Asking prices for new house sale listings rose slightly in July from June, as the market remained in favour of sellers, realestate.co.nz says.
The 1% monthly rise in average asking prices to NZ$429,181 continued a rising trend since mid-2010, CEO Alistair Helm said. Asking prices were up 4% from July last year, he said
Meanwhile, a "healthy influx" of new listings through July eased pressure on falling winter inventory levels. There were 9,411 new listings during the month, down 2% from June, but up 5% on July last year.
Inventory levels - a measure of the number of weeks of equivalent sales - rose to 31 weeks in July from 29.8 weeks in June. Levels were down from 35.7 weeks in July 2011.
Following June's record four year low for inventory, prompted by ongoing high demand for property, the influx of new listings kept pace with the previous month’s new listings, preventing a further drop, Helm said.
“Recent months have placed some stress on the market for buyers, with the shortage of new listings along with higher numbers of sales placing the market’s favour firmly in sellers’ hands,” he said.
“July was certainly not a bad month for buyers. June sales were down slightly from May, which has caused the inventory to lift back up to 31 weeks, but this is still well below the long term average of 40 weeks. Sellers still clearly have the upper hand, but buyers do have some richer choices now.”
The continued sellers’ market prompted the "slight, but not unexpected lift in asking prices." The average NZ$429,181 asking price was led this time by record highs for asking prices in Canterbury," Helm said.
“The clear signal from the July data was one of market stability, but whether that will persist remains to be seen. However, as winter winds down in the coming month, buyers and sellers will no doubt increase their activity in anticipation of spring, which may shift the balance again," he said.
New highs in Canterbury
There was a significant range of variances for asking prices across the 19 regions of the country, Helm said.
"The main 3 centres all showed [monthly] rises with Auckland reporting a 3% increase, marginally beaten by Wellington at 3.1%. Both of these centres though failed to set a new record high asking price - that was left to Canterbury which for the 3rd consecutive month set a new record at NZ$393,433, up 0.9% from June on a seasonally adjusted basis," he said.
"In total 9 regions reported asking price rises with the Coromandel the largest riser up 8.6% to $421,153. Of the 10 regions witnessing asking price falls on a seasonally adjusted basis there were 4 reporting greater than 5% with Northland and Nelson reporting over 10% falls, the latter seeing a 16.8% fall."
Housing inventory
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65 Comments
I was contemplating the seasonal aspect the other day considering the claims about the current Auckland market.
If the Chinese exodus of money flooding into our Real Estate is strong, then potentially the conventional spring flush in the market could be reversed. Northern hemisphere buyers are acting in their spring and summer.
Poor Justice, your comments on housing sound more and more desperate.
You are a bell-weather my friend. The more strident you get the stronger I know the market is. It's an iron law of interest.co.nz.
I don't need to do any market research when you are around.
I fully expect you to keep complaining about housing too.
That's great. Thank you, on behalf of all property investors.
Your Landlord
You know he's right and that this market is getting unsafe. Why else would you be trying to convince us otherwise? What you seem to be doing is trying to convince yourself that it's OK. Typically with somebody unpleasant I wouldn't bother trying to enlighten, but here goes...
- What is talked about on this board means nothing. If an owner of rentals, you are reliant on the financial health of renters. By wishing their hardship, you are digging your own grave.
- Those of us, like your renters, have nothing to lose if the market goes down. You do. And it's leveraged.
- If the market goes up, yes you make a leveraged gain, but this will create a side effect elsewhere, like increased costs, etc. Do you have children of your own who are struggling?
- While you have the advantage of booking any gains, you are at a disadvantage in that you have already taken your position. Some of us have not, meaning it may be one of us who relieves you at distressed prices down the track. It has happened before and will happen again.
- You really control none of this so ultimately are gambling. The gamblers who survive are those who quit while ahead (or sell in a sellers market). You seem to think this will go on forever, which suggests you will be one of those who try to dump everything in a falling market, reinforcing the momentum.
- Factors people quote to support this market are all the usual bullish BS, (immigration, scarcity, replacement, tax, blah, blah, blah.) but these will always be trounced by one thing; SENTIMENT. Yes, it's at your back currently, but I would sugest to you, the more gushy, the more likely it will disappear just a quick as it came about. That's just the nature of human emotion. Once the sentiment is against the market nothing will stop it from falling. That again is the nature of humans like you who won't know how far it will fall and so naturally will want to reduce holdings if exposed. It has already happened everywhere (other than Sydney, HK, Vancouver) and the bullish guys in those jurisdictions were laughing like you saying it could never happen, until it did.
