Will unvaccinated people, who are increasingly at risk of losing their jobs, struggle to get mortgages?
This is a question raised by an anecdote a Canterbury mortgage broker shared with economist, Tony Alexander, in his latest Mortgage Advisors Survey.
The unnamed broker told Alexander they have a vaccine-hesitant client who had their finance withdrawn due to income uncertainty.
The broker explained, “Got my first vax situation where we were about to do loan structure for build and clients advised they had been stood down as not vaxed. Advised them I'd need to let the bank know and loan would be withdrawn. Waiting to see if they will vax or not continue with the build.”
The issue here is the prospective borrower’s ability to service their debt, not their vaccination status as such.
Banks interested in borrowers' incomes
Nonetheless, the anecdote prompted interest.co.nz to ask the banks whether they will start considering vaccination status in their credit risk assessments.
The banks that have responded to the enquiry so far said they don’t ask for vaccination status, but do ask prospective borrowers about their income and whether this is likely to change.
ANZ said, “We do collect a range of information about a customer’s income and expenses as part of our affordability calculation, but vaccination status is not one of those factors.”
BNZ said, “We consider a range of factors for lending applications that ensure a customer can service their loan. We don’t ask specifically about vaccination status, but our standard process is to ask customers to advise us if their financial situation is likely to change in the near future.”
Kiwibank said, “As part of the care and diligence of a responsible lender, we’ll always enquire whether a borrower expects to see a change in their income over the next 12 months.”
ASB said, "We do not ask mortgage applicants about their vaccination status. As part of ensuring we consider a customer’s full financial position, we check whether they expect their income to change within the next 12 months – this could be due to a change in job, contract or circumstances."
Alexander: Banks unlikely to check vaccination status
Tony Alexander, who used to be BNZ’s chief economist, said he couldn’t envisage banks asking customers to disclose their vaccination status when doing credit assessments.
His view was that an unvaccinated person didn’t pose a greater risk than a vaccinated person, who could also have their income reduced for a number of reasons.
Alexander said the tight labour market means someone who loses their job might also not have too much trouble finding another one.
“The tight labour market for me is the deciding factor here,” he said.
Banks would need to prove vaccination status was necessary for credit assessment
Another question the discussion raises is whether banks could even ask prospective borrowers for their vaccination status under the Privacy Act.
Chapman Tripp law firm partner Tim Sherman said banks would need to be able to prove vaccination status affects credit risk.
He maintained a case could be made. However, another partner at the firm, Kelly McFadzien, was less certain.
She explained, “The Privacy Act requires that information can only be collected for a lawful purpose connected with a function or activity of the relevant agency, and it is necessary for that purpose…
“It’s a bit early to understand whether or not vaccination status would really be necessary for the purpose of assessing whether someone is eligible under the bank’s credit criteria.”
McFadzien said the case for health insurers requiring customers to share their vaccination status was stronger.
Both McFadzien and Sherman said that under the Privacy Act, banks would need to tell customers what the consequences of them sharing their vaccination status are.
The Government’s vaccination mandate affects around 40% of the workforce, however more employees will likely be required to be vaccinated to keep their jobs, as employers in non-mandated sectors impose their own vaccination requirements.
Only 9% of over-12s in New Zealand haven’t had at least one dose of the vaccine.
*This article was first published in our email for paying subscribers. See here for more details and how to subscribe.
85 Comments
Banks are getting worse with their breaches of the Privacy Act. Applied for a Big 4 Credit Card recently, I was asked, "What worries you at night?", "What do you want to achieve in the next few years?" and they solicit personal and sensitive information and trying to get as much data and info on you as they can as part of the dystopian future. Filed a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner and response was "As a direct result of [that] breach [of the Privacy Act], the individuals needs to suffer harm. The harm has to be significant." Basically, banks can do whatever they want and ask whatever they want and get away with it because no "harm" was done. Unfortunately, for most kiwis, they would be none the wiser and volunteer all their information to get that loan.
"Alexander: Banks unlikely to check vaccination status" however, unfortunately Alexander is not the god of the banking world so likely to be proven wrong and be has no sway on things anyways.
