchdocumentaries.com/ukraine-on-fire/
I remain both shocked and amazed at the entrenched Russiaphobia in NZ, when Russia deserves as much credit for defeating Hitler as all of the other allies combined. They also suffered more casualties too, with an estimated 24 million killed.
I would politely recommend you study the history of the Nazi presence in Ukraine, and why Putin had no choice but to clean it up.
There's Nazi inspired groups in dozens of countries. Their existence isn't a valid reason to invade someone.
I remain both shocked and amazed at the entrenched Russiaphobia in NZ
You're not really. You're an Ameriphobe who likes bouncing off people with your alternate take on reality.
Just as when you say something like "with all due respect". No one who intends respect needs to lead a sentence with that.
"There's Nazi inspired groups in dozens of countries. Their existence isn't a valid reason to invade someone."
What an appalling comment Pa1nter.
The UN High Commisioner himself reported that before the SMO even began, the total number of victims of the hostilities just in the Donbas alone from 14 April 2014 to 30 June 2021 were between 42,500-44,500 victims.
Millions of people were displaced - was Putin supposed to turn a blind eye to a scale of carnage that was rapidly escalating into an all-out genocide of Russian ethnic civilians?
https://euromaidanpress.com/2021/07/19/un-releases-data-on-donbas-war-v…
Just as I expected - you won't bother to watch the documentary because you know that it will challenge your comfortable space.
I also recall how rudely I was attacked when I first ventured into your sandpit, last year.
If my memory serves me correctly, I received appalling personal attacks from both you and Yvil, where one of you claimed that I "wasn't even capable of wiping my arse".
Insults like this are like water off a duck's back to me, but then when you flag yourself as a Nazi apologist too, well, that's another thing altogether.
You got the "with all due respect" message right though - I would automatically preface any reply to an overt Nazi apologist in this way - especially one who has a history of hurling personal insults my way.
Hold on a minute...your justification for the recent invasion of Ukraine is that the first invasion of Ukraine lead to tens of thousands of casualties?
That carnage was Putin's carnage, and is not an excuse for him doubling down.
Please, mfd, listen to the history of the Nazi occupation of Ukraine from a highly acclaimed AMERICAN historian...
https://watchdocumentaries.com/ukraine-on-fire/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, the US had 35 bioweapon labs in Ukraine some of which were experimenting with plague, cholera, anthrax and other pathogens, in direct proximity to Russia.
US Undersecretary of State, Victoria Nuland, one of the dumbest and most dangerous neocons ever, acknowledged that there were US-sponsored biological warfare labs in Ukraine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As the 2nd most important 'diplomat' in the Obama regime, Nuland was also dumb enough to brag that the US had invested $5 billion in overthrowing the elected leader of Ukraine.
See - The Ukraine Mess That Nuland Made
https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
Note - this article was written by the since deceased investigative journalist Robert Parry who broke much of the story on the Iran-Contra deal shocker, and the CIA involvement in cocaine trafficking.
...quoted...
"Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014 “regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible US mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland, who pushed for the Ukraine coup and helped pick the post-coup leaders.
To sell this latest neocon-driven “regime change” to the American people, the ugliness of the coup-makers had to be systematically airbrushed, particularly the key role of neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists from the Right Sektor. For the US-organized propaganda campaign to work, the coup-makers had to wear white hats, not brown shirts."
"For her part, Nuland passed out cookies to anti-Yanukovych demonstrators at the Maidan square, reminded Ukrainian business leaders that the US had invested $5 billion in their “European aspirations,” declared “fuck the EU” for its less aggressive approach, and discussed with US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt who the new leaders of Ukraine should be. “Yats is the guy,” she said, referring to Arseniy Yatsenyuk."
Cheers
Col
As the 2nd most important 'diplomat' in the Obama regime, Nuland was also dumb enough to brag that the US had invested $5 billion in overthrowing the elected leader of Ukraine
And yet, on a whole the Ukrainian population are prepared to fight not to fall back under Russian control.
Quick question then: since the fall of the Soviet Union, how many new members of the Russian Federation are there? How many have left and never looked back?
Why should Russia be entitled to any of the USSRs vassal states?
What an appalling comment Pa1nter.
While it's sad it's a true comment, it's still true. Here's a list of them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neo-Nazi_organizations
So you're saying then, Russia is entitled to invade any or all of the nations with these organizations?
Millions of people were displaced - was Putin supposed to turn a blind eye to a scale of carnage that was rapidly escalating into an all-out genocide of Russian ethnic civilians?