- What will change the sentiment? Theorectically it should be that it's just too expensive and the market runs out of new suckers who are prepared to stand closer to the edge than yourself. But the trigger seems to be always something that no one saw coming. So that's anybody's guess.
- Lastly, and I try not to be personal here, but I do think you're being presumptious when stating you speak on behalf of "all property investors". You don't. Most people understand life is a delicate balance that can be tipped at any time. You may need friends some day, but I cannot help feeling ill will towards you, so naturally will try not to do anything that helps you to continue. Apart from this post.
PS: I am here buying in Los Angeles right now and note most places are down 60% if there was a transaction around '05-06 and no major improvement since then. Some of these people have obviously been trying to sell during the downturn and have had to keep reducing their price, to no avail. Up to about 800k more than half all properties for sale are in distress, EG: short sale, foreclosure, bank owned, etc. Check it out on zillow.com if you don't believe me. LA is a huge vibrant city on the PacRim and so I ask, what makes AKL any different over the fundament long term?
When you decide to de-stress him (and that makes or will make sense), well actually his bank as he will be long gone, make sure the fall really has bottomed....I think its got the makings of a loooooong drop, at least 50%...
and yes I think he's in here trying to convince himself he's safe and "making" shed loads of $....
regards
Greater LA is many markets with a population above 10 million. Aim for the lower end of the top tier properties be it Auckland or LA and you will do fine.
We sold our property in Santa Monica this year for twice its 2007 valuation... in the worst local economy they have ever expeiences since the depression.
Simple reality is there will always be people with money and a quality property which is relatively affordable to peer properties is liquid.
The great middle class are the ones going to get screwed so if you are in this market place then expect to be burned in property if you did not get in early...simply!
Doesn't matter who and where you are. It has also happened quicker in the US because of non-recourse loans...
ps Great parts of LA are a dump and walking into parts of it makes you think you are entering the poor parts of Latin America.... it was never an investment purely consumption of a home.
Dear idlebumski, thank you for spending so much time and concern in your response to me. I am honoured you should do so.
But don't worry mate, all's well here. I am having the time of my life watching the property market go around and reading all the doom and gloom brigade's moans.
"Lovin' it" as they say.
PS: Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone in property is a speculator or borrowed to the neck. You can save your scorn and pity for others. All the best.
Urm. To Your Landlord and lessor degree to SK.
In hindsight, might have been a bit OTT earlier. Sorry. Sitting by the pool in the hot sun with alcohol and all that. Bit more sober now. And certainly didn't mean for it to come across as scornful, just wanted to test and challenge some of your assertions.
Am going to attend a big American-style rah-rah PI seminar here in LA on Thurs, which should be interesting. More knowledge can't hurt, and will report back anything of 'interest'.
Would love that, mate! I came here in '87 first time as teenager, on my own, and loved it from first minute, kept coming back for holidays. Finally plucked up courage to move here, without green card '99, got married '02, divorced '04 (if married 2 years or longer green card can be kept). Stayed until '08 then moved back to NZ. Now dual res, back and forth with biz interests here and NZ, and finally getting some traction in life. Hopefully this isn't against any of BH's T's&C's, but I'm at gmail, same moniker...
Oh no idlebumski...don't do it!
Please don't go to some PI seminar.
You will wind up the type of PI everyone on interest.co.nz thinks they are.
Instead, buy books...biographies...investment...whatever...and read...read...read.
Then read...read...read...all sorts.
But the last thing to even consider is going on a bloody PI course.
Please, do yourself a favour and stay away from them.
All the best to you in your endeavours.
Thank you idlebumski for putting forward those good, straight forward reasons.
You are in a great spot, as if I could get out of Auckland, I would tomorrow !
Sure, Auckland is an OK place ...but no better than many places around the world .... where property prices are much cheaper.
Why pump NZ $1.3 mil into a delapidated, damp, cold, old property somewhere in Westmere of all places and waiting for the next sucker to pay you more for what you paid for it !
