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NZ’s electricity market is a mess. Rolling out rooftop solar would change the game, Stephen Poletti, Bruce Mountain & Geoff Bertram say

Public Policy / opinion
NZ’s electricity market is a mess. Rolling out rooftop solar would change the game, Stephen Poletti, Bruce Mountain & Geoff Bertram say
solar
Getty Images.

By Stephen Poletti, Bruce Mountain & Geoff Bertram*

Wholesale prices in the New Zealand electricity market have soared over recent weeks, climbing as high as NZ$1,000 per megawatt hour. North Island pulp and paper plants have temporarily closed down because of the spike in costs.

Associate Energy Minister Shane Jones has accused the big energy generators of profiteering, and said the government was investigating ways to force them to cut prices.

On top of that, Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced plans to investigate the feasibility of importing liquid natural gas (LNG) to help increase gas-generated electricity supply and lower prices in the process.

This would entail buying or renting a floating LNG terminal and building out complementary infrastructure such as pipelines. That would take a minimum of a year (more likely two or three years) and would be expensive, with imported gas prices considerably higher.

A much better option, we suggest, would be to prioritise the expansion of rooftop solar throughout New Zealand. This could not only add significantly to the overall electricity supply, but also help bring down prices.

Rooftop solar at scale

The immediate cause of the crisis is low hydro-lake levels, combined with a long-term reduction in the supply of natural gas. Exacerbating this is the market power wielded by the big electricity generator-retailer companies (“gentailers”), which are set up to profit during times of scarcity.

Electricity supplied by gas-fired generation has steadily declined. Since 2015, almost 600 megawatts of gas plant capacity has been decommissioned, with no new additions.

The Electricity Authority’s 2023 study, “Ensuring an Orderly Thermal Transition”, found the decline in gas-powered generation will continue. By 2032, this thermal generation is projected to be just 1.4% of total generation, compared to 14% currently.

An updated announcement from the Electricity Authority in June this year says Contact Energy’s largest thermal gas unit will retire this year or next. Furthermore, Genesis Energy has announced plans to use biomass to power some of its gas turbines.

Existing gas generation will increasingly struggle to compete on price with new wind and solar renewables, which are getting cheaper all the time.

Grid-scale renewable electricity supply is expanding gradually. By 2025, there are expected to be 270 megawatts of new geothermal, 786 megawatts of additional solar, and 40 megawatts of new wind power. The combined total would add almost 10% to the country’s yearly electricity production.

To alleviate the energy supply shortfalls primarily attributable to low rainfall, we suggest rapidly expanding cheap solar photovoltaics (PV), specifically rooftop solar for ordinary households. Our soon-to-be-published research suggests such capacity can be expanded quickly and cheaply.

Based on the Australian experience, we estimate modest subsidies for the capital cost of installing solar rooftop systems would add the equivalent of 700 megawatts a year (2% of the total) to the electricity supply. This significant new supply will reduce electricity prices.

The Clyde Dam: hydro power could become a source of stored energy for evening demand peaks. Getty Images.

NZ’s energy advantage

New Zealand is in the enviable position of already having abundant hydro power capacity. But with increasingly uncertain rainfall due to changing climate patterns, adding widely distributed rooftop solar would mean the country was less vulnerable to lower lake levels.

This would mean the precious water flowing into the hydro lakes could be held back in the dams to meet evening peaks when solar is no longer available.

Other countries – most notably Australia, Italy, Germany, Spain and Portugal – have made much more progress than New Zealand in the expansion of photovoltaics. The European Commission has adopted policies to double rooftop solar over the next four years.

Australia’s energy market operator expects rooftop solar (which already supplies almost three times as much electricity annually as gas generators do) will become the dominant source of electricity supply over the next two decades.

None of those countries have the energy storage advantage New Zealand has. And they are all now having to develop expensive grid-scale battery solutions to store solar power produced in the middle of the day for evening use.

