There are 24 new cases of Covid-19 in the community, including three that were announced on Monday.
Of these cases, 18 are in Auckland and six in Waikato.
Seven of the cases are unlinked. All the unlinked cases are in Auckland.
An additional 48 cases are expected to emerge from existing clusters in coming days.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern also announced Cabinet has confirmed vaccine passports will become available to New Zealanders next month.
People will be able to access their passport using their phone. They can also print it out.
Ardern said it will be necessary to enter large events like festivals.
Cabinet is still consulting on whether it’ll be required to enter hospitality venues.
People won’t need to show their vaccine passports to enter supermarkets or access essential health services.
Ardern confirmed there will be exemptions for people who can’t be vaccinated under limited circumstances.
She said the Government is still working through whether one will need to be fully vaccinated (having had two doses of the vaccine) or fully immunised (having waited at least two weeks after the second dose) to be given the all clear to enter large events.
Here is the latest from the Ministry of Health:
| Cases | |
| Number of new community cases* | 24 (including one historical) |
| Number of new cases identified at the border | Two (including one historical) |
| Location of new community cases | Auckland (18); Waikato (6) |
| Location of community cases (total) | Auckland (including four cases in Upper Hauraki; all of whom are in the same household) 1,355 (1,068 recovered); Waikato 8 (1 recovered); Upper Hauraki 1; Wellington 17 (all recovered) |
| Number of community cases (total) | 1,381 (in the current community outbreak) |
| Cases infectious in the community | 17 (59%) of yesterday’s 29 cases have exposure events |
| Cases in isolation throughout the period they were infectious | 12 (41%) of yesterday’s 29 cases |
| Cases epidemiologically linked | 17 of today’s 24 cases are linked. |
| Cases to be epidemiologically linked | 7 of today’s 24 cases. Investigations are continuing to determine a link. |
| Cases epidemiologically linked (total) | 1,341 (in the current cluster) (18 unlinked from the past fortnight). |
| Number of sub-clusters | 15 epidemiologically linked subclusters. Of these, seven are active, one is contained and seven are dormant. There are 14 epidemiologically unlinked subclusters. Of these, five are active, one is contained and eight are dormant. |
| Cases in hospital | 32 (total): North Shore (4) Middlemore (14); Auckland (13); Waikato (1) |
| Cases in ICU or HDU | Seven |
| Confirmed cases (total) | 4,050 since pandemic began. |
| Historical cases, since 1 Jan 2021 (total) * | 165 out of 2,234 since 1 Jan 2021 |
| Contacts | |
| Number of open contacts being managed (total): | 1,262 |
| Percentage who have received an outbound call from contact tracers (to confirm testing and isolation requirements) | 83% |
| Percentage with at least one test result | 74% |
| Locations of interest | |
| Locations of interest (total) | 149 (as at 10am 5 October) |
| Tests | |
| Number of tests (total) | 3,465,057 |
| Number of tests processed (total last 24 hours) | 14,905 |
| Number of tests taken in Auckland (last 24 hours) | 12,595 |
| Tests rolling average (last 7 days) | 16,938 |
| Testing centres in Auckland | 22 |
| Wastewater | |
| Wastewater detections ** | No unexpected detections in the next 24 hours |
| COVID-19 vaccine update | |
| Vaccines administered to date (total) | 5,402,732; 1st doses: 3,343,447 2nd doses: 2,059,285 |
| Vaccines administered yesterday (total) | 55,673; 1st doses: 14,846; 2nd doses: 40,827 |
| Mâori | 507,653 1st doses: 326,097 2nd doses: 181,556 |
| Pacific Peoples | 339,343; 1st doses: 210,788; 2nd doses: 128,555 |
| Vaccines administered to Auckland residents to date (total) | 1,971,837 1st doses: 1,211,175 (85%); 2nd doses: 760,662 (53%) |
| Vaccines administered to Auckland residents yesterday (total) | 20,796; 1st doses: 4,916 2nd doses: 15,880 |
| NZ COVID-19 tracer | |
| Registered users (total) | 3,273,120 |
| Poster scans (total) | 407,160,894 |
| Manual diary entries (total) | 17,595,104 |
| Poster scans in 24 hours to midday yesterday | 2,164,266 |
*Today’s cases
Two of today’s cases have been deemed historical – one is a community case, and one is a border case.
**Wastewater testing
As reported yesterday, wastewater sample collection has been arranged from locations within the Waikato and Manawatû-Whanganui regions. This includes Raglan, Huntly, Te Kauwhata, Ngaruawahia, Feilding, Hunterville, Tokoroa, Putaruru, Hamilton and Palmerston North. Results of these are expected over the coming days, however the timing of the results depends on various factors including the sample arrival times.
Testing in Waikato
Waikato DHB has confirmed additional testing capacity today at its testing sites around the region, as the teams there continue to see unprecedented demand.
More than 6,000 COVID-19 swabs taken from around the region on Monday are currently being processed.
