By Alex Tarrant
"That's why I’ve stuck to my guns, and I haven’t campaigned on one thing and done something different."
That was the message this morning from Prime Minister John Key as he talked to TVNZ Breakfast host Corin Dann about the National Party's manifesto.
Key and Dann had been discussing former National leader Don Brash's comments on National's economic policies, with Dann saying Treasury had recently raised similar concerns, around whether the government could afford Kiwisaver and interest-free student loans, "and then of course Standard and Poor’s. So there’s quite a big weight of argument that New Zealand isn’t confronting its big problems," Dann said. See a full report here on Brash's weekend speech.
“Firstly you’ve got to say we have confronted a lot of that," Key said. "We’re spending less as a new budget increase than for a very, very long period of time – we’re spending about a third of the increase that [former Labour Finance Minister] Michael Cullen did."
The constraints the government had put on itself were significant, Key said.
"We also undertook one of the most substantial tax changes in 25 years, where we raised GST and lowered personal taxes to try and fix that imbalance. We actually acknowledged the imbalances that are in the economy, and that’s one of the reasons why we set up the Savings Working Group, it’s one of the reasons why we’ve got the Welfare Working Group," he said.
Some points commentators had made were fair and needed addressing, Key said, "and you are going to see the government addressing those".
"It’s probably the degree in which the prescription needs to be rolled out. Not that there isn’t an agreement that our external liabilities, in other words how much money we owe foreigners, [are] too high," Key said.
Dann then asked whether National would including the sorts of policies touched on by Brash and Treasury in it's manifesto next year, such as privatisation and welfare reform.
“I’m not going to unveil that today, but what I can say is when I came in as Prime Minister in 2008, when you go back to the campaign, you’ll remember Labour ran a campaign about trust," Key said. "The argument was about, ‘you can’t trust John Key and you can’t trust the future National government’.
"Actually in the two years that we’ve been in office, and I’m sure it will be proven to be the three years, you can trust us. If we say we’re going to do something, we’re going to do it. If we don’t, we don’t," he said.
"So when we roll out that manifesto in 2011, [that] will be what we do if we’re given the privilege of being the government between 2011 and 2014.
"That’s why I’ve stuck to my guns, and I haven’t campaigned on one thing and done something different.
"In the end I’ve got to look New Zealanders in the eye and, some of the things we'll campaign on -- they won’t like all of them. Hopefully they like the overall direction and the leadership we show, but they won’t like every individual piece – they never do with any political party," Key said.
"But at least they know we’re men and women of our word," he said.
Cunliffe: 'Two classic examples'
Labour Finance spokesman David Cunliffe said there were two "classic examples" of Key not keeping his word. "‘We won’t raise GST while running a deficit’ - well they ran a deficit and they raised GST," Cunliffe said.
A second was that Key had said the tax package would be fiscally neutral, "well minus half a billion in the first year..."
"I would say that’s two classic examples. I would have thought, more generally than that, he has a reputation of just saying what people want to hear," Cunliffe said.
(Updates with Cunliffe comments)
60 Comments
I've stuck to my guns, says Key?
No you haven't John.
You came into politics calling Working For Families "Communism by stealth" which is precisely what it is.
It becomes clearer each year that this policy is driving profound change in small business profits, willingness to work overtime, people taking lower stress lower income jobs than they are capable of doing, structuring of investments etc etc as the majority of the middle class try to maximise their "tax credit" whilst bashing "benefit bludgers" oblivious to the fact that communism by stealth has added them to the ranks of beneficiaries.
If John Key wants to stick to his guns, he needs to do one of two things.
(1) Abolish Working For Families as it is, in his own words, communism by stealth.
(2) Come out and say that by keeping policies such as this, he has decided to move us officially into communism. Campaign on that basis.
Then we at least know where we stand. Chances are the masses would actually be keen to know that they will be looked after "for life" with option (2) whereas the rest of us can then discreetly leave the country.
Talk about extremism in your words....Key isnt a communist....Stalin maybe....