True, fortunately we live in a democracy and the majority have spoken, so we have to acknowledge and respect that. The real problem, and the great worry, is that there is still no really credible alternative to this Government. National have to sort their s..t out, and sooner rather than later. Collins has got to go, as she simply is not gaining any traction.
I have the strong feeling that, with a credible alternative, Labour's prospects would have collapsed by now. Not because of the vaccine mandates (with which I personally strongly agree), but because this government has repeatedly demonstrated a complete blindness towards the business community, the real economy and hard-working Kiwis. But it is not that Labour is winning, it is that National is losing, and badly if we look at the recent polls. They are losing both to the right (Seymour) and to the centre. And National must stop being the party of parasitic landlords, by the way.
Nail on the head. Labour isn't winning, National is losing. IMO this government has been poor but I firmly believe if we were operating under National that things would have been worse. TOP had the best policies (not all but as a whole their suite was best) but this country loves a popularity contest more than a political one.
A story for these times:
https://youtu.be/15QuHygLwFU
I have been vaccinated, as I don't have any faith in the third world hospital system we have here in NZ. I am not at all anti, however, definitely believe in freedom to choose. I suppose the penny will drop when it starts spreading like wildfire between the vaccinated. When all the unvaxed are excluded from super spreading events.
Yep, many vaccinated people will catch it, and some will even spread it. But the effects of the disease after vaccination are no more concerning than flu.
I am a little uneasy about mandates too, but this article is an obvious consequence. Losing your job => can't afford to pay your mortgage. Banks will protect themselves if they can.
This is exactly the situation currently playing out in Europe right now. Old mate's comment above about being "bulletproof" illustrates perfectly the holier-than-thou type mentality which will cause the next wave of COVID in this country, as hard as people may try to pin it on a small minority of unvaccinated individuals.
Just looking at the statistics, not a moral judgement. I'm 35 and healthy so my risk is very low anyway. UK data suggests vaccination reduces your chance of dying by a factor of 32. If I had a 0.01% chance of dying with a naive immune system I might be down to 0.0003% now.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarr…
You can see the impact of the vaccines very clearly by comparing to previous waves. Cases are right up there, even higher than previous waves in some European countries (possibly impacted by more widespread testing), but deaths are way, way down. The UK has almost as many cases as January 2021 and 10% of the deaths.
No, the vaccine doesn't entirely stop you catching and spreading the disease (although it does reduce your chances of both). The dramatic effect is in reducing your chance of ending up in hospital or the morgue.
Deaths are down, but governments are still imposing restrictions as cases rise regardless. The blame for these lockdowns falls squarely on the shoulders of anyone who believes that the SARS-CoV-2 virus will wait at the door of venues which require a vaccine pass to get in.
It's just a case of deciding an acceptable level of hospitalisations now. Those countries in Europe with low vaccination rates are left with little choice but bringing in restrictions. The choice is population-wide restrictions, e.g. working from home, closing shops and schools etc, or nudging (with varying degrees of force) people to get vaccinated to reduce each infected person's chance of showing up in hospital. Both lead to widespread opposition. Which do you choose?
The third alternative is allowing the health care system to be overwhelmed.
If the COVID response had anything to do with public health, we would be using the same approach as we do for every other public health issue; protect the most vulnerable, accept the unfortunate fact that there's risk in the world, and get on with our lives.
There is no reason why a first-world healthcare system should be overwhelmed if this strategy is followed. Hospitalisation rates are extremely low outside of vulnerable and high-risk populations. Any failure of the public healthcare system to take care of the general population during a pandemic is solely the responsibility of governments and politicians who have underfunded and neglected it for too many years. If we refuse to learn that lesson and try to scapegoat minorities instead, then we ensure that the problem will never be fixed.
It becomes a policy issue if there are too many Hospitalisations. I suspect the choice is between light restrictions on everyone (vaccines, masks and some social distancing), vs heavy restrictions just on the vulnerable to achieve an 'acceptable' stream of hospital cases.
You don't give any weight to the UK having >90% of their vulnerable people vaccinated?