Community testing centres were operating with extended hours today, with testing underway from 8am at the Hamilton sites. Pop-up sites were continuing today at Raglan and Huntly. All sites can be viewed on the DHB website, or at Healthpoint.
Limited exposure events in Waikato
Locations of Interest associated with Waikato sites will continue to be added to the Ministry of Health’s website as soon as possible.
Waikato DHB has not identified any locations of interest of significance in Hamilton at this stage. All potential exposure events have been direct interactions between individuals which have been followed up with directly.
The DHB has informed us that indications so far are that prior to receiving positive tests, the households affected had been following guidance on mask wearing and social distancing.
Auckland suburbs of interest
People with or without symptoms are asked to get tested if they live in any of the eight suburbs of interest.
The current suburbs of interest are:
· Clover Park
· Mângere
· Favona
· Manurewa
· Mount Wellington/Sylvia Park
· Henderson
· Papakura
· Red Beach
Red Beach is a new addition to the list. A pop-up community testing centre in Orewa at Victor Eaves Park, Enter via West Hoe Road will be open today from 2pm to 6pm and tomorrow from 8.30am to 5pm.
Naumi Hotel worker
Whole genome sequencing has linked the recent positive result in the worker at Naumi Hotel MIQ to two recent returnees, therefore this is classed as a border case. There is an ongoing investigation into potential in-facility transmission including reviewing CCTV footage. All staff at Naumi have been swabbed again, in addition to their regular workplace testing. All results have been negative. The worker is currently in the Jet Park quarantine facility.
Auckland-based truck driver
Whole genome sequencing for the Auckland based truck driver who drove to Palmerston North has been completed confirming the case is linked to one of the sub clusters in Auckland.
197 Comments
You've destroyed your birth certificate, passport, and driving license then? Proof of birth, proof of citizenship, and proof of driving eligibility. Vaccine is no different - your analogy is distasteful, and wholly wide of the mark.
Don't want a vaccine, fine, your right. You have the potential to carry a much greater viral load if you are unvaccinated and pose a significant health risk to people you are in contact with so your social options will be more limited. Consequences of your choice. That's the playing field around the world now.
You raise some interesting points in that we have a lot of required documentation now.
My reponse would be why not just add every vaccine in our immunisation schedule to the list? After all if it is about H&S then make it so everyone is safe.
Having done a lot of previous work with Measles and Flu modelling I find measles to be far scarier and of much greater risk to me and my family (who are all vaccinated against it) but it would be nice to exclude the degenerates who choose not to have the MMR vaccine from places I go to.
.. it is incredibly selfish to refuse a proven safe vaccine when it is offered to you for free ... 8 months late , 'cos this dysfunctional government couldn't run a booze up in a brewery ... but finally , it is here now ...
Viral Emergency ! .... we can get ontop of this if we get jabbed ....
If the passports are to be used next month, that will be before my booking for a second jab. I booked as soon as I was able and took one of the few slots available. Today I called to get it moved as far forward as possible. So now I will be treated like a leper due to yet more government incompetence. I find it astonishing that for all that was given up for at risk people to stay safe, the response has been consistently so selfish with regard to housing and now freedoms of future generations. Stuff doing the right thing any more, I'm taking a leaf from the boomer book.
From the article:
"[T]here will be exemptions for people who can’t be vaccinated under limited circumstances."
"[T]he Government is still working through whether one will need to be fully vaccinated (having had two doses of the vaccine) or fully immunised (having waited at least two weeks after the second dose) to be given the all clear to enter large events. "
You are right, but please try and think limited social options actually means. It does not mean no social options.
With vaccine passports the non-vaccinated will be excluded from all policed social venues. They will socialise in non-policed venues and these will become high risk breeding grounds for the virus.
The government will have wasted $billions on vaccination and lockdowns, to create what we have today - a largely immune populace. But now at the last second has decided to make sure there a silly channel of rapid viral infection.
Nice try. Mucosal viral load is the same in vaccinated or unvaccinated, especially in the first 6-7 days. You are just as infectious while more likely to think you aren't sick.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/18_august_2021_…
Jacinda said the passports would be used for large high risk areas and events. And probably not appropriate for dairies etc.
In Canada you will not be allowed to use a plane or a bus or train without having a vaccine. I'm getting my second jab in a couple of weeks but won't enter a venue that requires papers please.
I guess I'm only hurting myself but that's my personal protest. But like I said the passports are only temporary so should only be 2 years max surely?
I see jacinda said just now that lockdown 4 will happen again if a new covid emerges that is vaccine resistant. Hmmm.
We have now officially opened Pandora's box. It will be interesting to see what happens, I for one have a whole heap of questions that I know will never get asked at the presser.
- What is vaccinated? 1 dose? 2 doses? 3? 4? Pfizer? Moderna? All of this will need to be carefully defined and managed
- Will all overseas vaccine be recognised (Sinovac/AZ)
- If you can stop someone entering as they are not vaccinated, surely the rule applies the other way round? Will we see anti-vax only shops/gatherings?