Overtime & stress, wierd I know but ppl want a quality of life....Im happy to do overtime where its really needed but Im not ruining my home life pulling 50 ~ 60 hours a week thanks....or killing myself with stress....life quality its called.
Key campaigned wih keeping WFF, sure its somewhat over the top....buttahts what he campaigned on....ACT got what 3%?
Please do leave......less drivel.....
regards
Ummm he defined something as communism then kept it.
Therefore, there are only two outcome phrases and these are "communist" or "hypocrite". Take your pick.
Whilst I take your point about not wanting to work 60 hour weeks, what if I want to work 60 hour weeks? Should I really be paying for you to not do so?
Eventually, everyone decides to be "you", ie, get the cash but not do the 60 hours.
The final destination is everyone ends up doing the same (very little) and getting the same (a good whack, for a bit, then very little once everyone is a taker rather than a giver).
If you have a word for that other than communism, I'd be intrigued to hear it.
You are not paying for me not to do so....the tax systems is the tax system....while yes it needs work I tend to work on the principle that Im lucky enough to be blessed with the Intelligence to hold down a good job...so I pay some extra tax....its better than the alternative...ie only being bright enough to sweep roads...
WFF is a head scratcher for me, it seems way over extended....and I also have concerns its sending the wrong signals long term...but then Im sure Cullen knew exactly what he was doing...and went as far as he could to buy votes....I would certianly entertain some logical and transparent thought on reducing teh scope of WFF....I suspect that National touches it at its peril however....and again having national in power with WFF is better than labour with WFF.
regards
He also campaigned on lifting NZ wages towards some kind of parity with Aussie at some distant time in the future.
Lift the average NZ wage to a reasonable living/working wage and there is no longer any need for in-work tax credits (i.e. WFF). Introduce a 0% tax bracket to say the first $30,000pa .. or get rid of GST on food, electricity and some of the other essentials - and again, no need for in-work tax credits. There are more ways than one to skin a cat.
However if there is nothing to supplement those on low wages then there will be alot of these low paid workers leaving their employment to join the unemployment/job queue for a better wage. The shortages would be quite serious for many employers (catering, cleaning, tourism, retail etc.).
Face it - WFF is a low wage economy/employer/employment subsidy.
Stupid - I agree - but necessary as well.
PS by the way ... it's only costing $2billion pa - whereas super costs near $8billion pa. The last thing NZ needs is the flood of young people across the ditch. WFF also served to somewhat stem that flow, I suspect.
that's old Labour, Kate.
Relevant in the 'Nordy era, or to Dr MacMillan, perhaps.
This is a different paradigm - you have to get it sooner or later.
Neither level (of income) is sustainable.
The scrap over who gets what part of the cake, just ran into the half-way-through-the-cake point.
It's kind of frustrating to see the dissonance/denial/non comprende from what was 'both sides'.
You get to understand how the fellow chopped down the last tree on Easter Island - and the last Greenland Norse got to chew on the last raw hoof-bone.
They refused to see it coming.
Probably because it would be inconvenient.
Shatter the odd dream.
Your end will get it before the other, but boy it's a long wait.......
I suggest you read the Clint Smith report to Parliament, on Peak Oil. See what he says about tourism. etc......
You campaigned on a lot of things and have delivered none;
- More People are moving to Australia
- RMA still exists
- The Budget is nothing revolutionary
- Maori party get everything they want – You back Hone
- You bailed out SCF
- Tax Restructuring Group delivered nothing
- The catch-up with aussie groups recommendations are ignored
- National Bike Track is a dream
- GST up
- Give your rich mates a break with no gift duty next year
- Hidden Inflation rampaging
- Unemployment up
- Give into big Hollywood
But you still smile like a cheetah, kiss children and do nothing.
Got to meet Clinton and call Obama - Bonus
Running a tinpot province of China could not be any easier.
I accept his argument if we only look at the printed promises pre the election...but didn't Key mention the "baby farming" going on....and did he not also have something to say about the property bubbles........
