sign up log in
Want to go ad-free? Find out how, here.

The EMA is calling for the carrying of digital vaccine passports to enter the workplace to be made mandatory so that employers can comply with their health and safety obligations under the law

Business
The EMA is calling for the carrying of digital vaccine passports to enter the workplace to be made mandatory so that employers can comply with their health and safety obligations under the law
Digital vaccine passport

This content was sourced from the EMA*


The EMA is asking for the mandatory carrying of digital vaccine passports to enter the workplace, with digital exemptions and extra precautions applying to those who can’t or choose not to be vaccinated.

Chief Executive Brett O’Riley says carrying the passport - currently being investigated by Government - will give employers and employees the certainty and the safety they want in their workplace and will give an incentive to those hesitant about getting vaccinated.

"The majority of New Zealanders are getting vaccinated, and we know some employers were already using a no jab, no entry policy to protect their workplaces prior to this latest outbreak," says Mr O’Riley.

"Under health and safety legislation employers have to provide a safe and healthy workplace for their workers and carrying vaccine passports is one way to do this.

"You’ll need a vaccine passport at work and if you are visiting a workplace, retail or service outlet or a bar or restaurant you’ll also need a passport to enter.

"Those that can’t be vaccinated for medical, religious or other reasons will have to apply for and carry a digital exemption and may have to wear masks and/or register for track and tracing - current policy at Level 3 - to be allowed in. The unvaccinated may have to take some responsibility for the circumstances or decisions they face while the extra precautions would help employers manage a potential mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated staff."

The EMA is not asking for compulsory vaccination in the workplace.

"The Government has made it very clear that’s a step too far under various legislated rights for our citizens, but it has also failed to step up with any direction or guidance for businesses trying to manage and create vaccination policies in the workplace.

"The current risk-based approach recommended by the Minister and MBIE is a recipe for court cases, costs and delays while jurisprudence is sorted. The last thing businesses need now is more uncertainty."

Mr O’Riley said carrying the passport would encourage hesitant workers to get vaccinated or face extra safety measures.

"Many of our members draw their workforces from communities that have proved hard to reach in the current vaccination programme and this would be another way of reaching into those communities.

"We’d also like to see changes made at the border to incentivise vaccination as well. If the border is to remain in place long-term - as indicated by Dr Bloomfield - then allow the fully vaccinated to travel through the border with proof of a negative test.


The EMA is New Zealand’s largest business lobby group and is part of the BusinessNZ Network in a territory spans the upper North Island.

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

165 Comments

Well I don't want to eat food prepared or served by someone who might have Covid-19 so in some industries it's basically going to be a huge selling point to be able to post a sign outside saying "All of our staff are vaccinated" right up there with fresh air dining, spaced out tables and good hygiene practices in terms of winning customer confidence. Similar to many other industries that require face-to-face contact or people consume goods from (be that abattoir or bakery.)

Up
13

I would view any business who had such signage favourably and give them preference.
After all most businesses advertising and sponsorship is about prompting themselves as being responsible and community spirited. 

Up
12

I'd take the opposite position. If the vaccine was very good at preventing transmission, I'd be more sympathetic to the view. However, it's not so the whole position is flawed.

Up
23

So you wouldn't frequent establishments that advertised all its staff were vaccinated?

Up
9

I wouldn't frequent an establishment that treated their customers like cattle. 

"Papers please" - no thanks!

Up
18

Not what I asked.

Up
7

OK - I would be no more, or no less likely to.

Up
3

No. I prefer businesses that don't demand their staff use certain medication.

Up
13

Who said they were forced? As far as I am aware vaccine mandates do not apply to hospitality staff.

Up
4

I don't know. I said demand.

Up
2

And that's why you'll always be a npc

Up
2

The vaccine is very good at preventing transmission. A vaccinated person is at least 5 times less likely to catch Covid, and if they do catch it they clear the infection more rapidly. So the policy makes perfect sense.

Up
7

Evidence?

Up
5

Events in Israel show that vaccinated people are now the majority with Covid so vaccination is no proof that the vaccinated will not transmit the virus. Pfizer acknowledge their spike protein injection fades 6 months after injection so the idea of a vaccination passport would require renewal 6 monthly.