- Many of the vaccinated may still have legitimate privacy concerns, and avoid events regardless. Why should they be penalised?
- DO businesses/event actually want to limit who can come in. 1/5 is a lot of lost customers.
- What will it mean for local sports clubs etc... Can only the vaccinated play? Watch?
- Are we as a nation literally willing to exclude the non-vaccinated from everything? If so will we extend it to other/all vaccines?
- Will there be legal challenges? What will the results be?
- What if I forget my certificate? What if it is wrong? Does it expire? Will we see fakes?
- Do kids get one that show they are exempt? or do we just not ask? do I get asked for ID as well to prove I am over 18 and therefore need one?
The list goes on and on.
Current research has shown a combination of natural infection + 1 pfizer + 1 novavax as providing the most comprehense immunity.
It is likely to be years until we get a definitive what is/was the best. But eitherway Natural immunity alone is unlikely to cut it (just like with regular flu strains)
True story.
I know someone who went along to a COVID vax-clinic and asked the head nurse about the vaccine and they were clearly pro-COVID vaccine. Then the conversation came around to the flu vaccine and they said they never got the flu vaccine as they didn't trust it.
When I worked in health, the methodology behind the Flu vaccine was that MoH modelled on what strain would most likely be expected in North and South Islands. Each Island was then vaccinated accordingly.
In general they had about a 2/3 success rate, i.e. got the right strain in the right island on the right year. Even if they got the wrong strain it would generally provide some form of increased immunity (unless the strain was fundamentally different, which sometimes happened)
So in general I would say the vaccine is trustworthy. If you are at risk/can get it for free, it's not going to hurt. But I also understand why people who aren't at risk don't bother. A jab each year for a low risk health event is hardly a high priority.
If covid turns into an annual booster, I can see apathy kicking in pretty quickly for most people and we will see vaccinate rates drop considerably as the virus just becomes another endemic flu type lurgy.
Like I said the list goes on.
- What if you do get a major negative side effect from vaccination, that was only had so you could attend a concert?
- What if you have the certificate? but still infect someone else?
- Does medically exempt mean you are allowed in? or should you be treated as unvaccinated (beacuse you are)
- What are the penalties for not following the rules?
- How will the rules be enforced?
- Why aren't "essential Services" included?
- What is an essential Service? Is it the same as the L4 open list? If not why is it not consistent?
- Are outdoor events covered? or only indoor?
- Will there be an amnesty period? People that vaccinate today may not get their second dose until December?
- Will this have ethnic/racial/religious/age/gender implications if certain demographics aren't vaccinated and therefore excluded?
- Should Public Officials (MPs/Councillors/etc...) certificates be made public?
- Can we OIA on Public officials on their data?
- Can an an unvaccinated public official attend Parliament? Cabinet? Council? If not how do the unvaccinated get fair representation?
If it is my business, it is my freedom to safeguard my personal safety as well as that of my customers and employees. No vaccine certificate. no entry. Anti-vax nutters can take their custom somewhere else. It is not discrimination - it is simply my human right to take actions to safeguard my health.
No they aren't, hence the measles outbreaks - the term anti-vax wasn't invented last year. You're happy to serve those anti-vax nutters though?
https://www.health.govt.nz/about-ministry/information-releases/general-…
You would actually be quite surprised. I suggest you do some research.
In general due to our National Immunisation schedule most children up to the age of 12 are well immunised. Rates for the various vaccines run at 80-95%.
But once you include the adult population the rates all drop markedly. 25%-75%. There are a range of reasons why:
- Migrants who have not been vaccinated
- People not getting boosters
- Changes to the vaccine schedule. i.e. Chicken-pox has only been added in the last few years (Pfft not deadly you say. Well it's no ebola, but it can still cause some real nasty issues in adults). 95% of <5 have it only 50% of under 12s.
At the time of the 2019 measles epidemic, showed only about 70% of adults were vaccinated, and that is a far worse Virus than Covid. You may remember a bunch of ads trying to convince people to get their MMR shots.
But who is vaccinated
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.30.462488v1.
"Our study shows vaccination with the Pfizer-BioNtech vaccine induces high levels of neutralizing antibodies against the original vaccine strain, but these levels drop by nearly 10-fold by seven months" after the initial dose, Bali Pulendran of Stanford University and Mehul Suthar of Emory University said "
"In roughly half of all subjects, neutralizing antibodies that can block infection against coronavirus variants such as Delta, Beta, and Mu were undetectable at six months after the second dose, their team reported on Thursday"
Are you running a retail, or commercial and industrial business.
What happens if someone comes in showing symptoms and shows a pass.
Are you able to take peoples temperature, scan the forehead, as the come through.
Can you bring contractors on-site basis a spit test.
Your business will go broke.