New Zealand’s huge hydro storage advantage means photovoltaics, particularly rooftop systems, can unlock real benefits for customers.

This could mean shifting the management of the legacy hydro assets to provide a high-value product – stored energy – rather than the gentailers simply using hydro generation to maximise profits.

There may even be an argument for revisiting the current market framework and returning those hydro assets to public ownership.

In the meantime, we encourage the energy minister to make the expansion of rooftop solar the top option for expanding the electricity supply and tackling the gentailer power that bedevils the market. He will almost certainly find it quicker, cheaper and more popular than importing gas.The Conversation


*Stephen Poletti, Associate Professor Energy Economics, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau; Bruce Mountain, Professor and Director, Victoria Energy Policy Centre, Victoria University, and Geoff Bertram, Visiting Scholar, School of History, Philosophy, Political Science and International Relations, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington.

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

102 Comments

Given the Government is happy to throw $2billion on uneconomic projects, then yes, installing solar panels as proposed is probably a lot less terrible than investing in an LNG terminal. 

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importing LNG would help in a dry year, less emissions than our current strategy of importing coal.

You can't spin up extra solar during a dry year.

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Natural gas only has lower emissions than coal if you can virtually eliminate leaks, this paper estimates that a leakage rate as low as 0.2% brings gas emissions to be on par with coal. I haven't seen any study of what the leakage rates in NZ, but the EPA estimates it at 1.4% in the US, though more recent studies suggest the number is much higher. Maybe coal isn't so bad.

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I'm waiting with bated breath to see how the financials stack up in the report to be published. "we suggest rapidly expanding cheap solar photovoltaics (PV), specifically rooftop solar for ordinary households" Do I have to have considerable battery backup when the sun doesn't shine? From a speed point of view I agree. From an economic perspective skeptical.

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Have done some high level numbers on some client coolstore and warehouse installations, most clients are turned off by the lack of $ they get from selling back to the grid when they produce excess during the day. Also importers and installers taking the piss with costs compared to international numbers which most folk base their calcs on. Storage also to expensive still. 

Another overlooked fact is your roof cladding doesn't get a regular wash by the rain when covered with panels, and this can lead to accelerated deterioration and void warranties. 

I'm all for rooftop solar but a few more things need to align in NZ. 

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I would of thought the reduction of UV on the paint would outweigh the lack of regular washing.

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No way! I have a corrugated iron shed. The only place it rusts is up under the eves where the rain (and sun) cannot go.

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They would have done well this year when daytime wholesale prices have been so elevated, typically >$300/MWh, assuming they were able to get close to wholesale prices.

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The article also overlooks the fact solar PV doesn't provide the process heat industry requires.

 

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Heat pump process heaters will get you to around 100 degC, electrode boilers will get you up to about 200 degC. Anything higher than this you need direct fired heaters, eg coal/natural gas.

Fonterra were transitioning their coal burners into electrode boilers through the GIDI fund, it was economic when they were getting a govt subsidy, not very economic without the subsidy, and only getting worse as electricity prices go up but coal doesn't.

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"it was economic when they were getting a govt subsidy, not very economic without the subsidy," Without knowing the numbers it's quite possible its uneconomic. On the other hand gas supply and price could be a problem as well. Maybe in the next Fonterra published financial results all will be revealed.

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We need to swap some butter for some of these bad boys. But I guess lower carbon emission isn't actually the goal of the watermelons.

"He said that there was export potential, including to countries and regions where freshwater resources are scarce and for countries where the power grids are not suitable for nuclear plants of more than 1000 MWe. He added that "HTRs could in the future provide a source of high-quality high-temperature process heat for various industries, in particular those that are required to limit their carbon emissions"."

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/China-s-demonstration-HTR-PM-re…

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It seems the 11 new nuclear plants china just approved are traditional designs.  Might want to wait for China to eat it's own dog food before placing some bets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hualong_One

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Or we could get them to build some of these barges for us.