Unfortunately Corin Dann did not ask Key..."what black swan events would see your govt urgently act to reduce the borrowing and the size of the state benefit system".....
This is what Key has to be asked.....only then will he say that there are situations where a govt must act in a manner that could well be quite at odds with promises made.
An example would be a rapid collapse of the euro and a hefty increase in the cost of servicing the foreign debts...another would be a Korean pen war....a third would be an outbreak of 'Foot and Mouth'.....
Once he gets round to saying "yes that would mean an abrupt change of direction" etc etc...then it is possible to ask..."how bad must the situation get before govt accepts we have a financial market 'black swan event' going on right now?"
If you spent half the time geting informed, that you do chanting the mantra, you'd be a happier chappie.
Neither major party is the problem - they were both voted into office by hip-pocket greed. Short-term, self-centred greed.
Tax cuts.
For instance.
Economic Growth
for another.
If the populace is silly enough to buy those, it gets what it deserves.
Neither party (nor Act, that's for sure) has the answers, and if they did, they'd be voted out by an immature, dumbed-down populace.
"The unfortunate reality is that Prime Minister John Key has failed so far to clearly articulate what needs to be done, to get New Zealand back on a sound growth path. Recall when he replaced De Don Brash as leader." Hugh Pavlevitch etc 29/11/2010
your comment here sounds pretty naive to me, Hugh, as do many others here on John Key...it's as if you all think he has some secret agenda ...to do what?..purposely wreck the country?....what exactly do you rocket scientists all think should be done to put the country back on track...what is the secret formula for NZ, that you know and Key and his cabinet doesn't?
'Fess up...there is no secret formula and you lot know it ...instead of falling into the trap of the genetic disposition of Kiwis which is to " always knock" why don't you stump up with exactly what you would do that's any different than the way Key is running the game?
Rob - I think it's like the bible. (we'll leave king james out of it this time)
I think you just have to believe in a narrow creed of some kind.
Economic growth can go on forever in a finite world.
for example.
Then, if times get tough, and it's looking shonky, you don't address the possibility that your mantra is flawed - you pray harder and repeat the mantra faster....
They'll be out by their survey pegs flogging their backs with old bits of rope soon.
Gosh, Hugh, you really are a one trick pony , aren't you ?
firstly , the Nats a.k.a john Key have only been in control for 3 years so your rave about my 6 years of somnabulence is irrelevant !
secondly, this subject is about John key's governance; not your pet hobby horse and self congratulatory stuff regarding urban planning...me?..i prefer urban grooves..esp, the ones that are down to the bone!!
Are we surprised that this National government blew the golden opportunity of the GFC to enact some change in NZ's economy ............ To un-Cullenise the dopey shit of his predecessors ; to re-balance the economy from consumption / debt & house investments , to production / saving & businesses as investments ........
...... As pathetic as National were in opposition for 9 years , they are proving to be equally pathetic as a government ........... At least they're consistent !
[ I have to disagree , Hugh , as quietly as National tip-toed through 9 years of opposition , they allowed Clark & Cullen to foist some abominable legislation upon the populance . National's silence was not funny .Oppositions are meant to keep the incumbent government on their toes . ]
Pardon me : But I want the best outcome for all NZ'ers ....... And that is not mountains of debt owed to Aussie banks by a few Kiwis who want to minimise the tax burden placed upon them by Michael Cullen . .......... Nor the gutting of much of the middleclass to pay for Cullen's plethora of new welfare packages ..............
Luckily , I didn't vote for JK ........... He seemed too wishy-washy to ever come up with an original idea .
Know wotcha mean ! I want New Zealanders to be more financially literate , and a lot less indebted to banks . I want them to be strong and independent , and to not run to Nanny state for assistence or a bail-out , if the going gets tough ............ what is your definition of the best for NZers ?