You will lose 20% of your customers, instantly. I'm not vaccinated, as I am waiting for another vaccine to be approved, but once I am, I will avoid businesses like yours that go down this path on principle. There will be quite a number like me, probably another 20% of people will be vaccinated but choose to avoid people like you and your business. Then you have the high cost of compliance, i.e will you employ people to enforce this? More cost and 40% fewer customers. Sounds like a losing plan to me. The only people that will really be able to enforce this are large events with access control and airlines.
What you will find is that you will lose money (more money) for the next year or two while people actively avoid you for better alternatives, and then a proper vaccine will emerge that everyone will then take, or pills for dealing with covid will be released (as they are currently), and so the vaccine won't be required any longer.
You will then be broke, and look like an idiot also.
However, in all probability, since this is being deployed as a website, and designed and implemented by this useless government, it will not be at all fit for purpose, and the scanning will be so slow people will just not do it anymore. Imagine having to scan in an entire rugby stadium of fans and the system stops working as it almost certainly will.
I think you overestimate the number of people who would go to this trouble on principle. Humans are by nature lazy and seekers of convenience and comfort. Lots will talk (and boy has there been a lot of talk here today), but very few will actually suffer the inconvenience in practice.
In a competitive market, the business that turns away customers will go broke.
You make it 1% harder for customers, and they will go somewhere more relaxed.
The businesses that will do well are the ones that will retain a friendly demeanor and a "don't ask don't tell" policy, while maintaining a veneer of health concern.
PS I'm vaxxed, but if little health Hitlers like this start asking for vaccine passports when I want to visit their factory, I'll be walking straight back the other way.
There are also reputation risks to consider if a business is vehemently pro-vax (same applies for the anti-vax, to be fair)
If you start advertising that you'll only accept vaccinated customers, expect to get bombarded with negative reviews on Facebook, Google etc. This not only makes your business look bad - negative reviews in Google can reduce the chance of prospective customers finding your business in the first place (e.g. if you are showing up prominently for "best bakery in Epsom" but get review-bombed, there's a risk you'll lose some of your prominence in Google's results).
Of course this principle applies to anti-vax businesses as well. Probably even more so as the majority of the adult population has had at least one jab. If turning away ~20% of customers is a bad idea, turning away ~80% is even worse!
As you say, the sensible choice for the majority of businesses will be a "don't ask don't tell" policy. Have your scan-in posters prominently displayed, have staff comply with mask guidelines while they are required, make it look like you take things really seriously ... this will keep the vast majority of prospective customers satisfied either way. In my professional life I work with dozens of small/medium businesses in the retail, hospitality and service industries, and my view is most I deal with will take the "don't ask don't tell" approach as they are concerned about enforcement and reputation issues.
Where I feel very sorry for businesses (especially public-facing ones in hospo, retail etc) is that whatever happens they are in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario, being placed under siege by the lunatics on both sides of the fence.
There is no scenario where businesses win here:
- Restrict access to vaxxed customers only and strictly enforce this - You'll miss out on business (the unvaxxed cohort by default, plus those who are vaxxed but are opposed to mandates/passports or who otherwise want to avoid partaking in the "new normal" - looking at some news stories out of places like Hawaii, New York and even Moscow, decline in revenue for restaurants appears to be significant e.g. https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/oahu-restaurants-seeing-drop-in-sales… ) plus risk review-bombing and other retribution from anti-vaxxers. There may also be additional costs if you need to hire extra staff to enforce this.
- Publicise you don't discriminate on the basis of vax status - Flip side of the above ... you'll miss out on business from the vaccinated who won't go anywhere that doesn't require vaccination, and also potentially suffer review-bombing and other reputational impacts.
- Don't ask, don't tell - The best option in my opinion, as you'll be able to keep the majority of normal people happy, but the primary risk here is that you let some unvaccinated customer in within earshot of one of the aggressively pro-vaccine crowd, and then suffer the same fate as a business that doesn't enforce any vaccine requirements.
The elephant in the room is what percentage of the "I won't go anywhere that doesn't enforce vaccine passports" crowd won't actually go out, even when this becomes a reality at their favourite stores, restaurants or bars, as despite being vaxxed they are still petrified of catching Covid. This could be 5%, 10% ... who knows? Anecdotally, I read a thread on Reddit NZ on this exact topic and there were plenty of commenters all stating that they will avoid any in-person hospo, retail etc until Covid disappears.
All I can say is I feel for public-facing businesses over the coming months.
You can still infect and spread the virus when you are vaccinated. So your reasoning about safety is a fallacy.
The only valid reason is to reduce hospitalisations.
I just wish the govt and everyone else could be honest about these things - discriminating against non vaccs is not for health risks to others, but to avoid healthcare overload.
And of course govt loves eroding our rights to privacy and loves us all checking in.
Not disputing the efficacy of the vaccine. The overreaction to this virus when compared to the chronic health issues that abound is startling - mind blowing in fact.
Why didn't we put similar efforts in diabetes, heart disease, alcohol, tobacco, motoring, fatty foods, junk food outlets?
All of these have ben killing us for years, in massive numbers.