Up
11

In Israel that is exactly the case as of now. So, NZ if you are up for 6 monthly jabs, go for it!

Up
2

The researchers found that vaccinated people with the Delta variant could have a viral load similar to those who had not received a vaccination.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-infection-unvaccinated-…

The scientists showed that people who had had two doses of the vaccination had at least as much protection against the virus as people who had antibodies after having COVID-19. People who had developed antibodies after having the disease and received both vaccinations had even better protection. (but don't ask me about side effects of any of both options, it's a risk you'd need to consider individually based on the 'broad' spectrum of information available)

 

 

 

Up
0

I couldn't care less,  open up everything now

Up
34

No, Ardern wants responsible people with the jab to suffer because of d*cks who decide they are too important to get it. 

Up
5

This comment epitomises the ignorance that infests the ivory towers of Wellington. I see it in my line of work plenty. It’s not the vaccine that the Pacific and Maori communities don’t trust, it’s the Crown. We are only a generation removed from the dawn raids and a couple more from colonisation. The relationship between these communities and the Crown have not been reconciled. Would you take a shot in the arm from an institution that marginalised your ancestors and near destroyed your identity? 

Up
13

Get over it. The govt has apologised.

Don't get the jab then. You can keep looking back and feel sorry for yourself. 

Up
10

Oh well then, all is forgiven. As you were. Maybe we should tell Afghanistan we are sorry and get over it?

Up
2

we should never have gone there, the only reason we went was to be buddy buddy with the USA.

 

Up
0

Do you want us to say sorry for everything? I feel sorry for you having such an outlook on everything.

Up
3

No. Just ask that before you pass judgment on these communities is that you consider what influences their lives. I feel sorry for you that you lack the empathy to understand this basic concept. 

Up
6

Having sympathy for someone is very different to one's outlook.

You will strain your neck if you keep looking back.

Up
2

If you don't look back to where the separation originated, you'll never understand how the 2 came apart in the first place and therefore not resolve it. And here we are now, with you calling those not vaccinated self important phalluses. That shows you do not understand the lack of trust between the Crown and some Kiwis, and you have no intention to. 

Up
5

Zzzzzzzz... you only live once, get on with life.

Up
3

Then why do you care so much if others get vaccinated? Just get on with it

Up
3

Because if you get COVID sick I'd be paying your treatment. Duh.

Up
2

We all pay for any sickness, people should have chose to do whatever they like take the jab if you like or not , why is it any of you business 

Up
3

That is the very problem with western society. All this independence and "I can do what I want". Sure, be selfish. Go smoke 2 packs of smokes a day, someone will pick up the tab.

Up
2

Is your name in a previous life 'Lanthanide' by any chance?

Up
2

Beow beow. No.

Up
0

What society would you like to belong to if not western. I’m sure a lot of people would be happy to see you move there.bye 😀

Up
3

So those closer to this supposed marginalization like the over 60 age group Maori are well vaccinated, and those less affected by it are more marginalized?

Do you think this older group by being well vaccinated is still under the influence of colonization?

Up
4

Vaccination at 82% for the 65+ is not "well vaccinated" at all. They are the critical risk population, they need to be much closer to 100%.

That is a significant number of highly susceptible people unprotected. They will mess up our health service for everyone else.

Up
1

They are well comparable to other ethnic groups and well ahead of other Maori age groups. It's not universal that Maori are slow in vaccination uptake.

Up
1

It is up the communities to decided what is in their best interest. The urge to vaccine is not coming from the NZ government or the UK (the historical wrongdoers), but it is a global trend. Is not vacciniating themselves bad for them? if yes, then they are shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to vaccine (btw, to my understanding pacifica communities are by and large like other New Zealanders, if not slightly better). 

Up
1

I agree and think it goes deeper, cannot think of any Govt dept or public body that has performed to a standard we expect and the daily propaganda from the Podium of lies reinforces the distrust.

Up
5

Consultation and community engagement is the most important function that the public sector performs, yet the majority do it very poorly. 

Up
2

Wrong reasoning Frank. Some of us are critical thinkers. I don't even listen to some of what my doctor tells me but if you want to go blindly listening to big pharma and even what politicians start telling you what do do, be my guest.

