The merger between household Japanese car brands Honda and Nissan-Mitsubishi appears to be on the skids. Talks started last year, and by December it looked like "Nishondabishi" would come into existence in 2025, creating the world's third-largest car maker.
Now however, Nissan is reported to be calling the whole thing off. Nissan did not want to become a Honda subsidiary, and is again casting side-eyes towards Taiwan's Foxconn/Hon Hai Precision. The electronics giant and Apple iPhone original equipment manufacturer is serious about entering the global car market with electric vehicles brand, and has already launched a number of "Foxtron" prototypes of different models.
How that hangs together becomes apparent when you hear about the Taiwanese Luxgen (the name comes from "Luxury" and "Genius") brand of cars, which are designed and made by Foxconn. Like the Luxgen n7 SUV, which has an interestingly named Human Chain Edition model that sells for around $70,000 in Taiwan.
Luxgen is a sub-brand of Yulon Motors in Taiwan, one of the oldest and largest car makers on the island nation. Yulon was the first overseas maker to manufacture under licence Nissan cars, so that's the history perhaps that ties it all up.
Tesla sales collapse
Meanwhile, the airbags have deployed at Elon Musk's Tesla as the company's car sales in Europe crash.
I’ve never seen Tesla sales declines get this much pickup. $TSLA
— Carl Quintanilla (@carlquintanilla.bsky.social) February 6, 2025 at 2:14 PM
[image or embed]
Tesla sales in Germany are down nearly 60 per cent, and the they're not looking any less sickly in other European countries, like Luxembourg (!)
Not just in Europe either, but in other markets as well like Australia. It's most likely not all due to its largest shareholder and frontman's open embracement of the far right and other political shenanigans, but it's hard to see how a "swasticar" association is beneficial for the Tesla brand, in an already soft market.
Chinese car makers meanwhile, enjoy both a huge domestic market and subsidies for EVs. As a result, brands like BYD, Xpeng and Geely are raking it in. Taiwan's Foxconn will no doubt feel encouraged by the success of fellow smartphone maker (and competitor) Xiaomi in China, which is selling EVs hand over fist, US bank Goldman Sachs analysts reckon. Xiaomi's cars look great, like the stunning "sparkle ignited by the sky, blending passion and elegance" SU7:
Cars from China come with its own set of concerns, like worries about data security, but there's no doubting the often exuberant and at times, eccentric innovation by vehicle makers from the Middle Kingdom.
Like the "tank turn" parking by spinning the rear wheels in opposite directions, as demonstrated by a Denza Z9GT:
Other Chinese cars, such as some Zeekr models made by Polestar and Volvo owner Geely can do that too, along with 360 degree turns. Not that you should, for the sake of tyre life and the environment.
More importantly, Chinese car makers are implementing ultrafast charging for vehicles, meaning they can be topped up from 10 per cent to 80 per cent in about 10 minutes at DC stations that can provide such high rates. Whether or not it will happen, or how, remains to be seen, but Geely's Zeekr is said to bring an ultrafast DC charging network to Australia.
56 Comments
The BYD Seal I drove was great in most respects. A dealer I spoke to said the quality of BYD cars was way better than that of a certain very high-priced marque.
My father-in-law went to an expo in China around 10 years ago (he exports industrial machinery). No nibbles, sadly, but came back saying the Chinese would only need to lift the quality of their vehicles 5% and they'd catch up with everyone else, and then beat them on price.
I'm looking at a GWM myself, right now.
I personally am going to wait at least another 5 years before considering anything GWM, Saic, BYD, MG etc.
Having spent some time reading NZ mechanics' accounts of their quality - rust, software, wiring, parts, diagnostics issues - I get the impression they're still in their Hyundai Pony stage of the cycle, and haven't yet come up the chain the way Korea and Japan did before them.
They look nice, of course, but they give the impression they still have a way to go on quality and quality control (slash willingness).
Aside from the material quality, the other consideration is support. The obsolescence rate of some of these cars is fairly high, shorter lifespans and sales numbers means parts could be hit and miss over the medium term.
Although I'd take a Chinese EV over a European anything.
Car manufacturers fall into 3 rough categories
- high technology/performance. Mostly European cars, these are designed to stand out and be impressive. But as they're pushing the envelope, long term the reliability is pretty bad. Which doesn't bother the manufacturers, because their target market is affluent types who only own a car 3-5 years before throwing it out and getting a new one.
- economical with decent technology. These are averagely made vehicles but with close to bleeding edge technology, to win over the mid-entry level buyers. Think the likes of Nissan and Misty
- well engineered/reliable. Think Honda and Toyota. The cars are developed over longer cycles, and for high reliability, at the expense of having the latest and greatest
One of the best ways to determine which sort of car it is, is to look at used values, particularly over the longer term.
Personally I don't think that top category should exist at all.
Exactly, if I have to choose between a wackjob billionaire, or massive human rights abuses and genocide, I'll take the autist. You couldnt buy anything from the supermarket if you were trying to avoid the much more significant evils of Nestle. People are stupid. Musk is just the negative flavour of the month.