They're Ukrainian civilians of Russian heritage.
Not sure when Russia created its own UN with one member.
You got the "with all due respect" message right though - I would automatically preface any reply to an overt Nazi apologist in this way - especially one who has a history of hurling personal insults my way.
You actually used the same phrase in your very first reply to me back in the day. And then called me a Nazi sympathiser shortly after. And again now.
Not sure I've every straight out called you an insult word, not really my style. But your inability to address most of my rebuttals to your takes, then throw a tanty and be beyond reason should speak volumes to the viability of your view.
I have addressed every one of your rebuttals, but I will not be drawn into your brazen attempts to put words into my mouth - that strategy doesn't even warrant a response.
I would suggest you check my reply to mfd above.
If you can't already see past these regime-change neocons and the appalling MSM lies then I am not going to waste any more of my time.
This is my last comment on this subject.
-starts with "with all due respect"
- thinks name calling and pearl clutching is an honest rebuttal
- declares and end to the conversation, won't entertain any further discussion (when someone wants to stop talking, they just stop, no need to announce it)
None of these are hallmarks of a sound position that stands up to scrutiny.
Good to see the spirit of robust debate and bidirectional conversation is alive and well!
This is a wild take. Russia's invasion has only made them less secure by growing NATO, including right on the border, and prompting Europe to rearm. Until Putin ordered the attack, the EU was quite happy to let their military dwindle away.
The USSR obviously paid a huge price in WWII and were instrumental. It's worth remembering that they were essentially allies with the Nazis in the attack on Poland, and for whatever reason Hitler seems to be the only world leader Stalin trusted - much to their cost. I don't see any reason why this history should mean turning a blind eye to Putin's attempt to rebuild the Russian empire.
Heard of Victoria Nuland?
Know who she's married to?
Do some homework
:)
Yes the infamous Non Aggression Pact. Two murderous dictators were hardly examples of good friends. Still Stalin made hay while the sun shone supplying the German war machine against the Allies and facilitating the transit of other supply such as Japan. Germany of course was then more than happy to fire it all back. Putin is a self proclaimed man of history and his ambition is at the very least, the return of all territory under Russian control as was once bordered by the Iron Curtain. Peter the Great created the Russian Empire. Three hundred years later, almost exactly, Putin the great sets about reclaiming it.
is for Germany to not accept the fact that full cooperation with Russia in all trade, and particularly energy, could have been hugely beneficial to their economy and to foster a peaceful coexistence in Europe in general.
They tried doing that since the early 90s. But the sort of power structure Russia inherited since the fall of the Soviet Union is rife with problems. That you willingly exclude from any of your line of reasoning.
So Germany etc stood by while Russia embarked in hostile actions against Georgia, Chechnya, and Ukraine (twice no less).
Europe's history has shown if you have an entity that continually makes forays into it's neighbors, they're unlikely to stop. Just as if you give your lunch money to a bully on Monday, they'll be back for it on Tuesday, as well as maybe swiping your sneakers and schoolbag.
Conflict deterrent?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
They've been the biggest thugs on the planet. By quite some measure.
But I agree with the final sentence...
Conflict deterrent?
Does not mean no conflict.
One hegemon will lend itself to less conflicts than a bunch of near peer rivals.
Interesting perspective on where tariffs are heading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABU9OoPJUfs
7 mins.
If you wish to trade with U.S. then you will need to impose the same tariff rates against 'the other trading block'.
104% tariff on all Chinese imports starting straightaway. Does that not mean a US importer with a shipment set to arrive worth say US$100,000 will need to stump it to the US government US$104,000.00 in order to clear it? Cannot imagine that sort of dosh floating around especially if the importer is purely an agent operating on a consignment basis. If ports can’t clear arriving cargo then they eventually stop incoming shipments. At that point tariffs become virtual embargoes.
At 104% it would indeed appear an effective embargo...but then it looks increasingly like that is the goal. I suspect that Trump has a false understanding of the capacity/capability of the US economy....and the tolerance of its population.
While the US may be best placed for autarky (short term) even they are not capable of complete disconnect from what the rest of the world provides. Our systems are now so complex that even an unavailable single item can undo them.
Aye, but for a nail etc. Would hate to be a customs agent in the USA right now. Must be a total nightmare of a business to run.
Looking at the US today, I think of a poem written many years ago by the black American poet Langston Hughes who died in 1967. Of course he had a different target in mind then, but the last verse of his poem Let America Be America Again still resonates;
Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers,
The mountains and the endless plain-
All, the stretch of these great green states-
And make America again.
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