Up
10

Question - are you expecting cafe's to ban children?

Up
1

No, because they can't get the jab yet. When they can, then the same rules apply.

Up
3

Well most cafes should ban children anyway or their should be a few that do specifically cater for kids that I can avoid. Nothing like some kid screaming on a quiet sunny Sunday while your trying to relax with your flat white.

Up
10

What an ignorant comment from someone either without kids of their own or don't believe kids can be taught to behave.

Up
2

Correct, no kids and with all the anti-smacking brigade running about good luck trying to teach your kids to behave these days. I shouldn't have to put up with someone else's kid screaming at the top of its lungs on the table right next to me in the cafe, take your kids to McDonalds.

Up
2

Remember you were once a kid too.

Up
3

And they'll be paying our pensions. I don't have or particularly like kids, but those that are there will come in handy eventually.

Up
1

Oh the irony!

Up
1

I am not sure he gets what is going on...

Up
1

Well Squishy you wont want you food prepared by any vaccinated person.  Around 60% of vaccinated people get covid according to the Israeli data.  Vaccinated covid patients don’t feel so sick so they got to work and spread it around.   Maybe we should be banning vaccinated people from travel, cafes, restaurants, etc.

Up
3

While I dislike the generic anti-vaxxer mentality, I also find this pseudo mandatory vaccination drive pretty distasteful.

 

Up
28

... yes ... this will open up a Pandoras box of legal issues ... and , its non essential if most of us get vaccinated ... 'cos , even if we catch the C19 it'll likely be a mild flu ....

Up
10

The legal issue is the health and safety issue of letting unvaccinated people into your workplace.

Up
3

Then you will have to apply the same with annual flu in future! And then the next one will demand that anyone not having measles vaccine will e banned. How often do the still sane people have to point out the basics of logical thinking?

Up
2

Yes. At the end of the day I feel you are an idiot not to get the vaccine. Particularly if you are over 50. However I refuse to get behind  this idea of marginalising & discriminating against a group of people in our society based on there belief system.

Up
9

... it does reek of divisioning ... splitting us into factions ... as if this government hasn't done enough of this for the past 4 years  already ... far from a " team of 5 million " , it's another wedge ... and so unnecessary ...

Up
6

Are you marginalising them or just allowing vaxed people out of lockdown earlier? Why make the vaxed wait until vax rate is high enough?

Up
1

That's going to lead to some heated debate !

Up
2

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/126581490/covid19-whe…

 

OPINION: A recent TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll found that 61 per cent of respondents supported compulsory vaccination for all New Zealanders aged 18 and over. Thirty-five per cent said it should not be mandatory, with the rest undecided.

 

The majority have spoken, Kiwis want this, the politicians are just following the will of the mob, there will be very little debate and almost universal acceptance.

Up
1

I am sure if we just asked the "Majority" we could strip all sorts of privileges from all sorts of different people.

Just because it is popular does not make it right.

Up
10

This is what you get after 1.5 years of intense sustained propaganda and fearmongering.  

Up
5

This is really irresponsible beyond comprehension by the media  and the government! Every day that goes by with more of this divisive nonsense, will cause more severe issues, legal and social consequences for this are more massive than many realise.

 

I said this in another thread just earlier. If my grandfather and father would witness this, they would turn in their grave. Both having been forced to serve in WWII... both having witnessed other men with a gun, a real gun, to their head to make them go the fronts! Anyone who has their marbles even just half intact should stop now with their ill fated, psychotic crusades for mandatory vaccination and passports everywhere...

 

Up
4

Get the jab or stay home forever. End of story. Responsible people will enjoy their freedoms.

Up
4

Or, keep the borders closed and everyone gets to be freeish, not just the fascists with their pretend freedom? Globalisation was a great dream, until reality happened and it crashed the planets life support systems.

Up
3

Mr frank you seem like the sort of person that when you turn up any where everyone else go home  

Up
3

Many of our members draw their workforces from communities that have proved hard to reach in the current vaccination programme and this would be another way of reaching into those communities.

A nice way to write "force people to medicate by removing their livelihood". 

The Pfizer vaccine efficacy for preventing infection drops to 50% after 6 months (by their own admission). So this is a commitment to constant "top-ups". For those that have bad reactions to this vaccine, that's not going to be pleasant.