"AFTER MORE THAN A DECADE of research and development, China is reportedly building a fleet of floating nuclear reactors in the South China Sea. While these could support commercial development and oil exploration, China has also boasted of the floating reactors’ military capabilities, which it claims will give them an edge over any American forces in the area.

...China is building two prototypes: the 60-megawatt ACPR50S and the 125-megawatt ACP100S. Each reactor sits on its own 400-foot-long barge and can be towed wherever needed. These are pressurized water reactors with a passive cooling system, a modern design which, unlike earlier reactors, will not suffer a catastrophic meltdown if the cooling fails."

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a61016011/china-developing-fl…

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Not to mention the risk of power companies charging solar panel owners for exporting their surplus energy to the grid during daylight hours as has happened in Australia.

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The article isn't talking about solar users going off grid. As mentioned in the article, we already have a pretty decent storage capacity in the hydro lakes, particularly Pukaki. By reducing demand on hydro when the sun is shining, there would be more water when the sun isn't. Also it tends to be sunnier during dry years further helping the situation.

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Yes, as a country we already have excellent hydro capacity which is being overused, especially in dryer years. Any additional generation that can keep water in the lakes would make a big difference to peak electricity prices.

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Problem: Not a lot of solar energy in winter...

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There is some and it is about reducing some of the load so the hydro lakes are fuller as they aren’t used as much. Solar a lot of sense. It isn’t the total solution but it is part of it. 

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Not really. E.g. today at 10am on a sunny winter's morning. Transpower's live data shows that the 2 grid scale solar plants in NZ are operating at 31MW out of their 46MW capacity. So 67%. There is scattered cloud over Kaitaia at the moment and it's a bluebird morning in Edgecumbe.

The only sources of electricity in NZ that can be turned off and on at will are hydro (of which we have gazillions) and fast-start gas peakers (of which we have 2).

If extrapolating that 31MW for a conservative 6 hours (from 10 am to 4pm) that is 186MW. So, one and a half hours worth of a Karapiro Dam's level of production can be saved for the 6pm to 9pm peak when it is needed. That is just from the 2 operating Lodestone solar farms.

Then extrapolate that sort of maths if 700MW of new rooftop capacity was added, as the article is discussing.

There will be days when this will be near zero, but that is what our current status quo almost is anyway. In which case the current solution is to burn coal and close down timber and pulp mills.

 

 

 

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It's now 1.5 weeks from the end of winter. And presumably these grid scale ones are set at the optimum angle.

The hydro capacity is reducing over time compared to the load. And with electric cars and eventually a reduction in domestic gas users set to add to the problem.

Sure some solar would be great. But it is not at all effective in terms of winter base load power generation.

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The northland ones track the sun morning to night . presumably oreintated east to west ,, so angle to sun should be able to be optimised seasonally.
 

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Yup , we should act now , and save what gas we have left for peaking plants

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Please stop butchering units like that.  31MW for 6 Hours is 186MWh, not 186MW.

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This makes so much sense, if every house had solar hot water and a water tanks it would make a huge difference. Importing gas WTF. Thank you Stephen for bringing some comon sense to the problem solving. 

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Solar hot water is not as efficient as using the electricity to run a hot water heat pump. 

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Agreed. Unfortunately my hot water heat pump breaks down all the time and the repair costs definitely suck up much of the economic advantage. E.g. currently the fan has stopped again, so it's just working on the backup element (performing like a normal electric hot water cylinder). It's also a bit noisy. Just not a great unit, I think. The difference to my power bill suggests that it saves a lot of power when it's working. (It also helps financially that use the timer to operate it either during the middle of the day, when I have solar generation, or in the middle of the night using the off-peak rates). I would definitely do it again, but I'd have more storage, to enable me to be more selective when it runs. And I'd choose a better brand. Can anyone suggest one they've been happy with?

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what brand have you got?  Reliability / life time  is certainly my concern with heat pump hotwater.  You can't beat a standard electric cylinder for reliability.