Could you expand on what you mean by " being legally approved to operate in self drive mode"?
There will always be a person that will be legally responsible for a vehicle in FSD (Full Self Drive) unles it is an empty vehicle being deployed to a job or returning from one. And even then, there will have to be a legal entity responsible for any potential legal issues arising (crashes, running people over, etc.). Although A.I. might put it's virtual hand up to take the blame.
AFAIC Its not really full self driving until I can drive myself to the pub, have a few too many beverages, stagger outside and flop into the passenger seat and tell the car to take me home, and not be worried about
a) the car not making it home because of roadworks, street closures etc or the car crashing itself.
b) drink drive checkpoints.. I'm a passenger, I should be able to be black out drunk if the car is actually "self driving".
Tesla FSD really isn’t that much more advanced than other carmakers (if at all). It’s just that Musk has been willing to stretch the truth and legality further than traditional (more conservative) carmakers, and not bothered about killing a few people along the way
Then again you do have his own actions and words to refer to rather than trying to split hairs very finely.
But it does beg the question as to whether there's a larger checklist of things required to be a Nazi rather than a milquetoast fascist. Many Nazis did none of the things the worst ones did.
The AFD, for whom Musk spoke in support, obviously having to treas a fine line with publicity vs open support of Nazism: https://www.politico.eu/article/top-afd-aide-dismissed-over-neo-nazi-sc…
Some of the reports were that Honda weren’t happy about the lack of progress being made with Nissan's turn-around plan, which might have driven the move to take them on as a subsidiary - Honda have engines/motorcycles/marine/contract design and other divisions to help spread any load. What do Nissan have to bring to the table beyond EV experience and a strong sports-vehicle division?
China's car industry, and Taiwan's, are evolving incredibly fast, and maybe the perceptions of value have something to do with that. I've bought Xiaomi products in the past as typically do what it says on the tin, and represent well-designed good value. That they have a very firm grasp indeed on manufacturing processes and appropriate quality, what happens next with a player like this is going to be interesting. The SU7: 268 to 664 Hp, as little as 2.78 seconds 0-60, and a range of around 800kM. Entry level model is under GBP25,000. And the YU7 SUV is to follow this year. It looks pretty good, too.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/xiaomi-has-unveiled-its-tesla…
https://cnevpost.com/2024/12/10/xiaomi-shares-more-images-yu7-suv/
What do Nissan have to bring to the table beyond EV experience and a strong sports-vehicle division?
Would that be the new Z that's riding on a platform that debuted 23 years ago under the Stagea, or the 17 year old GTR that's riding on an evolution of a platform that debuted 23 years ago under the Stagea?
While it's a great platform it signifies the rot that set in a long time ago. I admire Nissan for attempting to go deep with EVs so long ago but they fumbled what lead they had and now they're a walking corpse. It's such a shame to see their fall over the past 15 years or so.
Old platforms they may be, but they're still good and the Z is still winning awards, beating out the likes of Porsche: new doesn't always mean better - the Z in particular benefits from being much more mechanical than electronic, and that makes it fun if you're after involvement. The GTR is just an incredibly efficient tool for going fast, but like a lot of high performance stuff, just not that involving as the car has to shield the driver from the brute force of what's going on in the engine bay and drive train.
However, you do have a definite point: the degree of development, and good bread-and-butter cars that make the company profitable, are sadly lacking. I've driven a couple of recent Nissan hatches and SUVs and they were either wheeled Valium or actively unlikeable.
Next versions of VW EVs coming out later this year - smaller car end. ID1 and ID2.
They are leaving their run late clearly but will be interesting t see what they look like and what the pricing looks like.
Think they might appeal to part of the market who still don’t really want to buy Chinese for a variety of reasons or a Tesla for one main reason……
It’s probably close to the last chance saloon but they might just do it.
M.
although it’s true that Hitler commissioned Ferdinand Porsche to design the first car before the war, VW as a mass manufacturer was essentially set up by the allies under British army Major Ivan Hurst to help German industry get back on its feet after the war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen
I cant help but feel some people are going to absolutely get burned by buying chinese cars right now unless they are in it to hold onto them for 10 years. China has a strategy as it did with solar and smartphones of funding hundreds of brands through state subsidies. There are 500 EV brands in china - most of them unprofitable. Right now these car manufacturers have too much capacity and are litterally putting them anywhere in the world that will buy them. But how many of those brands will last another 3 years.
You think that because its in china there costs would be low, but thats no longer true anymore. Chinese manufactuers will need good quality engineering to compete longterm. If you look at teardowns of chinese manufactuers like BYD they are not particularly well cost engineered. They are not winning on cost/performance they are winning on cheap money and red ink. Who will survive?
Crash impact laws mean it will never get properly registered here. Sop someone might buy it but not for general road use.
Really, it's here for promotional purposes only - to raise interest in the brand (and maybe move the discussion away from what the company boss is getting up to at the moment).
We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.
Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.