 

 

Up
17

It seems the government has the greater population by the balls which has set one group vehemently against the other. Heather du Plessis Allen and Marcus Lush last night on ZB were manic. If ever there was hate speech....they did it. Congrats Ardern

Up
6

OPINION: A recent TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll found that 61 per cent of respondents supported compulsory vaccination for all New Zealanders aged 18 and over. Thirty-five per cent said it should not be mandatory, with the rest undecided.

 

The reverse is true, the government is simply doing what the people want!

Up
5

OPINION: A recent TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll [ <- here is where I stopped reading].

Up
5

agreed -  we nearly eliminated down to under 10 cases and only 2 active sub clusters before it hit the gangs and social housing -- now 12+ active sub-clusters and 40 infections a day rising --    Its been made clear the government blaming Maori, gangs, social housing occupants for all breaking lockdown guidelines- not the government for failing to treat those groups in the same way it treated the Pacifika community and whisk them all and their household contacts straight to MIQ -- instead of allowing home isolation! and not isolating close contacts. 

Crying shame -- as we nearly eliminated it and the sacrifices our amazing 

 

Up
0

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data

Just had a look at the MOH vaccine data (scroll down for the big colorful table).

The key question is: how to get Maori aged 19 to 34 to get vaccinated?

Any answers?

Up
2

Given the collective nature of Māori culture it'll be difficult for them to properly observe traditional customs without creating superspreader events if unvaccinated.

Similarly those Christian cults.

Up
1

Listen more to their Grandparents, rather than their parents. The over 60 Maori age group has high vaccination rates with the under the '60s ie parents and their children dragging the chain.

Up
2

I agree it would be nice if they got vaccinated, but I don't think it's the end of the world. 

They will spread the virus through our country much more quickly because they are mobile and many live in overcrowded situations, but they are unlikely to die or require hospitalisation.

It's the over 65's (of all demographics) that need a kick up the backside. 82% is Not Enough. The remaining unvaxxed in this demographic are going to overwhelm and stuff up our health system. They need to get their jabs asap.

Up
1

But vaccine does not stop you getting covid

Up
17

... neither do seat belts guarantee you wont be maimed or killed in a horrific car crash ... but , they do stack the odds in your favour ...

It's exactly the same with Covid-19 vaccines ...

Up
14

The risk of serious side effect from the vaccine is higher than the risk of hospitalisation for covid for me (Oxford risk calculator vs medsafe comirnaty assessment).

 

Up
14

npc you can find anything you want to believe in.

Up
6

... the " long Covid " after effects  were enough to convince a needle cowardly custard like me to get jabbed  ... and , its almost like a civic duty , a small thing each of us can do for the greater good  ... same as a generation ago when polio & measles vaccines were first rolled out  ....

Up
7

what serious side effects? the fear porn has got you 

Up
4

As an example 1-1000 to 1-10,000 chance of facial paralysis.

That's from the medsafe review of comirnaty. If that's porn to you then you're into weird stuff.

Up
3

5x as many vaccinated in the US as have caught Covid - where are all the vaccine injuries filling up the hospitals?

Up
1

You won't end up in hospital if you get facial paralysis. You'll just have to deal with it.

Up
3

Vaccine injuries don't seem to be reported as such, from what I've heard from friends and family abroad. I know someone personally who suffered a stroke hours after vaccine dose two. I understand that this is noted as a rare possible side effect. Doctor was insistent it was in no way connected to the vaccine.

I also see that heart disease is having an "unexplained" bump in parts of the UK. Meanwhile, Sweden is withdrawing the moderna vaccine for under 30s due to heart disease concerns.

I suspect there might be a slowly building wave of heart disease filling hospitals in the next year.

 

Up
1

I found it interesting that over 35,000 people chose to comment on Jacinda's FB page "lets discuss side effects"

All liars of course....

Up
0

10(!!!!!!) DEATHS in AUssie this week - not sure which day - 7 Vaccinated, 3 unvaccinated.

Up
0

 

    Up
    0

    "We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta.'

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v2

    Up
    8

    The misinformation continues.

    Medrxiv are not peer reviewed or edited before being posted and should not be considered as established information.