Take a look at Bulgaria - the country in Europe with the lowest vaccination rates. Current wave has similar cases and similar deaths to previous waves - no sign of the weak having been 'weeded out'. See also, Romania and Russia.
Vaccination is the obvious reason for lower deaths.
I'm more concerned about the adverse effects from the vaccine rather than covid itself. There's plenty of high-quality evidence out there on that if you do wish to find out. It doesn't make pretty reading though.
I'm not vaccinated and do have a strategy if I get covid, it's called early-treatment as developed by various mainly US-based doctors like Dr Peter McCullough, Dr Pierre Kory et al. The key point is not to let it develop and become inflammatory enough to affect your breathing and require going to hospital. Their results are pretty astonishingly great - it's as near as you can get to a guaranteed 100% recovery. I just wish the NZ government would educate themselves and get up to speed so that we can use it here on all the people who do get covid, which includes of course many vaccinated folk.
I tell you what, I am not looking forward to these boosters. I was comatose for several days after my 2nd jab, had horrible side effects. I need it to stay employed though and I am the breadwinner in our family. I'm willing to take one more and if it's as bad as the second forget it.
Trouble is, it's taboo to say anything against the vaccine. I've seen comments get deleted on the mainstream news sites if anyone post something about their experience. It's wrong.
It's worth asking questions. In the guidelines I've seen at a DHB, there seems to be some wiggle room to get a temporary exemption until another vaccine type is available. Perhaps you can hold off and get a more traditional AstraZeneca vaccine if you didn't do well with Pfizer?
AFAIK you can get the AZ vaccine from 26th (it has to be booked online though).
It's going to be a nightmare for many if every six months you have to be wiped out with side effects just to continue working.
It's taken me almost three months to feel back to normal after my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. I've had hundreds of dollars in doctor bills and tests, and thousands in lost business revenue from not being able to work at my normal rate.
I'm not writing off half the year (3 out of 6 months, times two boosters per year) every year just to keep up-to-date with requirements ... I'll do my two to get my passport, and then if the world hasn't regained any sense of sanity by the time that expires I think I'll become a hermit, or find somewhere else to move that is a little more reasonable.
It would seem you are making a personal decision based on scientific information that goes against the overwhelming majority of the worlds medical and public health professionals.
For any type of disease prevention and treatment that seems like an incredibly risky strategy but I wish you good luck in not just your own health but the impact of your choice on others in your community.
I think jab is great but making people take it to keep job is way to far if people start using passports when will it stop your freedoms are being eroded this is just the start of total control of people. Just say no to showing passports what will they do we have the power not the few in government.
Choose your destination carefully. Many Countries have some form of vaccine mandate and in Austria they plan to make it compulsory for everyone. Life not looking much fun in the USA or Europe (Particularly Netherlands and Germany) at the moment. Canada could be ok if you avoid the bits underwater. I think getting vaccinated and staying in NZ is probably the best bet at the moment.
All my family are in the UK, they are over it and not even talking about it anymore, and no one in the workplace is entitled to know your vaccination status as it is personal medical information protected by the data protection act, the only time you have to disclose, AT THE MOMENT THAT IS, is if you are working in an old age care facility.
An admirable approach to not talk constantly about covid. Perhaps there are some in NZ who have taken a position on not getting vaccinated that might benefit from viewing the infection and death stats from the UK and other western countires.
The UK is holding pretty steady on 15/million deaths per week. That is equivalent to 75 people a week in NZ dieing of covid19.
Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/weekly-trends/#weekly_table
My sister is in the UK. She says its great as long as you don't get sick. 13 hour wait for A&E and queues of ambulances. The grass may look greener overseas but I am perfectly happy with the paddocks in Waikato.
I read in the herald the other day that Japan has miraculously transitioned from exponential growth in covid cases to almost zero covid. Bear in mind that Japan has a high population density and a lot of old folks. The Herald had some genetic mutation explanation. I guess it’s pure coincidence that on August the 13th during the exponential growth in cases the government of Japan allowed the use of Ivermectin to treat covid. 12 days after the introduction of ivermectin cases began declining rapidly to almost zero. India likewise adopted ivermectin, and subsequently saw their cases drop to almost zero. Another coincidence, I guess?