When for that money in $US which is approx. just over $1 mil you could have a real palace in a really good part of LA !
BUT you know the problem.... nearly all of these AKL PI's haven't even been out of the country.....
If they think that rich Chinese buyers are going to save them here in little ol' Auckland ..... think again ! Once the NZD devalues, their money wil be outta here like a rat up a drainpipe ....
Then who is going to pay ???
That AKL is currently a sellers market is not in dispute, so being a cash buyer, I'd be crazy to. It's the same as being a seller in a buyers market; All wrong.
It's hard to believe what has happened in a place like Las Vegas where most of the locals there must have blown their credit or something, because houses there are SO CHEAP, and the rental market so strong. Now that is a buyers market. This link is to zillow.com, where I think it will come up with max to 50k selection of condos and standalone houses. With couple hundred k you can buy half doz or so places and create passive income right from the get go. Very tempting.
Property mgmt offers turn-key solution approx 8-10% of the rental yield, and designed for absentee buyers. This and other places in USA is where many of your Chinese buyers are active, but places like Florida, Phoenix, North Carolina, etc harder for us Kiwis to get to. Las Vegas and places like Portland, outskirts of LA, towns up and down inner CA, relatively easy.
Unlike the assumption most people make, you DON'T NEED green card to buy property in USA. Your tourist visa gives you 3 months each time, which is what Canadian snowbirds use for their winter places in USA.
So buying in AKL right now seems like pure insanity, especially when providing some with a dream exit that it doesn't feel like they deserve.
Iblebumski ok got your email, will email you, just come home to NZ for a couple of family things and back in the US late August.
You need to really know your market not to get burned in US property, actually any property. There are so many micro-markets just even in one city as you will realise. The better US markets are starting to improve now, most of us who bought up in 2007 are now starting to offload gradually as some people get back on their feet can secure finance.
Las Vegas as an example, the finance industry lost total confidence in the market, even today the majority of property transactions are in cash, people can not secure finance to buy as the banks are blocking. Naturally liquidity in this market is impaired.
Their weather patterns are changing and people in the know realise Vegas is built on a slope, half the place floods now with the rain. A good reason for excess stock as well.
This is not a market which will recover quickly and also offers no quick exit startegy if you require it.
What you want is an area that will recover, you buy low... so worst case you are in a position to undercut the market to rent long term, still with a reasonable yield, ideally best case you have the capital gain and/or hold as a long term rental.
Smart money in the past twelve months is buying into Rio, strength of economy, FIFA world cup 2014 and next Olympics. Even that opportunity is starting to close.
Speckles Thx for the tips about LV, especially the flooding, which is definitely an insurance concern. Judging by the prices vs. rental income it's clear financing is a huge impediment for most locals. Tried to tell some of them that back in '06 when they were refinancing away their equity but nobody wanted to listen - and to be fair I needed comms to pay my bills, so wrote up the new notes anyway. Coincidentally, earlier today had breakast with savvy local friend, and he told me something I had never considered... "Buy apartment in Brazil, for next Olympics." He's tuned in as is married to one. And now you tell me same. Twice in one day. Needless to say, I look forward meeting you.
BTW idlebumski I did a residential property "surveillance trip" last November to Phoenix, AZ & Memphis, TN ... I was really impressed with Phoenix, really nice properties, well built and then it was definitely a buyers markets, however in those 8 months prices have increased but there are still great buys there. Also many large industries there for jobs etc.
Like you, I went to the US as a teenager and loved it, in fact been there 4 times in the last 6 years. Still amazes me today how many kiwis do not realise just how much (too much) they are paying for property....also the overall standard of living in the States with an average job is way higher than NZ. Plus the outdoors is what I love and there is plenty of that there ....in fact, have a look at Joshua Tree National Park, CA .wonderful and not far from LA.
I am looking to make a move very shortly in Phoenix, have a very good contact (trustworthy family friend) who works in property there. I also found Phoenix easy to get to ...straight off at terminal 2 and turn left to terminal 1 for your under 1 hour flight to Phoenix ... and the traffic is not as bad !
No real worries about whether I have a green card or not, as as you mentioned you can still buy residential property there and come and go on a tourist visa.
Just a quick question for you - if you can invest USD 500,000 into a business there that employs 2 or more Americans, could you get residence on a Business Visa ?