    Up
    7

    Bit early to label it misinformation before it's even been peer reviewed then, isn't it?

    Up
    4

    Well duh. Perhaps be less intellectually lazy and check out the authors before firing off the mis-infomation meme.

     

    'Meet Joe DeRisi, the virus hunter who foresaw the Covid pandemic'

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/joe-derisi-virus-hunter-covid-us-mic…

     

    'The Disease Detective

    Joe DeRisi invented a way to find pathogens that scientists didn’t even know to look for. Can it help prevent the next pandemic?'

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/03/magazine/metagenomic-sequencing.html

    Up
    2

    I am uneasy with the mandatory vaccine passports I get that people should be vaccinated and support that but beauracrats having control of such a passport for every day use worries me . There is not likely to be buy in by the criminal element which will no doubt mean a portion of society will be exempt probably having a patch will give you exemption they have been able to waste billions of dollars already in elimination strategy to have it undone by a small number of people who care not for others , or even for their own people just their own illicit dealings . 

    Up
    2

    There will be no 'buy in' from the criminal element because they will fear it being used against them by police. 

    Sure as Sh*t, every interaction with the police will involve presenting your vaccine passport!

    For your own good of coarse.

    Up
    2

    "Those that can’t be vaccinated for medical, religious, or other reasons will have to apply for and carry a digital exemption and may have to wear masks and/or register for track and tracing - current policy at Level 3 - to be allowed in.'

    Er,  No. It is highly illogical to say there is a health risk and then allow exemptions for whatever reason. So what if you have a medical condition that prevents you from wearing a mask. If, as they are arguing, you are a risk, that's it. You are in the same camp as those that are not vaccinated for whatever reason.

    If exemptions are available, they are available for anyone that wants one, for whatever reason.

     

    Up
    3

    It's illogical if you're thinking about it from a public health viewpoint. It's perfectly logical if the idea is just to force compliance among those who can be vaccinated.

    Up
    1

    Yes, logic, like truth is the first casualty of war.

    Up
    1

    Unless the passports have an expiry date on them based on last vaccination, they are pointless.  It's efficacy wanes with time. 

    Up
    8

    They can easily sort that and digitally adjust it as required. The QR code shouldn’t have any information in it other than an identifier to look up a digital record and some security features. 

    Up
    2

    The question isn't can it be done, but rather will it be done.  The govt should front foot this and make it clear.  

    Up
    4

    Depends what the point of them is. If the point of them is to improve public health outcomes, then yeah, they're chocolate teapots.

    Up
    1

    Efficacy against infection wanes quite quickly, efficacy against serious illness or death lasts much longer.

    Up
    2

    My concern is that people that can’t get vaccinated will be excluded and exemptions won’t be accepted. This has been happening with masks now. The vaccination certificate needs to be smart enough to know when to show an exemption vs when to show a tick and allow people to be treated as if they are vaccinated. We can’t have people losing their job for not receiving a medical treatment that they can’t have. 

    Up
    2

    Yes that is concerning.

    I saw an article on Reddit the other day about a woman in Christchurch who has a valid medical exemption from wearing a mask, who was turned away from having her car serviced.

    Every comment was gleefully mocking her for not being able to participate in normal society (words to the effect of "who cares if you have an exemption, you're still a risk to others").

    Valid exemptions need to be guaranteed the same level of access to society as a vaccinated person. 

    Up
    9

    Yep. Our mental sickness as a society has become far worse than Covid. Poor woman.

    And this in Christchurch where there are no cases!

    Up
    13

    Agreed.

    This is why I'm opposed to vaccine passports on a domestic basis (don't really care for international travel as countries should be free to set any condition they like on inbound visitors).

    I am in favour of vaccination and think it's the right thing to do from a medical/health perspective, but I am vehemently opposed to creating a "two class" society on the basis of vaccine status ... especially for people who have genuine, valid reasons for not taking the vaccine (whether that is health-based, or religious).

    I have no qualms in mixing with unvaccinated people, and refuse to treat them as second class citizens, end of story.

    Up
    13

    Agreed, but it is illogical to have a passport to supposedly protect people and then to allow exemptions so people can infect them. There is no use thing as a valid exemption under the logic that is being used.