Yet here I am on home detention for no crime committed, no trial, no judge or jury and being told it's about health.
That's just BS. This is about control.
Control - to what end do you think? Is lockdowns (control) the govt's reward in itself, or is there a second act planned? Do you think there a worldwide conspiracy of governments, as most have been doing the same thing? Or are they all simultaneously taking advantage of the situation in the same way, due to them all being control junkies, or in on the same plan for what comes next?
Or are they just worried about being singled out in history as the ones who allowed hospitals to become overloaded, causing otherwise unnecessary death? And put the health of the economy and peoples immediate freedoms at a lower priority. The masses will never be upset at the Govt for allowing people to be fat and lazy drunkards, it is seen as peoples own choice. Catching an invisible airborne bug however is out of peoples self control, and relies on Govt organization to mitigate.
Your logic is way off here. As other countries have shown, and clinical research has proven, being vaccinated does not prevent you from catching or transmitting the virus. The only benefit is that you wont get as sick. So you are more at risk from the infected but mildly symptomatic vaccinated person still going about their daily business while spreading the virus, than the unvaccinated person who is at home in bed feeling rubbish. If you wanted to protect your own health you would be insisting on have negative covid test results for everyone as that is the only way to guarantee that the person in front of you does not have covid. Vaccine "immunity" also wears off quickly after a few months - so are you going to be checking the date of people's last shot as well? In Israel now, if you are six months past your last shot you are deemed unvaccinated again.
Here's some clarity: just incase you are a bit confused…
“Auckland remains in Level 3 except for a few conditions that permit you to be closer to Level 2 but with the restrictions of Level 3 while allowing for the Level 2 freedoms but maintaining a Level 3 threshold with a Level 2 range while keeping a clear Level 3 environment that will allow you to do those Level 2 activities as long as they meet the guidelines of Level 3 but this is only on the condition that the Level 2 processes are structured to fit inside the Level 3 road map."and please stay outside .
Level What you can do !
Level 4 - nothing your buggered
Level 3 Level 4 + Takeaway
L3 stage 1 L4 + Takeaway + Picnic
L3 stage 2 L4 + shopping for a picnic and takeaway
L3 stage 3 L4 + shopping for a picnic to takeaway to the Zoo
So excited for L3 stage 4 or L2 stage 1 -- which should be just before Christmas what goodies to unwrap
Ardern always made a big thing of the "hard and fast" approach to Covid but why wasn't that done with the vaccine rollout. Better late than never I guess but the Government's current urging for everyone to get vaccinated as quickly as possible (and I'm assuming we do have enough vaccine doses available now) just seems inconsistent with the messages they were giving us earlier in the year (a measured rollout) and we did know about Delta way back in May. Hopefully MOH have records of all who have had their vaccinations so they can retrospectively issue these internationally acceptable vaccine passports.
Not quite correct, before May well and truly. The government at the time the PM was on TV (Tame interview) 11 April advocating early vaccine arrival as unnecessary because of zero cases, they were aware of two critical things. 1) The bubble with Australia starting, meaning their border became NZ’s border. 2) in India a variant (since called Delta) was roarin away, 150,000 new cases a day, 10 hours flight from Australia.
Is this a case of Anti-vaxxers just needing to clone a bunch of legitimate people’s QR codes to keep reusing them? Will the codes change every minute like those in Authentication fobs?
will the paper codes require a paired real time text message or will they be “everyone who wants one can get a copy of these 1,000 people’s codes” (with new codes added periodically by sympathisers who have cameras in public places where legit codes are being scanned?
No system is going to be sufficiently foolproof to stop people who want to outright lie and essentially fraudulently claim they have been vaccinated from doing so. They'll still find a way.
The key is making it so that they are extremely harshly punished for doing so when found out.
You’ll get people who justify it as just what is necessary to retain their “rights & freedoms”. Given that the scanning app will just display a big green tick (according to Jacinda ) detection of fraud will be extremely challenging.
I actually foresee highly sophisticated channels being established specifically to defeat such simplistic certification measures, with almost 20% of the population opposed you have a very large potential market for the distribution of your services, one potentially more lucrative than meth with lower barriers to entry (as a distributor). You would essentially be incentivising Gangs (via financial incentive) to spread Covid in order to keep the gravy train (selling copied certificates) going for as long as possible.
It would also be near impossible to catch distributors who do a print on demand service. Police action to cancel certificates that show unusual use would just create repeat customers / cause customers to hold 2 certificates at a time (oops that copy might’ve smudged (or I must have picked up my cousin’s by mistake) , here try this one)
Watch out mate, you are being politically incorrect so you might be "cancelled".
Fortunately, interest.co.nz is highly democratic, as a comment like yours (which is just a statement of fact, after all) would have never been accepted in woke circles like stuff.co.nz
Indeed. To add a bit of positivity to the topic, I think we should acknowledge and show gratitude to NZ Asian friends&collegues for stepping in and doing their bit when it comes to vaccinations.