I somewhat agree, however where I disagree is the extremes your political view point take these statements / ideals to. Also I differ a bit in my approach, for mom and pop investors, I believe that the financial sector is to opaque and complex and stacked if favour of the big guys but could be made a lot more transparent, safer and easier to understand via regulation on for instance how prospectus is is done, how compnay reports are presented etc. After the 1930s depression good regulation was put in place and it was enforced, with Reagan it was mostly dismantled and then what was left was not enforced....neither of these should have happened and then these bailouts would never have been needed....
regards
John Key did not really offer much to begin with. His has been a weak tenure of "smile and wave" politics (The upper middle class mum: "I don't know what he has done, but what a nice chap... he once slept in a state house you know, and is at all the disasters..."), to borrow suitably from the megalomanic penguins from 'Madagascar', building on a campaign of similar bumper-sticker deep policies. Obama's wake stirred a demand for change from incumbency, in New Zealand's case sending us ironically to the neo-con side out of boredom of nothing (bad) happening under Helen, as America found the center-left. We are no better off than we were under Labour, but far more divided socially and unstable economically– case in point, the comments on this thread about 'Communism by stealth' make me cringe; what is this, the 1970s? If Key has done anything right it is not taking the large sledgehammer (sure he has given Brownlee and English the smaller one) to the social contract of give and take that defines our society. We all want the ambulance to come when we fall over, and we are almost all happy to chip in. Too much Faux News (intended, and appropriate spelling) for some of your readers! Anyway, short answer, promised little, delivered less, but with a National-Act alliance, perhaps less is a good thing?
Yeah.... where are all the balloons, and aspirational promises, please tell me what I should be.
Preferably make me rich, and a 'proud-kiwi' again... come on! This is all sooooo slow..... two years now....
If you don't I'm going to splurge on credit!
Isn't this sort of 'sporting hero' stuff
Good governance/appropriate regulation, communicated well. Should be enough.
Is this better than the previous administration?
Sod the party political dribble - its a distraction.
I've got a different take on things. Sure John Key comes across as populist and we question the effectiveness of his government. Ok, fair enough, in terms of results.
But how much chance of sensible policies have we got if they adopt a further right position?
National and John Key have quite correctly realised that this country, rightly or wrongly, will not tolerate the kind of policies that others such as Don Brash would promote as being in this country's best interests.
It is therefore better to have a very gentle tug to the right under this government than to face a further slide to the left.
Maybe one day the population will wake up and we'll have another shot at some more serious reform. But until then I'd rather take what I can get.
Btw it would be very helpful indeed if we had a better right wing coalition alternative to ACT. What a shambles they have become.
Generally I agree....my issue is there is no real center party...on the left we have labour that says its a centre left party but only says taht because it wont get enough votes.....and on the right we have the same thing....
So what we really need is a true centre party......that doesnt sit in the middle publically while enriching its true electorate in the back ground, I guess its a real middle class party....
regards
Mr Key works with current trends and in the absence of a trend, waits for one to develop. Why should we be surprised or angered that such a mindset does not adequately prepare the country for a black swan? That kind of thinking can be forgiven: Most of us are guilty of it in our investment (or even our private) lives. (Except for you of course, Wolly.)
What can't be forgiven is ignoring inevitable realities (eg peak cheap oil) simply because noone can agree exactly when (not if) it will happen. It leads to tragic 'kick the can' policies. Mr Key is sure-footed and pragmatic once a situation develops, a mafia 'cleaner' if you will. But what about when the current data stops short of a trend?
That's what I'm waiting for: someone who can point out the destination as well as the optional pathways. I haven't given up on Mr Key to provide the country with that kind of leadership--and fast. He's just got to stop acting like an 80s trader with 3 phones and take the dinghy out for a bit of a breather, instead. He's got it up top but has he got them down below?
National are running the country through focus groups.
Thats why they did not put up the duty on alcohol when they did tabaco.
Thats why his theame song is "I'm a nowhere man living in a nowhere land" I do feel sorry for him though every time one of his cacus put there foot in it. He is the smiling face of reasonable surrounded by clowns.