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I have had zero problems with my Mitsubishi hot water heat pump in 7 years. In the same time period, my previous hot water cylinder needed two new resistance heater elements. 

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which model?  I only thought they sold the ecodan systems here that also do central heating.  What sort of ballpark price if you don't mind?

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We looked at heat pump hwc, and it didnt make sense due to heat pumps usually having a 10-20 year lifespan, whereas a classic hwc is more likely to go 30 years. The fact they are usually installed on a catchment with drain these days mean you can safely run them till it blows, which may be well over 30 years.

 

We did progress with Solar, it made a bunch of sense at 3% interest rates, no sense at 7% interest rates, but the bet was always that the price of energy would outpace currency deflation, which is proving true. 

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I share your concerns with the integrated HWC/Heat pumps that come as a single packaged unit.

An alternative is what Mitsubishi calls a 'hyrdobox' (others do them too). This is a separate heat pump unit that plumbs into a suitable HWC. These HWCs come with connections that make replacing an end-of-life HW heat pump much easier. (Once our 18 yo eHWC dies, this is route we'll probably take, subject to a full cost/benefit analysis of course.)

Anyone got such a setup? How is your experience with it?

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the problem is they cost so much.  less than 2.7K for an 270l integrated unit from trade depot.  No expensive install, just water and power connection.   I'd have to fail quite a few times to come out at less cost than an Ecodan.

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I would be interested to see how rooftop solar compares to the grid-scale solar plants that are cropping up around the country. Presumably there's a benefit to doing things on scale, on the ground rather than roof-by-roof?

That said, I have solar panels on my roof and I think they will be a great investment - it shouldn't take much encouragement to get more people interested.

I do wonder where the quoted 40MW of new wind energy comes from - sounds very low to me. For example, Mercury are installing an extra 110MW at Kaiwera downs right now and Meridian should be fully powered at Harapaki in the next month or so, at 176MW. Meanwhile the quoted 786MW of new solar by next year is significantly more than the currently installed ~420MW - enormous growth if true. 

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I would be interested to see how rooftop solar compares to the grid-scale solar plants that are cropping up around the country. Presumably there's a benefit to doing things on scale, on the ground rather than roof-by-roof?

The actual install of the panels would be much cheaper.

It'd come down to how expensive the infrastructure is to connect.

Sorta like public water and waste. It'll cost the Wellington council something like 15 grand per person to make their system passable. In the right spot you can supply something new to an individual household for a couple or three grand per occupant.

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Wellington also has the matter of the panels and fixings having to withstand their frequent, high winds so presumably there are many locations there that couldn't get panels on the roof for this reason?

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Logically, a subsidized effort should be concentrated where solar has the most benefits.

Some people wouldn't be happy about that.

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Unfortunately, as Australia demonstrates, subsidies for solar promote all the wrong outcomes, magnifying the price difference between cheap kit/installers vs proper kit/installers

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"I would be interested to see how rooftop solar compares to the grid-scale solar plants that are cropping up around the country" - I guess the difference is that the homeowner makes a lot of the investment, so it could scale quite quickly. 

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Grid scale solar is always going to be more efficient as they can site the panels in the best places and orientations, and have actuators that follow the sun if it's worth it.

However, in most of NZ rooftop solar doesn't require any consent, doesn't require any new transmission lines, or purchasing/leasing land, so can get built much more quickly.

From what I've seen most new grid scale solar is getting built around existing grid connections or substations, do we have enough of those sites, or will we run out at some stage?

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I do wonder where the quoted 40MW of new wind energy comes from - sounds very low to me. For example, Mercury are installing an extra 110MW at Kaiwera downs right now and Meridian should be fully powered at Harapaki in the next month or so, at 176MW. Meanwhile the quoted 786MW of new solar by next year is significantly more than the currently installed ~420MW - enormous growth if true. 