Anyway, good luck with your endeavours in the US idlebumski ....you are on the right track and haven't got "all your eggs in one basket" as so many on this site have.....
Yea, in hindsight admit that Phoenix is within easy range. I know exactly what you mean regarding housing that has been built contemporary times in places like SouthWest. It's all BIG and due things like thicker carpet padding, heavier doors/windows, better soundproofing, ducted a/c, pools etc, really seems to feel 'substantial'.
Not too sure about business visa. Looked at this back when I was trying to figure out how to get here and it just seemed too hard. Min 1,000,000 invested or employing 10 people is what I vaguely remember. IMHO coming here and being required to plunge that sort of cash into economy is sure fire way to lose it. So you might be better off just going into lottery every year. In the last year I tried ('98), found info on how many were won by Kiwi's versus how many entered and it worked out to be a 1 in 28 ratio. Not too bad considering it's free to enter. Judging by your question, assume you are already married, as that really is the easiest way... Just have to keep in mind you will be required to stay married for more than two years to be safe, with timeframe starting from day you are first interviewed by the feds, which can be upwards a year after actual marriage date. The quickie options in Las Vegas is a good place to get this process begun, he, he.
Thank you for your reply idlebumski
Yep, those houses in Phoenix blew me away with the design and build quality !
Regarding entering the US on a business visa, you are right and to go there and "jump into something" would be foolish for many reasons....unless you had a pool of people there you could totally trust ...even then I would still have to do much ground work.
I find the Americans do much of their business based on "who you know" rather than what you know. They like to get to know you first and I find that they are just so easy to get along with ... very amiable and always open to new ideas.
The funny thing about my wish to get into the US has a freakish twist. After I married my wife (a kiwi) I found out that her grandfather was a US born and bred citizen who found his way to NZ (huge long story!! ) ..anyway the upshot is through my wife we have relatives in the States and one of them, who we have met (wife's 1st cousin) happens to be a DA in Northern CA and had offered to help if we ever wanted to. I am sure that could help .... now just have to convince my wife !!! :)
Cheers Crazy Horse
In general, there are two types of people on this forum (and in life):
The Fundamentalists know houses are historically overvalued and are waiting for the balance to restore. This is inevitable in a long enough timeframe. They are sitting on the sidelines waiting for for the correction but don't know how long they'll be sitting there. They are constantly taunted by everyone else and the media but have nothing to fear.
The Herdists follow what the current state is and project that forward.The thinking goes along the lines of "I am making money now, the majority says things are looking good so I will continue to make money". One big downturn and their leveraged investments will blow them up. If you are in this camp, you should be afraid but you are not as you believe you know better.
Pick your camp and let the battle begin.
To be fair, there are also The Smart Ones. They have capital - don't need borrowing and get in and out and in and out and in and out - have been doing so for years likely - know how to play the long game if need be and can afford to do so.
The key to being a Smart One is understanding that how you buy is far more important than how you sell.
LOL, you love assuming Landlord. I have no skin in the game mate, I'm 100% debt free and run a product design company which is also 100% debt free and making a healthy profit for the 6th year running.
I can ' afford' to be impartial and objective ..........UNLIKE yourself. I have no vested interest in property other than fairness for the next generation.
You take care buddy
Good quote from Newstalk ZB's Larry Williams tonight:
HOUSE PRICES
Reserve Bank governor Alan Bollard says that house prices still look "overvalued and expensive".
That has got to be an understatement.
NZ house prices are quite simply ridiculous. They are way over priced. You get much better bang for your buck in comparable countries. Paying a million bucks for an old villa in Grey Lynn will eventually come back to bite people in the bum. Its a recipe for disaster.
I suppose compared to the one of the most expensive "markets" in the world, a semi run down suburb in little old Auckland, at the bottom of the world in a small country of 4 million with low wages struggling to make ends meet , does seem like a bargain. When the crap really hits the fan guess where the hot money will be repatriated? Hint: won't be Auckland or New Zealand
Speckles He must be, because it's a kind of a preposterous thing to say. Generally speaking most people out there are programed (almost like religious drones) to be proud and thankful for what they have, manifesting itself in civic pride or whatever you want to call it. So in Adelaide, Indianapolis, Manchester, Montreal, Cape Town etc, there are legions in these places who all firmly believe theirs is the best place to live. And if SK is right about AKL, then everybody else is right about theirs.