National need to grow some and make the hard decisions, you can blame MMP all you like (but thats what we have) stronge leadership from a strong leader is what will win the next election. Aunty Helen lover her or hate her was a strong leader. That kept Labour in power till they run out of ideas problem is National has no ideas so it is more of the same.
What a load of crap.
He's just another politician - you can tell when they are lying - their lips are moving !
Remember the promise that we would not be a world leader on climate change but a fast follower. He repeated this constantly on the hustings yet when he got to Wellington we were immediately lumped with a "World Leading" ETS - All sectors - All gases as that idiot Smith constantly tells us.
Breathtaking in it's stupidity scale and transactional costs.
Vote Climate Change is over a Billion $
A tax on exporters - and they can't even calculate net emissions from agriculture ( That wouldn't be fair - Smith ) but NZ got net emissions into the Rio convention back in 1991 to address the rural nature of our exports which transfer CO2 ex the atmosphere offshore.
So we now have civil servants arranging meetings ( AK Herald Sat ) to address the transition for cut rose growers under the ETS.
We are in hock to lenders for $ 246 Billion ( Source RBNZ ) and in this parlous state I doubt cut rose growers ETS is a priority
On this one at least Key has straight out lied to us and was immediately captured by the green vote. Trying to be all things to all people and so we end up with lowest common denominator politics and a fast track to the bottom of the OECD.
Smith should be sacked for this absolute travesty and Key has a damn cheek making this patently false statement !
Dear John ...oh how I hate to write...Dear John...well I'm sure you know how the rest goes.....What do you say about a man whose baby kissing is about as disingenuous as The Baby eating Bishop of Bath..n Wells...banking with a smile and a stab.
I suspect ..dear John you were installed by the wider populous to do a job....as a reformist....given the ruthless nature of your background.
It has been your folly to act the part of politician or take on rolls that seek wider approval of your persona ......
As an example Lange for all his shortcomings.... had more personality in his left foot than you will have in your entire career as P.M. ( may it be as short as it is forgettable)Muldoon more sincerity in the raising of a cheek ( at least you knew if you pissed him off) than you carry in that deadpan dial of yours.
Just do the job we installed you to do...stop pissing around trying to be everything to everyone....and by reforms I didn't mean raise GST to 15% that was a gutless thieving tatic I could have expected from Cullen.....still you do have that in common with most politicians..the gutless easy way ..I mean.
Dear John ...oh how I hate to write....in short you have been a complete disappointment.
C'mon guys he has largely done what he said , and not done what he said he would not do like Privatize Kiwibank and no Capital Gains tax .
On balance his tenure has been hamstrung by the worst recession in our lifetime , so he has been forced to run a deficit , just too keep the bloated Labour-jobs -for pals-Public Service in their jobs .
He could not tinker with Working For Families which was started by Labour and had become a handout bigger than the Benefit , and which if removed would have caused hardship. The problem is that WFF is too generous and is a cost that is borne by really productive people who do not receive it .
The truth is that WFF should never have been implemented , its a highly complex scheme that disadvantages young productive Kiwis who have not started families yet , and of course they have buggered off to OZ .
He did not BAIL OUT SCF , it was Helen Atilla the Hun and Cullen who set up the bank g'tee scheme in October 2008 long before the General Election.
He is also hamstrung by this stupid MMP system which was ''designed by Labour to rule from the grave " and means he has to appease the Maori party to keep them sweet.
The Greens would be dead if we got rid of MMP and the Greens tabled and got through more stupid and idiotic Bills in Parliament under Labour than the entire past 100 years of NZ history . They got the Smacking law , the ETS , they stopped us importing Diesel vehicles just when the entire European zone moved en- masse to diesel engines which do not produce CO2 like petrol engines and are more efficient and cheaper to run .
well Boatman..with that kind of backdrop he will be completely forgiven for not achieving anything at all then won't he...!and you will have no sleepless nights as he will be reinstalled just for participating...and isn't that what we do round here.