I think the starting point for their stats are in the past, that 40MW of wind is probably Kaiwera Downs stage 1 which went online late 2023 . The "270 megawatts of new geothermal" would include the already commissioned Tahuara (174MW) with the extra 100 being from the currently in construction Ngtamariki Unit 5 and Te Huka Unit 3 (roughly 50MW each).

Therefore the starting point of solar capacity is not the current amount of 420MW, but from what it was a year or so ago, probably around 300mw. So, about a 100 of that 786mw of additional solar has already happened. E.g. in the last year there has been Kaitaia (23mw), Edgecumbe (23mw), Gisborne Airport (5mw), Waiuku (2mw), Naumai (4mw) in terms of solar farms added, plus a years worth of more ongoing BAU rooftop installations.

Other solar farms currently in construction expected to be completed by the end of the year are: Waiotahe (30mw), Lauriston (63mw), Ruawai (16mw), Oakridge (6mw), Ashburton (7mw).

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Meridian Westwind has been out since May 23,the replacement Transformer  is due for install in Feb 25 around 44 MW,the cumulative loss is generation to date is around 200 GWh or around 50% of the 2023 ttl solar generation.Along with the 2 Generators being out at Manapouri since Jan 23,which meant Meridian had to draw on Putaki reserves early (whilst spilling at Manapouri) a large part of the enhanced risk is due to installed generation outages.

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Aside from any low water level issues at Manapouri, 15 months is a very long time for a generator to be out.  For two to be out they must have very serious issues. That's about 300MWs. If Tiwai have priority that's much less for the rest of NZ.

Time for the EA to investigate but don't know if within their brief or even have any teeth to be able to investigate.

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A modest subsidy. I guess that means the householder pays the bulk. 
Why the confidence that householders have this money?

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The banks will loan it to you at 1% if you don't. 

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On a 3 year term, so a typical 3 kW solar system costing around $9k would require an extra $274/month spent on repaying the debt, which is around what most people pay currently just for power.

If it's more than a 3 year term then it flips to normal mortgage rates.

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Why on earth would you compare on a 3 year term, when the products typically have 5-20 year warranties?

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you can't get a green loan for 20 years.  Westpac it's a 5 year term.

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Where does the subsidy come from?

I guess the householder pays for it all in the end.

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I doubt they mean every householder, plenty have bucket loads of money. If 20% of households did it, that would be very significant. 

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I have been banging this drum for a while. We now have the highest melanoma mortality rate per head of capita in the world. We rely on hydro which is sketchy when we have dry spells - this is usually Summer. Labour spruiking the EV market was a mis-step. The supply side of power should have been greened before the demand side. It will never eliminate grid power but in the day at peak use, and in the summer when water levels drop it would be a really welcome assist.

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The melanoma risk is more to do with the hole in the ozone layer and the pale skin of our immigrant stock than the absolute sunshine levels. 

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Dry years in the south are usually from lack of snow. but solar can help preserve that through the summer , and can still perfporm well on a cold winters day. 

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If they want scale, commercial buildings probably a better bet.

Perhaps assembled on ground and whole arrays craned up. 

 

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Yes, added benefit that they usually use more power during the day, as opposed to houses which use most at night.

 

Challenge is that most commercial is leased, so a 10-20 year fixed investment like solar often doesn't make sense

 

Solar is an extremely economic option if you manage to use all the power it generates, its just the low buyback rates, and fact that households use little through the day that challenge the economics for households.

 

From the numbers I've done, the best bet for households is to get a very small system (2-3kw), then they'll use a greater proportion of what they generate, increasing the economic benefit.

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There's some good offers out there now, or were recently at least. I get 17c from Meridian, and I pay about 19c night rates and 32c day. It's actually still better for me to shift power use to night rates and take the buy-back than it is to replace day use. 

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Good call,

I guess it depends on the household, for us, we crank it up just as the sun goes down in winter (heat pump, oven, kids bath etc...) so flat rate power and lower buy back makes sense for us 

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Yeah will vary a lot. I downloaded a year of half-hourly power use before committing and did the maths for a few different power schemes and solar installation sizes - nice Excel exercise. 5KW made sense for me, not much more expensive than 2-3 but there's a big step up for a >5KW inverter. 