- No call centres targeting them funded by the government (please correct me if I'm wrong).
- No scandals in the media with group leaders on spotlights.
- Most of the time they are not even included in the debate&updates. According to MoH, 956 of 1000 got their first doze(wow!), yet you don't even see that included in the stats table here or at stuff.
Leave NZ to go where? A remote part of Africa? Vaccine passports are becoming the new norm in developed countries.
Being asked to prove you're vaccinated before going to a concert or sports game will keep people safe and give others there peace of mind, so they can have a good time.
We often already let security at big events check our bags to ensure we aren't bringing in glass, booze, drugs, weapons, etc. Adding a vaccine check shouldn't be skin off anyone's back.
Re your first point, many precedents already exist. For example Yellow Fever cards have been around for ages, and several countries required one to enter. So I can't see why people should be upset. What to go to another country then abide by their rules.
My concern is if a NZ citizen is restricted entry to NZ due to vaccination status.
As for the security at sports event, a better comparison would be an on the spot test. i.e. you must have a negative result to enter. Checking for a vaccination is the same as checking whether you purchased a weapon in the past.
I thnk they have this in Europe, proof of "convalescent" exposure, in other words you had it and recovered. Same right of entry to venues as a vaxxed individual. The number of these types in NZ is vanishingly small though 4300 odd at last count. But you are correct though, we should have it for the 4300 and in fact I feel a little hard done by that I am not one of them.
By the sound of the last few press conferences, our strategy is changing from elimination to managing outbreaks through vaccines and other public health measures. Pretty safe to say we can expect more infections in the future, and that 4300 will become a larger number. If vaccinated status is going to be required for certain activities in the future, New Zealand should recognise Covid survivors with the same status.
Perhaps there could be an enterprising Indian tourist agency be found that offers holiday trips to places where you get a complimentary care pack like the local population to deal with the likely event that you get covid? That way, while on holiday, deal with it efficiently with proper care and drugs that are not stupidly restricted here, and everyone can be happy? Return to NZ with a test result that shows you had it and be cleared to enter being naturally vaccinated? I would book tomorrow.
I always wanted to pay India a visit, truly... maybe Mexico could be a cool place too!
I doubt very if we'll get to 85% double vaxxed in the next 2 months of the current specified age range. Talked to 4 construction workers on a site, all under 35 with youngest between 17-20. None vaccinated and one fairly vehement about not getting vaccinated. Not sure how much behind the scenes polling there is but if its available from Labour they keeping quiet about it because of the number who don't want to get vaccinated. Can only assume National have not done any of their own polling other wise if its as much negative against vaccination, they would have been shouting the odds alright that 85 odd % is unachievable. Perhaps the other well known pollsters haven't been asked to do any polling on the basis the govt. doesn't want to hear any evil.
Poor Peene Henare is caught between the rock of Maori vaccine avoidance and the PM's desire to up the Maori vacc rate and there is nothing he can do; at least he has asked Maori to take responsibility,step up and get vaxxed, while other Maori doctors/leaders are crying racism and genocide.
Meanwhile ICU cases are increasing...
Prime minister said an [ethnic] sub group is preventing her from removing restrictions because it would be unfair to let more people of ethnicities that choose not to be vaccinated suffer the consequences of their choices. We will therefore socialise the cost across all Aucklanders.
You are quite right. I work in the construction industry. The number of people I have spoken with recently show me that 20% would be the least likely who really don’t want to take thd kool aid. There a many more that got the first jab already simply because they are in leading jobs and feel they have no financial choice due to young families and mortgages! Several people have said to me they would look at how they could support any group I would join or help organise to challenge mandated vaccinations for construction site access for example.
I think the government is making a grave mistake to think they can ram this through at any cost without serious damage to both, social cohesion and longer term health issues. Many younger (guys particularly) people not buying the ‘it is safe’ message. It is so desperate, that many people are instinctively suspect because of that alone. No need to be a conspiracy theorist. And when young, intelligent people read just some of the more neutrally written info and consider a basic fact like 98% survival rate overall, and 99.5+ % rate for anyone under 40, you end up with easily 10-15% of the population being very against mandating vaccinations. But not being ‘antivaxxer crazies’ like so many here would like to portray it as being the case.
Just a personal anecdotal observation. Make of it whatever you like, but don’t make the mistake to think those people will be happily lining up in 6 months time for their booster shot!
You've hit the nail on the head. While there is no covid circulating and therefore no risk (outside of certain groups in Auckland) there is no incentive to rush out and get vaccinated. Especially since vaccine immunity wears off quickly, so you dont want to be vaccinated and then waste it when there is no chance of getting sick. And as soon as there is a case of covid, then we will be slammed back into lockdown quicker than you can say "my giddy aunt" so again, whats the point of being vaccinated if you are going to spend the next few months unable to go anywhere anyway.
If Jacinda wanted vaccination rates to go up she should declare a date for a full lift of all lockdown restrictions. Then there would be a rush on for vaccines. While lockdowns look semi-permanent (but with picnics!) there is little incentive to get vaccinated.