You Boatman should not underestimate this guy's willingness to get things done provided it meets the agenda the wider public are not yet privy to......but as you say from the grave his boot prints will be clearly stamped on your diminishing middle class back.
Boatman - MMP was a mass reaction to political arrogance - remember that.
Doesn't matter from whom, and indeed it was aimed at both major parties.
ETS - don't tell me we've another who denies anything which might impact his hip pocket.
Makes one wonder about whether there would have been mass denial, stirred by paid lobbyists, if the only replacements for CFC's were expensive replacements.
Maybe the ozone hole wouldn't have existed then, either.
Have I missed the point? Is it simply that anything which is a limit or a cost, simply can't be?
Because who says so, again?
If ShonKey and Dippers hadn't been caught on tape LYING to the people of NZ about their intentions with regard to Kiwibank, it would long ago have been sold at cutrate prices to their rich mates so those mates could then on-sell it to the HooFlungDung Finance Corporation of Shanghai for a massive profit...with lucrative BoD positions for the future.
Being sprung in a barefaced lie is the ONLY reason they haven't already tried to sell Kiwibank.
And ShonKey fled overseas like a terrified little girl in the hope that he wouldn't cop any direct fallout when his minions dropped the hammer on SCF. Pathetic gutlessness to the nth degree.
WFF? The only thing wrong with it is that it's been rorted to death by LAQC-lovin' baby boomers. Rorting baby boomers such as the Minister of Finance. You know, the guy who was gaming the system in order to scam an extra $50k p/a accommodation allowance for himself as he resided within his million-$ family mansion? The Minister of Finance who was telling people to tighten their belts and forget about income increases because of the recession, while he planned tax cuts for the wealthiest and tax increases for everyone else?
That's John Key's Minister of Finance. John Key's deputy. The man who plotted with John Key to sell Kiwibank as soon as possible, and who only backed down after he was caught on tape telling the party faithful behind locked doors that "Of course we'll sell Kiwibank", even as his fearless leader John Key was standing before the cameras and the NZ public and stating that National had no intentions of ever selling Kiwibank.
And MMP. Hated by Nat fangirlies because it didn't stop Labour from winning three elections in a row. But it would be sadly missed by those same fangirlies should it ever be scrapped and National lose another bunch of elections. Because, you know, National never lose because the public don't vote for them. It's because of MMP, one way or another.
But is National better or worse than Labour? No. Same party, different banner.
A lot of preaching going on, led by the master pastor, Wolly,who won't buy any cut-back [like the biggest electoral bribe in NZ history with the national super] affecting him, but wants to slash and burn others. If people are really worried about reigning in the welfare state look no further than the biggest hand out of all, but no can't go there can one?
On re -reading maybe I sound like an apologist for John Key's shortcomings , but the alternative of a government under Phil Goff is too ghastly to even contemplate .
To get shaken down by another leftwing government is more than I could tolerate and I will bugger off to Austrlalia.
I think Key has done a good job with the current economic conditions. Out of many good things he has done if I could mention a couple of things I would like to see change on these would be, taxing heavily foreign residential property ownership, getting behind the Auckland CBD rail loop.
JK in a live chat with stuff tomorrow. It's midnight my time, but might be a good chance for regular posters to get some answers from the horses mouth - peak oil, housing, government debt etc.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4402359/Live-chat-PM-John-Key
Ah well...i s'pose we can scrape out another prize for you, DC, for getting your answer half right...and as for you, agent Gummy..no scrambling to get on any boats...we here at the Familia paid good dough to place you as a " mole" up there in the Phils. so you're staying put.
after all, if you jump.. how are we gonna keep our steady supply of those photos you send us...cute they are...dat's for sure!
Point of order your honour, alias Malarkey, I am in no property pyramid scheme, unless you count properties bought years ago as the base of a pyramid. Have no debts either your honour, so plead not guilty. But if your honour is of a certain age don't be hypocritical by collecting the weekly handout sent to you.
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