Now I get to have some more spreadsheet fun seeing if the actual panel performance matches my model - so far so good. 

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I am for this and change to market model  thinking of putting solar in soon

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I agree: it probably makes more sense to use our current hydro as a battery and use new solar generation when possible instead of hydro. And getting the householder to fund a good percentage of the cost could make it ramp up quite quickly, not to mention their roof space is free land for the panels. 

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Mike Casey of Rewiring Aotearoa (and other pro-renewables orgnaisations) was doing the rounds of media outlets a few months ago saying the tipping point for installing domestic solar was now.

Here's a podcast from March: Electric Homes - Mike Casey, Rewiring Aotearoa - Podcasts NZ: New Zealand Podcasts

And here's their report: Electric Homes Report (rewiring.nz)

 

In Europe, solar panels are so cheap that people are hanging them (vertically) off fences as the decreased efficiency of not being correctly aligned is still outweighed by the benefits: Global glut turns solar panels into garden fencing option (ft.com)

 

I was all set to get solar installed at home with battery backup but was encouraged to hold off until the Tesla Power Wall 3 arrived in New Zealand.  That has now happened (the following is a link to the Harrisons website but other sites are available: Tesla Powerwall 3 Battery For Home - Harrisons Solar NZ

So, I've booked in my local franchisee for a conflab and quote (booked last week but first available slot isn't until September).  While I'm not keen on sending money in the direction of crazier-by-the-minute Elon Musk, Tesla's storage batteries still appear to be industry leaders (I'm happy for others to direct me to alternatives though).

 

As others here have already stated, solar is not the single answer but it makes more sense than imported gas, coal or (rolls eyes) nuclear.  And there are only so many sacrifices I am able to make to reduce my power consumption!

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The economics of batteries are still miles away from making sense.

 

Round numbers, tesla powerwall 2 was $15k including install, with 13.5kwh usable.

If you pay 25c per kwh, and sell each for 12c, the benefit from each kwh stored and used (instead of sold and bought later) is 13c.

If you fully charge it every day, and discharge it every night (very generous assumption), thats $616 return a year, or a 4% return. With a 10 year warranty, it isnt close to economically viable.

 

There are benefits from batteries around grid outages, but its a lot to pay for that insurance.

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Dont get a powerwall. When you install solar get an inverter that works with 48V batteries, and then install off-the-shelf batteries yourself.  NZ$ 3.5K on aliexpress for 10kWh LFP GTK brand shipped to NZ

80% capacity after 6000 cycles, i'd be hoping for 20 years of use.

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Thanks for the reply!

 

One point is that we use almost no power during the (week) day compared to evenings, so for us I don't think that solar would have much benefit or point if not for battery storage.

 

Our paying vs earning numbers are looking like being much further apart than 25c and 12c but probalby not far enough to justify on economic grounds along.  Fortunately, the low lake levels and cold winter nights provide arguments for getting solar and storage.

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Cool, yes we are pretty lucky in Akl with power prices, seems our lines charges are comparitively low.

 

Have fun with the numbers, also remember you will also need more solar if you get a battery, adding more to the equation. 

From a purely economic model, a 2kw solar only system seems like a screamer (even with low daytime use) but the way the world is going, the insurance of a battery will be increasingly valuable.

 

I've always liked the idea of a small battery (2-3kwh), as a cheaper insurance policy, so that if Armageddon comes, we can at least run the fridge and a few small thing through the day, but no really reputable brands seem to make small batteries (that I've seen)

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How  big is your hot water cylinder? You put it on a timer, so it only heats during full sun, and if it's big enough , that lasts 24 hours.  That takes care of 1/2 the output of a 5 k.w system.  Drier and washing machine on timers, air con set to heat the house before you get home, if it's well insulated , that will get you  through to 9 p.m when some providers provide free power.