    But if we are into that type of thinking, how about we have compulsory passports, but with exemptions for all those that want them.

    Up
    1

    If I recall correctly from what family members there told me, the UK vax passport system (that never massively got off the ground for domestic purposes) functioned on that basis.

    Basically anybody could request an exemption, and the exemption would be granted and still show you as being eligible for entry.

    Up
    1

    The British - Kings of Bureaucracy for the sake of it.

    Up
    1

    Delta is out and about!

    "Covid in Kawhia - which is outside the Waikato level 3 boundary" - NZ Herald

    Get jabbed. The suppression game or whatever elimination game is over.

    Ardern and co need to level with us and tell us it's no longer manageable. 

    Up
    5

    Question, for all those people who are saying compulsory vaccine passports for all hospitality, how do you feel about kids being in the establishment with you?

    Do you want them banned from public life? Because if unvaccinated people are a real threat to you, that's the logical conclusion.

    Or is your bravado all about hatred and a herd mentality, rather than safety?

    Up
    3

    Trust me, the vaccine will be approved for kids soon - Pfizer has already submitted data.

    Don't be over dramatic.

    Up
    2

    It won’t be for under 5’s here any time soon. Being excluded because you can’t be vaccinated is a cruel thing to do. If we get vaccination rates up high enough the few that can’t be won’t be at as much risk. Think of it like disabled car parks or toilets. If everyone on can gets vaccinated, the people who can’t can be accommodated. 

    Up
    2

    ... from what I know , kids are relatively safe even if they catch C19 ... their immune systems are very strong  .... but , as you say , it's a civic duty for adults to take a jab for the team ... let's do this !

    Up
    0

    civic duty?

    Up
    1

    .. yes .. thanks for agreeing ...

    Up
    0

    Thoughts on civic duty criteria.

    1. The disease would have to present a serious enough threat to a large enough percentage of society.

    2. The vaccine would have to be exceedingly safe.

    3. The vaccine would have to provide real tangible benefit to the person receiving it beyond any shadow of doubt.

    None of those criteria have been met IMHO.  Therefore I do not regard it as my civic duty to take the vaccine.

    Up
    3

    Vaccinating children for something that does not affect them with a vaccine that still has and wont have long term trial results for many years is evil when it is essentially to save the asses of the old and the fat. 

    We do not throw our children under the bus for adults. Why is this different. Can anybody explain?

    Up
    14

    Because otherwise some old people might prematurely miss out on tax-free capital gains. 

    In all seriousness the reasoning is meant to be because having kids vaccinated reduces the number of potential spreaders.

    Up
    2

    No kidding. For who's benefit? The old and fat. (For those that I offend, I am fast becoming both)

     

    Up
    5

    It's one thing to make adults take the vaccine.

    Quite another to impose it on young kids when we don't even have the long term data in yet.

    I'd go far as to call it warped and sick.

    Up
    11

    There's a significant difference:

    • Being a child - not a matter of choice
    • Being unvaccinated - a choice 
    Up
    0

    No, it's a very valid point. It blows away the notion that not wanting to have unvaccinated people around you, is about health risk.

    It's about control and conformity.

    Up
    4

    The article is contradictory in the first statement. The EMA is asking for the mandatory carrying of digital vaccine passports to enter the workplace, with digital exemptions and extra precautions applying to those who can’t or choose not to be vaccinatedSo a passport is to be mandatory to enter a workplace, but staff can choose not to be vaccinated??  

     

    Up
    2

    Makes sense. You have to carry the passport, the passport will report whether you have had the vaccine, or not. 

    Up
    0

    I agree, everyone except for the highly esteemed Mongrel Mob, if the government trusts them so do I... 

    Up
    5

    Great idea. 1/5 of the workforce removed overnight. I am sure that will turn out fine for everyone.

    Up
    5

    I dont think they care. Its like they have their hands over their ears yelling blah blah blah. Once the hands come down and the shouting stops, they will find a miserable world. As you say lose 1/5th of the workforce and we are in big trouble. 

     

     

    Up
    5

    When push comes to shove most of the anti vaxxers will fold under pressure.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/nyregion/vaccine-health-care-workers…

    Up
    3

    Yes, that's how totalitarianism wins!