Seems a relatively thoughtful and measured approach, compared to say NSW:
"With respect to vaccination compliance and obligations:
- "Businesses will be responsible for taking reasonable measures to stop unvaccinated people entering premises. For example, having prominent signs stating requirements, Service NSW QR codes, staff checking vaccination status upon entry and only accepting valid forms of evidence of vaccination.
- "Authorised officers will monitor businesses re-opening, particularly those that have vaccination requirements, for example hospitality, retail, gyms, and personal services (e.g. hair, beauty).
- "Penalties may apply for individuals and businesses who don’t comply. On the spot fines of $1,000 may apply to individuals for not complying, or for using fraudulent evidence of vaccination or check-in. On the spot fines of $5,000 may apply to businesses for not complying with the Public Health Order vaccination requirements. Further penalties may apply for significant breaches."
NSW restrictions on non-vaccinated is only temporary.
"NSW’s reopening will be split into three stages: 70% vaccination coverage, 80% vaccination coverage, and a third and final stage of reopening, set for 1 December.
While only those who are vaccinated will be eligible for the first and second stages of reopening, unvaccinated residents will enjoy the same level of freedom as vaccinated people from 1 December."
Hope Jacinda is not going to end up like Dan Andrews making vaccine passports will only turn this country into a war zone. Look at what is happening all over the world if people don’t want vaccine this is fine same as if they do want vaccine most people will take it anyway. Making people take it is only going get peoples back up. This could separate 20% of people from rest, nazi state worries next you will see anyone unvaccinated no jobs sitting out side mall’s begging people to buy food for them, family member’s grassing on another sounding more like a verses from book of revelations every day . This will harm more people that the virus will ever hurt
Everyone will get it in the end, the lockdowns will mean nothing. And vaccination doesn't change how infectious you are so you can't "protect others". And yes, I am vaccinated, but only for selfish reasons. Be honest.
"Vaccinated Delta cases appear to have similar viral loads to unvaccinated cases for the first 6-7 days"
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/18_august_2021_…
So, you may have all the bugs inside you but it is all good once you are vaccinated!
For Air NZ Sick, smoking obese vaccinated passenger is better than healthy teenager!
Does actually anyone see what is happening around the world? Does anyone see that vaccination does not really fix the issue????
Europe is getting 3td dose ...and it is clear that it will be 6 months routine - or your 'pass will expire'.
I know several people (personally) with sever adverse affects after vaccine that have not reported anything as not worth it...
The propaganda in this country is beyond limits!
WAKE UP NEW ZEALAND !!!
The PM opened the gate on annecdotes with her perfectly vetted and cherry-picked "official" annecdote based on a single household.
Of course we can already see that vaccinated people (although in the minority) are still catching covid and ending up in Hospital, based on the whole data sample.
Given the choice between no one being allowed to go to concerts etc, or just the vaccinated, would you choose no one? Is it locking the anti vax out, or is it allowing more freedom to those that are vaccinated?
To me vaccination passports are just a way of allowing people like myself out of level 3 before the date that the country as a whole reaches a high vaccination rate. I got my vax as early as possible, why should I wait for the slackers?
I am not to sure if you get it Gv 27 people are ok with vaccine take it if you want or don’t take. What people don’t like is Jacinda and her health officials telling people you have to have a vaccine passport to work live and function in New Zealand society this would be the start of a downward spiral that might mean things like you can’t vote you can’t have free speech ect (does this start to remind you off any other time in history)
Actually, as someone who has a medical condition, I really do get it. Probably a lot better than the people here who are determined to call people commie nazis at the drop of a hat because they're sooking about having to do something that doesn't exclusively benefit themselves for once.
As for any other time in history: Try the Spanish Flu. You know, that thing where people had to wear a mask and generally use their brains so that they didn't die? Kiwis over 100 years ago had this shit figured out, yet despite all our accumulated knowledge that we've amassed in the last century, Kiwis have apparently gotten stupider by some margin.
No. Its not a downward trend. Its the quickest way out of restrictions.
Saint Ardern will never accept mass fatalities. So things like this pass will give them confidence they can keep us from dying from cv19 whilst opening up Little by little.
You don't want a vaccine out of principal? That's great... I don't want another year of working a full time job at home with two young, bored kids Bouncing around.
We still get to vote no matter what. If they cancel the next election we will all join your bandwagon, but until then Your principals are keeping the rest of us locked up.
Stop being selfish and get the vaccine.
Jeez did they turn the Wifi back on in the nut house today? There's a lot of Anne Franks and George Orwells around who seem mad they might have to get a jab before they can get written off on Waiheke vineyards this summer.
Surely the accompanying Napeloens and Abe Lincolns will be along in short order.
The idea of penalizing people in order to force them to get the vaccine makes me uneasy, it's that simple. It's getting a little close to mandating it full stop which I absolutely don't support.
I think there's a lot more that can be done in terms of promotion, education, and positive incentives.