Sorry, but net gain for fundamental reasons why AKL prices should boom in the short-ish term going forward, is still zero.
http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-report-2011#City-Rankings
Auckland number 3 in the world - regular international rankings - from Mercer a completely unbiased group.
Have to get out of that small village mentality and think globally people.
And the year earlier number 4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_Living_Survey
End of story.
Auckland is a nice city but over rated, the traffic is awful and the weather is not great (lots of wind and rain in winter and damp, only two real months of summer), and those two factors alone seriously arode its liveability in my opinion.
And it is certainly very much overpriced (not just housing but general cost of living). We have bought a section here in Adelaide just on the edge of a suburb equivalent to Grey Lynn in terms of location and "feel", and will be paying all up about 400K once we have built. If we were in Auckland we would be talking double that.
I totally agree with your comments re Auckland having lived there for most of my life. I'm interested that you have bought land in Adelaide as I live here too, albeit renting currently as prices seem to be falling slowly but steadily. Are you able to disclose which area you bought land and did you manage to secure a good price for a good size section? Regards
Egg Head
It's West Croydon, about 10 mins train trip into the CBD, got the groovy Grey Lynn-ish cafes / shops on Queen Street
As I said section plus building (compact 3 bedroom townhouse) will cost us 400K max (conservative budget). It's a smallish section just over 300 square metres
Amazing value relative to somewhere like Grey Lynn
Thks for the reply MIA. Parts of Adelaide are certainly alot cheaper than Auckland suburbs like Grey Lynn. Having said that, with all due respect, 400K does not seem particularly cheap for a new 3 bed town house on 300 sq mtrs land even though you may be 10 mins from the city. Due to the geography of Adelaide, you can be in all central suburbs within 10 mins - and get some great value 15 or 20 mins out from CBD. It will be interesting to see what 400K can buy here in 2 or 3 yrs as prices are definately falling. In the mean time I will happily rent near the west coast of the CBD (modern 3 bed maisonette for 330 per week with solar panels) and see what pans out in the world. All the best anyway.
Egg Head
Yeah, but in that location we'll be able to survive on one car rather than needing two, which is great from a financial perspective.
there are certainly some pricey areas in Adelaide, but what I find is that there are more affordable options in the middle range than Auckland - a lot more of the Ellerslie type of suburb, at prices significantly cheaper
How long you been here? not that many kiwis here ey compared to the east coast
In my opinion Adelaide is the most under-rated city in Aus
Yes, that is true - we use one car too as we are a 5 min walk to the CBD tram. Having said that, a couple of thousand depreciation on an average car p.a. wouldn't steer me towards a particular suburb within 20 mins of CBD. We have been here 4 1/2 yrs now and your right, not many kiwis here at all - which is suprising. Maybe a lack of Rugby League and no Gold Coast nearby scares them off eh lol! Perhaps Bernard can arrange for us to swap email addresses privately so we can chat some more offline? How about it Bernard?
Congrats MIA.. Like you I am amazed how far once can stretch the dollar here in AUS. Small example; just got our hot water switched over from electricity to Natural Gas - all up it cost us well under $1500. The last time I did the same change over in Auckland, the permit alone was $550 plus other compliances cost, it was nearly $800 before we can even start !
Auckland is one big rip off. I've had friends who have had to hand over more than $3000 for a resource consent for fairly minor house additions. Here in Adelaide, you will usually pay $150 max for such applications
And being in the land-development related sector it sure is good not having to hand over 30-40K in development contributions per section or house - what a rort that is!!!!!
Larry Williams doesn't know diddly-squat about house prices.
He doesn't make the market.
The market is made of thousands of buyers and sellers who decide for themselves.
They decide what is ridiculous and over priced and what is cheap.
They know that building an "old villa" in Grey Lynn is cheaper than building new one anytime.
A million bucks is is a bargain by that standard when you take into account current land and building costs.
The market rules- not Larry Williams.
28_29 - it's a flash in the pan!
Predictions? Who knows! But one thing I am confident of, there is not going to be a prolonged boom. As to whether this burst turns into a gradual inflation of house prices at aroud the pace of inflation, or whether things bust again, I just don't know, and wouldn't right off either scenario. I suspect a bust would only occur if there was a serious deterioration in the NZ economy, which might occur if things keep getting worse internationally.