 

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All good ideas, but in a house where kids bath, and usually at least 1 adult baths every night (in a ridiculously big bath), and another showers early morn, hwc timer leaves us short, we do still have it off 11pm to 11am to at least not pay for heat leakage (not a lot with modern hwc)

 

Also with heat pump washing machine & heat pump dryer, a lot of excercise a penchant for getting muddy, and a preference for fresh towels, they are going 12+ hours a day without using much power :) 

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No hot water cylinder - we currently have a gas powered instant water heater.  This will have to be changed in the next couple of years and I'm investigating Hot Water Heat Pump (HWHP) options - whcih will probably have to live outside as the major house renovation we did many years back eliminated the hot water cylinder cupboard!  At least the 1920s bungalow is now insulated in roof, walls and floor as well as being fully double glazed and rocking a couple of heat pumps.  

 

Rest assured, I'm always angling for optimal power usage.  We are with Electric Kiwi (other retaileres are available) who do at least provide an hour of free power every day - so everything gets turned on for 60 minutes at 6am.  Solar feels like the next best thing to do and batteries strike me as necessary to not just send most of the power generated back into the grid.

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A great number of homes would require an upgrade to insulation before it makes any sense to install solar.

 

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They would do better with insulation but they still use electricity so solar is still useful. I did both and got my all-electric house and EV charging bill down to $80/year.

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I spend that in 4 days in winter. In my terribly insulated house (and EV)

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I don't know, it's 7 grand to blow insulation into the walls of my house versus about 9k to get 8kW of panels installed. Haven't crunched the numbers yet but I suspect the solar will give a better return.

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I saw a link to an article a few days ago regarding a homeowner in the UK unable to get house insurance as his walls were loaded with spray foam insulation.

 

This link might explain why: Q&A: Is spray foam insulation a good idea? - Sustainable Engineering Ltd.

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Anyone seen Pokeno on the last 10 years? I call it a "monument to the I competency of the Greens" About. 5% of houses have. Chimneys 100% probably have heat pumps and hardly a solar system in sight. It should be 100% of new builds.

We installed water solar 16 yrs ago coz batteries too expensive and have really good water from mid Sept to early May on an OK year.  Even July this yer we were adding nearly 10 degrees a day to the hot water temp. 

Totally agree money better spent on subsidising solar on roof tops and creat that industry than a big multi natnl to build way over budget a bandaid LNG system. 

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Yup , the Greens are pushing for more Pokeno type developments. Jeez.

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On top of that, Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced plans to investigate the feasibility of importing liquid natural gas (LNG) to help increase gas-generated electricity supply and lower prices in the process.

Someone at MBIE needs to tell him that investigation has already been done.

No doubt he'll want to throw that away and start again cause it happened under Labours tenure.

LNG import and options to increase indigenous gas market capacity and flexibility in New Zealand –...

Published: 9 Aug 2023

This report provides an analysis of the potential role that liquefied natural gas imports and additional indigenous gas storage could play in the New Zealand energy sector.

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resourc…

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Enerlytica did an unofficial update to their 2023 report, some findings here

https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/15/marsden-pt-and-taranaki-ports-to-vie-…

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I'm not sure there is much point in telling him anything, worst minister of the lot.

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Brown also called on Labour to form a bipartisan approach to restore confidence.

This is a bit rich from the government that tore up the bipartisan housing according and has spent most of it's focus in government on a petty crusade to cancel and repeal anything the last government did.

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This article is a fail.  Leads with the current high wholesale pricing, but then doesn't explain how solar would help in the current situation.

Solar does not produce significantly more power in a dry year, and you can't stockpile the suns rays.

Yes solar makes sense for all the reasons they mention.  Yes intra-day we can hold water back during the day and release it in the peaks (peaks that will be worse due to solar).

