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Opinion: David Chaston says no-one understands gold; those that say they do, understand it the least

Personal Finance
Opinion: David Chaston says no-one understands gold; those that say they do, understand it the least

Don't worry if you don't understand the movements in the gold price.

Fed Chairman Bernanke told the US Senate Banking Committee in July that "nobody really understands gold prices and I don’t pretend to really understand them either".

His country is headed for a debt default, its government unable to agree on a Budget, and its debt limit is approaching fast.

You would think the traditional response to this impending crisis would be that gold would reassert itself as a store of value.

But almost the opposite is happening.

Some of the world's central bankers - especially those in emerging economies - seem to be stocking up on the precious metal.

But in doing so they are taking horrendous losses.

Since mid 2011, they have 'lost' US$545 billion in value on their holdings.

Private investors have lost another US$60 billion.

Many 'smart' big money investors like George Soros have quit their holdings entirely. Others, like John Paulson have given up after taking a pounding in value.

Even others, like Warren Buffett, steadfastly refused to get involved in the first place.

Miners have a self interest in talking up its value; and that usually means talking up its scarcity - which is real.

But you need willing buyers who want more than willing sellers are ready to sell for 'supply-and-demand' forces to move the price up.

We are not seeing that.

We are seeing demand from the 'small fry' - the traditional Indian and Chinese buyers, and the apocalyptic Western 'investor'.

But none of that is enough to push the price higher, even when supported by the Russian and Venezuelan central bank buying.

Or a potential shutdown of the US Government, it seems.

Investors forget that Venezuela has more unmined gold reserves than just about any country. Of course they value it as a resource. But why would they continue to raise their holdings?

If I recall, large gold reserves didn't help the Libyan dictator in a time of severe crisis.

It didn't pan out for John Paulson either.

Like art, and other non-traditional investment assets, there may be a place for it in your investment portfolio. But it will cost you to hold it, and it may decline in 'value' (meaning you may only be able to buy fewer goods and services with it in the future than you could have when you bought it). And if things turn really bad, you can't eat it (but then again, you can't eat any other investment either). In a calamity, would you take gold for food? I suspect you would want to barter for more useful stuff.

The future may work out for investors holding gold, but it is hard to see a rational reason why that would be the case.

Investing in gold is pure speculation.

As per usual, be very wary of those that are certain what the future holds.

(If the embeded video below isn't showing, you can see it here.)

Precious metals

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Source: Kitco
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Source: Kitco
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Source: Kitco
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Source: Kitco

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19 Comments

I find it quite interesting following the Gold Bug community because they spend most of their time trying to understand paper bugs.

They(Gold Bugs) ask interesting questions like are the stock markets rigged?

Is it statistically possible for a free market to go up 9 days in a row?(Golden Jackass)

Will there be QE to infinity?(Jim Sinclair)

What do the hundreds of trillions of derivatives do? Can theses derivatives be used to hold markets in a grid? Who are the counter parties for these hundreds of trillions of derivatives?(Rob Kirby)

 Paper Bugs feel uncomfortable asking these questions.

Gold Bugs ask the big questions.

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The irony of the gold bug.

If half of what he believed were true, that markets are rigged, that gold prices are manipulated and the Fed will print to infinity - they plot to get rich by betting against the most powerful financial cartel the world has ever seen and plan for a collapse of society so large that it is almost certain the very gold they place their hope in would be forcibly removed from them.

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LOL.........yes,

a) if you buy gold it has to be in cash IMHO so there is no trace for Govn.

b) "I suspect you would want to barter for more useful stuff." yep, bugger gold if it gets really bad you need lead, copper jacketed.  Actually its not a bad investment, I recommend 22LR, very cheap and you can always use it to get bunnies to put on the table, if you believe its going to get that bad.

PS I think the Fed is stuck in QEing, I dont think they can get out myself, not for years. If they taper it all goes south and very fast. Though when a Republican President gets elected then yes.....bad.

Hilary for President!!!

regards

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Good thinking David.

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If a US debt default is so bad and they think Gold is a barbarous relic why don't they sell their 8000tons of gold and pay off some of their debt?

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Kiwi, if the US dumped 8000 tons on the market I don't think they would get much for it. I'm in the Bernanke camp when it comes to gold. I don't understand it's price movements and it has no real practical use and no cashflow. Fiat money and gold parted company years ago. Adjusted for inflation its worth just over half what it was in 1980. Sums it up really.

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If they think gold is a barbarous relic why don't they sell it before everyone else realizes its a barbarous relic and not worth anything?

Through all the debt limit crises that they have had over the years have they sold any gold?

Why are they holding onto the stuff?

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A paper weight for all that fiat currency?

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No. I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't know the answer. I'm just just waiting to see if anyone else can figure it out.

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A load of rubbish. 

The US dollar has value? Over time? Subjectively?

Money carries value through time and space. Gold does that better than any other good, interest not required.

Paper money divorced from asset values only has a 40yr history, and it's deflating already.

Cheers

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Even others, like Warren Buffett, steadfastly refused to get involved in the first place.

 

 Buffet had his clock cleaned in the silver market a while back. Read more

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Indeed he did......I remember well.

I think if people are looking to speculate on the dollar price of Gold it's a difficult game.

Stocks to flows are meaningless.

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The one guy who does understand gold is US fund manager Ken Fisher ... and he won't touch it with a 10 foot barge pole ...

 

... he argues that " scared money " sees value in gold on rare occassions throughout human history , and panic buys it to stratospheric levels ....

 

And then , as it becomes evident that the financial world didn't end , gold loses it's lustre ... crashing , then going into a decades long swoon ...

 

... or you could agree with Charles Drace here at interest.co.nz , and fill yer boots with the stuff , and wait for that $US 3000 / oz. price ..... $US 5000 even .... hell , the sky's the limit guys ....$US 7000 /oz ... if you wait long enough ....$US 10 000 !!! ..... and wait ....

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Gold "price" is irrelevant..........

Would you want to hold US dollars at the point that it would take a bid of 10,000 of them for an oz of gold? Thought not.

 

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I would happily keep all my investments in $US equities and property , if I was an American resident .....

 

.... the price of gold is totally irrelevant ...

 

So , you're 100 % wrong in your assertion !

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My point is that a monetary metal's price is irrelevant. 

At this point many are willing to exchange assets for dollars....not always a safe assumption.

Dollars are not money, carrying value through time and space.

Not saying anyone needs to "buy" or "sell" gold, only that it is a measure, a standard of value. So it's "price" is irrelevant.

At the moment currencies are deflating and central banks know this and so they ease.....

 

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Hmmmm.....

 

David Chaston says no-one understands gold; those that say they do, understand it the least

 

Such headlines serve to illuminate Chaston's lack of real world experience - internalised myths are not a foundation upon which to build a fortune.

 

I can unreservedly state this man understood the bullion markets together with many others.

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Stephen Hulme....well stated.

 

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ctnz.....sure.....paper money is deflating, quickly. 

All this talk of hyperinflation is proving wrong. Deflation is the real danger, as the Fed and BOE realize.

 

 

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