    Up
    8

    Labour has majority support = democracy not totalitarianism. 80% eligible NZers vaccinated and substantial majority support vaccination. Sour grapes if you are in the minority. Set up the "Anti vaxx Aotearoa" party if you want and see how that works out. 

    Up
    4

    Popular does not equal right.

    I am sure if asked, 80% of the population would happily remove X's ability to do Y.

    Up
    4

    The question is whether they are removing ability or adding it. If the choices are everyone in Auckland in level 3 or only the unvaccinated in level 3, then I say that is adding ability not removing it. 

    Up
    2

    I applaud your logic. Something even an anti-vaxxer would be proud of.

    Lets have a vote. We can add the ability to anyone, that allows them to kick people called Jimbo.

    "I say that is adding ability not removing it. "

    Up
    2

    Or is it 4/5 of the workforce allowed to go back to work before the lockdown ends. Depends really how long they intend to keep these passports, most other countries ditched them once the overall vax rate was high enough. 

    Up
    3

    Here's a novel idea: 

    Why doesn't the government lay out specific criteria that will see these passes dropped?

    I.e. what % vaccine uptake (or other conditions) will see us dropping these measures as have been done in some European countries like Norway? 

    The old Roman Republic provides a good analogy for this. 

    In times of crisis, a magistrate could be appointed Dictator with incredible power. He could wield that power until the crisis was over or six months had passed (whichever came first). Even our ancient ancestors understood that there is a limit to "desperate times calling for desperate measures".

    Before rolling out this vax passport make it unequivocal what the framework will be to drop it. Either specific conditions or a time limit, at which point the benefits/viability are to be re-assessed.

    Otherwise all you will do is feed into the conspiracy theories that this is really about control ... and it's not hard to see why.

     

    Up
    6

    Well they haven’t rolled the passport out yet so yes they may give an end date. Or the passport may just be more freedom at levels 3 and 4 in which case the end date is the end of those lockdowns. 

    Up
    0

    The EMA has lost it's sense of balance. They wish for "sacrifice for the common good". That's a communist agenda.

    Or if you add sugar, that's "freedom from choice". 

    I thought business involves freedom. This man can no longer see for the blinkers obscuring his sight.

    Up
    10

    "Business involves freedom"

    What does this even mean. 

    Up
    2

    So a business can freely employ someone with aids who goes around jabbing people with their blood? Or is it only ok to employ someone with Covid who is coughing on everyone?

    Up
    0

    Lunatic. Do you actually have this vision that unvaccinated people wander around as permanently infected zombies?  No - but at some point they will probably get it and recover, but then they have a better and more durable immunity than you!

    Ironically it's the smug vaccinated who will be asymptomatically spewing it everywhere because they have no signal to stay at home.

    Health protocols will tighten for anyone with flu-like symptoms, that's the answer.

    Up
    13

    No I’m just saying that businesses don’t have unlimited freedom as was implied. Businesses can’t cause a health risk. Whether unvaccinated are a risk is debatable; I certainly think they are right now in Auckland, maybe less so after the majority of us are vaccinated. 

    Up
    0

    And that is exactly what is occurring in Israel.

    Up
    1

    Right?! I wish my job felt like freedom. I've got a good job, it's not terrible, but it sure as heck doesn't feel like "freedom".

    Up
    0

    "greatest good for the greatest number" is called utilitarianism, and it's more entrenched in a democratic society than you care to admit, because it is more or less necessary. 

    Up
    0

    New slogan, "No tag, no work!"

    Everyone will be serialised- What's your number?

    Up
    2

    Yes, I agree - sterilize everyone. 

    Up
    0

    Why are we worried about the unvaccinated when its the job of the vaccine to protect people.  If you are vaccinated you can still catch and spread the virus not much differently than an unvaccinated person. So I have to ask is this about health and safety or about control over the population?  Its worth thinking about! Who knows what controls measure the Elites have planned for us next.  This is our last chance to say no

    Up
    10

    Well at the moment we are worried about the unvaccinated as our health system would implode if they all got Covid right now. The idea being that once enough people have the vaccine then it might be ok to let the small number of unvaccinated out into the wild. But until then why also lock the vaccinated away?

    Up
    1

    Indeed. Last year COVID was a disease affecting everyone now it’s simply a disease of the unvaccinated. 