Wow. Dr. John is really losing it.
He presents absolutely no medical evidence whatsoever for that claim. He's gone down the rabbit hole of "interesting coincidences".
We're not even certain if they are using ivermectin, or to what degree. His only 'evidence' for that is one poorly translated article.
And even if they are using Ivermectin to treat people who have covid, explain exactly how has that has also somehow stopped other random people catching it?
Must be a miracle. Praise Jesus.
My workplace is currently 'consulting' on a no jab/no job, policy.
One of the conditions is that you stay upto date with the boosters.
Then you read about how the FDA approved the vaccine in 108 days, but the FDA have requested the courts to give them 75 years to release the documentation on the approval process. WTF...
https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/18/fda-requests-year-2076-publish-data-…
I think a lot of people (myself included) have been onboard with the vaccine, but reading articles like that has surely got to raise some concern.
The Daily Caller site is very dodgy indeed. Be careful falling down their worm tunnels.
Reuters is considered a reputable site and they're questioning this process by the FDA too.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-p…
Perhaps mortgage applicants should be asked to submit full medical records?
They could also develop their own applicant fitness test - model it on the fire or police service.
After all, the banks discriminate on age, which is effectively a 'health' reason.
The possibilities are endless.
Im no labour fan, but its easy to sit on the sidelines as opposition and throw stones. I really dont think the other clowns would make an iota of difference to where we are, different names but the song would remain the same.
Also since when did a red light mean carry on, but slowly.
The short and curlies are that successive idiots in power have neglected our health system, and here we are... the bike lanes are great though eh.
How wonderful our country would have been over the past 2 years of the pandemic. Just imagine crusher leading the charge!
Business leaders, "judith, we need to keep the economy moving"
Judith, "but what about the harm and loss of life to people if we had few lockdowns and borders open"
Business leaders, "$$$$$$$"
Judith, "Right you are"
Its your income not your vaccine status that matters. If you job requires being vaccinated, and many will, then there is a definite link there. No brainer in the health and safety dominated society we operate in. Who wants their brand on national TV as the source of an outbreak because they were slack in managing the risks.
it opens the gates to abuse the power and insane corruption. the current media will never post the truth, they just silence you. facebook will delete your post, youtube will delete your video. google mail makes it possible that you will never get an email. everywhere false news. once someone did not like you they will pull the switch and you no longer can have hair cut, loan in the bank, go to the cinema and even get a job. and even if you will want to leave this hell hole you can't. because you can't board airplane. just need to swim across the ocean. north korea can only dream about it.
Comments closed now. Too many low-quality / conspiracy-style here.
---
OK, I have been talked out of closing comments at this point. But please keep them on-point and respectful. And don't think that pointing to offshore conspiracy sites is 'research'. It isn't; it is just superficial and lazy confirmation bias. grrr
Oh yes it’s easy to dismiss dissenting views isn’t it.
So far I’ve had five PCR tests and dozens of antigen tests. It’s cost me personally about $400 NZD, but it’s cost the tax payer far more. Every single test was against my will, and a complete waste of time money and resources because I’ve already had covid. But my word means nothing to the government. My understanding from reading, among others, Stanley Perlman’s papers (like this or this) on SARS-CoV is that natural recovery afforded my adaptive immune system long lived T-cells and B cell memory that’s far superior what the mrna transfection agents provide. If the government was really worried about reducing the hospital burden then why not stratify risk by age and health status in order to focus resources where they’re needed? Why not boost the nations immune system by making sure everyone has the right immune cofactors at the right concentration - vitamin D3 at or above 50 ng/mL and zinc at whatever it’s supposed to be? Why not use early treatments that don’t cost much, and have dozens of clinical trials supporting their efficacy? Why the heck is is the government force vaccinating recovered people? In doing so they’re risking my health for nothing, and taking away my freedoms. They’re wasting my money and the taxpayers money. They’re tearing the nation in half. I’m not antivax, I’m pro-logic and pro-choice!
We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.
Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.