Once COVID becomes endemic many people will not want to enter a venue that doesn't require evidence of vaccination or exemption.
The business council in Auckland knows this is coming and wants to be able to mandate vaccination for their staff. Not because anyone really wants to tell someone else to suck eggs, they just know that empty shops and cafes await otherwise.
We don't. It doesn't matter if there is some fraud, because the idea of them is not to be 100% accurate. They're simply part coercive tool/part sop to a scared public, and will be quietly dropped after a few months once everyone regains control of their senses. With a few possible exceptions like international travel.
From the conference, there are very limited circumstances where the passport will be mandatory but businesses may be able to require the use of it, this is pending some legal review currently underway. No firm dates for anything yet, but my impression is that they want this to be in full swing for the summer holiday season.
Thanks, also just found this on the MOH website "From the end of November, you will be able to download digital vaccination and COVID-19 test certificates for use in New Zealand and overseas. Domestic certificates will help ensure we are reducing the risk of the virus spreading at large gatherings and events over the summer and into next year."
So sounds like end of Nov it will be a thing for festivals, and as you say potentially optional or phased in for other businesses after that.
Just a quick calculation Government need 465,543 more people to get to 90% first dose. Today there where 14,846 first doses so if they keep going at the current rate by it would take another 32 days (7th of November) to achieve that first dose target.
The one caveat here is that the first dose rate has been dropping over time. If that continues it could easily set back the program months. This is where health services will really earn their money.
I read the updates most days and I can't recall ever seeing more than 4-5 at a time over the course of this outbreak, all of which were fairly limited to certain hospitals.
Naturally, they didn't say much about them nor do I recall if they even gave an answer to whether the 91 year old who died was vaccinated or not. I'm assuming by Grant Robertson's avoidance of the question that she probably was.
Today's update says seven cases are in ICU or HDU. What's our capacity, about 230? Let's be generous and say 300. So this tiny outbreak is already using 2.3% of capacity.
Even a modest 10x bigger outbreak will start to cause challenges because there is plenty of non-Covid demand for critical care beds. A 100x bigger outbreak does not sound like a happy time at all.
I think the problem, with respect, is that hospitals often list cancer patients as Covid patients etc and media reports are essentially anecdotal. Stanford researcher John Ionnaidis has found a median infection fatality rate (IFR) for Covid of 0.1% in countries with low Covid rates ie New Zealand; http://biomechanics.stanford.edu/me233_20/reading/ioannidis20.pdf.
This median IFR was based on 30 different peer reviewed studies with samples over 500.
Sunchap
Your 5.46pm comment clearly reflects an extremely low level of critical thinking skills.
An irrational jump in faith that one death means no demand on ICU.
Have you not been not been following the number of hospitalisations and numbers in ICU under a relatively minor numerical outbreak (due to strict lockdown). The total number of Covid cases -1350 - over the past seven weeks is similar to the daily cases of Covid in NSW and Victoria.
You clearly have forgotten the suffering and stress on the NY hospital system and their ICU units unable to cope under Delta Alpha . . . and you preferring useless Ivermectin would mean a worse scenario under Delta for New Zealand.
You might want to do an actual fact check on that one since you're so wrong it's not funny.
The only dangerous study they did was when they gave a whole bunch of people extreme overdoses of it. That's their 'science'.
Given the FDA's history on approving dodgy products, are you really surprised though. I mean it was found the health board responsible for approving Remdesivir was mostly funded by the company that makes it. Not to mention Mr Anthony 'I helped fund COVID with Wuhan' Fauci in charge of it all.
...and you preferring useless Ivermectin would mean a worse scenario under Delta for New Zealand.
You are seriously beginning to sound like a paid shill of the big pharma industry! If populous nations like India and Mexico can show us he way, why are you steadfastly refusing to accept that Ivermectin can and is very useful in combination with other treatments? Can I print and frame some of your current comments and show them to you in a year or two...?
I'd like to see more outreach to Marae leaders. All it takes is for one to publicly come on board and say that in order to come onto a Marae you need to be vaccinated to protect their elders and Tamariki and we could have an avalanche of Maori getting vaccinated. Crucial, especially in remote areas.
I think you are quite off the mark suggesting this. It think it shows your ignorance and lack of deeper knowledge about Maori culture and why it exists in its form in the first place… And I say this as a European immigrant, albeit having been married to a Maori and lived with the culture. I would not expect them doing your bidding. And if one of them perhaps does try, it will be unlikely that it would last very long.
This is a heavy comments section. I was exhausted after making it to the bottom. This was way more fun when we all just argued about house prices. Kudos to the editors though for cleaning up some flagrant comments. Keep up the good work Interest.co.nz team.
For everyone out there who is stressed about Covid making its way here permanently, all I can say is it does get easier living with it. I lived in the US with it until earlier this year (and contracted and survived it). Life will get back to a new normal. But it will be different. It will take some adjusting but life goes on.
We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.
Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.