    Unfortunately the unvaccinated will fill up the hospitals resulting in people with other diseases dying because of these selfish individuals.

    Up
    1

    Simple:

    1. Open up fully date of 1/12 - the have until then to get vaccinated.

    2. Ban the unvaccinated from hospitals, working, pubs, KFC.

    The Vac percentage will increase over time.

    Lets not make it more difficult than it needs to be.

    Up
    5

    Your plan is better than Labour's. 

    You should be paid the PM's salary since she can't come up with anything.

    Up
    1

    Add schools. If you're not vaccinated keep your kids at home. 

    Problem solved.

    Up
    1

    It's pretty simple. Once COVID is endemic and there are daily death counts being announced instead of daily case counts, the vaccinated will want to avoid businesses staffed by those who are not. 

    I can see some companies having to shut down because they will not be able to insist on vaccinations, nor dismiss staff who refuse, nor be viable in the economy going forward. 

    Up
    2

    .. but the vaccinated are safe? That's what a vaccine is for right?

    or are the vaccinated still unsafe?

    In which case, what difference does it make?

    Up
    0

    The mandating of any medical procedure should only be imposed by the government.  Having a business owner dictate who needs to be vaccinated when their main concern surrounds their business survivability and profit is blatantly wrong.  Coercion of people usually leads to protest and violence.  As for the idiot that said the unvaccinated will buckle.  They might, but I wouldn’t want to eat food prepared by a person angry and disgruntled by forced vaccination.  You are vaccinated, you are protected.  Go away and enjoy your good health with that waning mRNA spike protein immunity.

    Up
    5

    Could this story say at the beginning that EMA was formerly the Employers' and Manufacturers' Association, back in the day when people wrote English instead of cryptograms?

    Up
    1

    Hand wringing worry worts.

    Up
    1

    ... warts ! ... worts are the leafy-stalks & skins left over after grapes are crushed ... prior to fermentation ... 

    Teee heeeee ... I had to larf   ...

    Up
    0

    by Yvil | 6th Oct 21, 9:19am

    I couldn't care less,  open up everything now

     

    I think the tide might be turning, I expected to get grilled for my comment above, instead there are 28 thumbs up so far

    Up
    1

    i run a healthcare company -- front line 250 staff --  as much as i would love to have every single staff member fully vaccinated -- it is not goign to happen --   even if 10% of the workforce says no -- thats 25 staff i have to find that simply dont exist at the moment  - 

    Do you think supermarkets and hospitality arent also thinking this way --   we simply cant shut out a load of people from work -- which will then go on benefits - as this government has shown no inclination to target benificiaries back into work -- its certainly not going to deny them a benefit if they don't get vaccinated

    And FFS get teh bloody spell checker back ! 

     

    Up
    5

    Whats your approach to early treatments, medications to avoid a trip to hospital? 

    It seems hospitals need protection, so let's throw everything at avoiding a visit.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/coronavirus-outbreak/vaccine-updates/stor…

     

    Up
    2

    The only narrative is as follows;

    Covid is a frightening and lethal disease

    If you survive it (miracle), long covid will severely nobble you

    The only answer is vaccinate vaccinate vaccinate and vaccinate again.

    Do not discuss the benefits of losing weight and getting healthy, taking vitamins D, C and zinc under any circumstance. None. Ever. Just zip the lips ok. Heres looking at you media people...Heather, Ryan, Marcus, Simon etc. 

    And if you ever say the word Ivomec. Well go home pack your bags and head for Timbuktoo. (Or perhaps Milton)

    Laugh, smile, lie and lie again. Do not worry, noone will ask the hard questions. Just stick to the lie, and your 100% wage will keep rolling in. Unlike everyone else.

    Ignore, obfuscate, derise, any suggestion that vaccinations are causing and could cause health problems. 

    Smother all media in pro vaccine propaganda. Do not let up. Not for one minute. 

    Troll all blogsites with pro vaccine trollsters. 

    Belittle any view other than pro vaccine, name and shame these people with a label (Antivaxxer) 

    Restrict social media. Get the majors on board and delete delete delete. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Up
    2

    Just open up, no jab no access no job, just do it, wasting time talking.

    Up
    1