We are living in very unpredictable, volatile times and that's why I believe it is foolhardy to assume anything at this point
The aussies seem very relieved that they are finally ahead of little ole NZ!!!!!!! Their angst at being behind NZ has been quite bizarre!
Cash is king the purchaser calls the tune.
The speculative hype around property is all rubbish, don't believe a word from these spruker spin doctors.
Over borrowing well leave you vulnerable to these sharks who manifest themselves in our corrupt and un-ethical real estate industry. i.e. the recent case in Queens Town etc...
hehehehe I agreed with you until you qualified it with "real estate industry" Its not just them.....at the start of chain the banks here are at the least ammoral. Pollies seem no better, Labour has left us with a mess they could have fixed and I cant believe they didnt see it....huge minus for Cullen, I wouldnet even be so kind as to say inept. National in the form of BE would have just stoked the market even more and, are now possums in the headlights of an oncoming 20 year depression. I mean even if we break even in 2014, and thats dubious the actual debt payback goes out decades (2050?). So 5~10% drag on our economy in a already bad depression for 30+ years....
and thats just the debt weighing on our economy....
throw in the expectations of BBs....they will expect payouts and healthcare, and when their "investments" dont pay up as much as they need/want they'll sell into an awful market double trouble...
and then there will be expensive energy, instead of 2 or 3% of GDP going on fuel it will be 6~8%....that alone causes a recession.
and ppl think its a great idea to buy? loony......
regards
With interest rates at all time lows, in fact a unheard of lows, bidding up house prices may seem like a good idea. Look forward a little and consider where interest rates will go and actually should be given the global demand for borrowing. NZ government borrowing 300 million a week is unsustainable. Its highly unlikely that the governments need to borrow will reduce in the foreseeable future given the global economic situation. When house prices where this high, economists believed that economic cycles had been tamed. The USA has record deficits with no plan for reduction. USA middle class has shrinking incomes, negetive interest rates on savings, house prices still going down.
Where I live currently, in the Netherlands, a country with a positive balance of trade, a 4% deficit, mortgage interest is tax deductable, houses are extremely difficult to sell and have been since 2008, they sit on the market for years literally, the last 3 houses we have rented are all for sale. House prices are going down.
GDP of most of the western world prior to 2008 was based on debt driven consumption, the debt was secured against rising house prices, that situation has gone. What exisited then was phony economies, economies that were unsustaineble. That level of economic activity cannot return, as the value of assets that under wrote the debt was inflated by lax lending, unrealistic economic out look and government intervention that distorted that market and on top of that a massive fraud in loan documentation across the US.
NZ will sooner or later have to cut its cloth to fit also. Unless the government does something about the deficit, it will eventually be forced to. Look at the rate of debt growth for NZ government. http://j.mp/N018jT. What is changing to turn that around? NZ politicians have no stomach to tell the electorate that spending must be cut.
Don't believe what you read in the media, most of these so called economic experts that are quoted on a regular bases did not see the crash of 2008 coming. Why would you expect them to see the next one? http://j.mp/L32BnJ
http://www.mercer.com/press-releases/quality-of-living-report-2011#City-Rankings
Auckland number 3 in the world - regular international rankings - from Mercer a completely unbiased group.
Have to get out of that small village mentality and think globally people.
And the year earlier number 4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_Living_Survey
End of story.
SK - you need to put those surveys into context - they are viewed from the perspective of big corporates looking to expatriate employees around the globe. So Auckland seems like good value. Of course for an expat located in Parnell and commuting to the CBD, and earning big pounds, Auckland would seem great - if you are earning 100,000 pounds a year! The surveys don't review quality of living from a NZ permanent resident perspective. One would think that the cost of housing relative to incomes would be a good measure of liveability! But such surveys don't measure that (for obvious reasons if you look at their purpose)
none of the above is to deny that generally speaking Auckland is a good place to live - but 4th in the world? Personally I doubt it
Why does everyone blather on about Auckland , when there's so many other comparable subtropical paradises around our great country to choose from ....
.... what does Auckland possess that you can't find in equal measure in Cheviot , Parnassus , Buller ....... Dipton !
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