In a dry year there simply isn't enough water. Coal we can stockpile, use it in a dry year, not use the rest of the time.  LNG likewise we could bring it in only during a dry year.  You can't stockpile the suns rays, unless you build an enormous battery.  Existing hydro lakes don't have enough storage to stockpile year to year.

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I disagree,

 

Households can make an economic investment in solar (especially if they buy small systems), and that (on aggregate) prevents all households having to pay more for infrastructure, win win.

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I'm not arguing against solar in general.  Yes if you install solar, that's a bit less generation that someone else has to install.

Where i disagree with the authors is that solar doesn't solve the dry year problem we are currently experiencing, because you can't make the sun shine more in a dry year.

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Dry an sunshine tend to go hand in hand.

I'm laughing at some of the posits - have been offgrid for decades now - can run quite happily on 300 watts of PV, and all this winter I haven't need our micro-hydro at all. The 300 watts is enough. People just don't think enough. 

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The last dry year 2021, did not result in extra solar generation when i spot check a few sites near me, e.g. https://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=70618&sid=62736&t=y

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"There may even be an argument for revisiting the current market framework and returning those hydro assets to public ownership."

This is the only way this proposal can work.

And there is zero chance of the neoliberal dogma being dropped. So all discussion is pointless.

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Solar is great. It is great that is cheap and our electricity supply will benefit from this for years to come.

However, LNG is about much more than just electricity. And electricity is much than just what is cheap.

For electricity, we need a supply that is cheap/affordable; reliable; and sustainable. Solar is cheap and sustainable but isn't always reliable. Gas / LNG / coal as a PART of an electricity system and support solar, wind, hydro, and geothermal to provide a reliable supply. 

Secondly, gas is the only way to economically run many processes that are high heat (aside from diesel or coal). Examples here are drying grains, drying milk powder, processing meat, etc. Without gas many parts of our economy wouldn't presently function. Renewable alternatives are being developed but not commercially viable yet. Solar can't replace these high heat uses though. 

 

 

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> Examples here are drying grains, drying milk powder, processing meat.

You can make your own milk powder at home using an electric dehydrator running at 50 deg C.  What temperature do theses industrial drying processes need?

 

For high heat, it's lossy, but you can use electricity to make hydrogen to then burn for heat - something for when there's no gas left.

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Yes a lot of steam is used to make lower grade heat, hot water for e.g. 

This is the low hanging fruit. 

 

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If there were subsidies I would def pick up solar with battery (I was looking at batteries as I didnt want the system to govern when I took my shower + putting power back into the grid you get pennies back). There also needs to be education around this option as even I struggled understanding the sales pitch, I couldn't find stated "minimum" standards etc to compare tech/quotes.

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Even just a small battery to even out production for self-consumption would be good.

Look at my production profile here for yesterday, they don't give you this in the sales pitch when they tell you to just run the dishwasher during the day.

https://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=121065&sid=104930&dt=20240819&gs=3…

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0% and 1% loans from banks are available for "approved" customers.  That's a subsidy.

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I'm expecting my panels to make the equivalent of a 20-25% pre-tax profit after account for Meridian slipping me $300 to sign up, and Kiwibank chucking a couple of grand my way for taking a loan with them. Inflation adjusted, and should still be performing at 90%+ in 25-30 years. 

If that's not encouraging people I don't really think we should be throwing tax payer money at making the deal even sweeter for middle class home owners. 

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Nobody has talked about NZ's biggest problem with solar yet so I will: NO NET METERING. Let's work through some examples with a hypothetical plan of 20c day rate and 10c export rate.

If I export 3 units and then five minutes later import 3 units within the same 30min wholesale window the net of nothing. Except that's not how it works in NZ. You'd get charged 60c for import and credited 30c for export costing you 30c when it should be free under net metering.

The electricity industry will argue "but hey the electricity supply changes over time and so there may be some large change in demand and supply over 5 minutes". Okay well then can we not at least have net metering in the same instant.

For a larger installation three phase is required, and a lot of inverters generate equally over the phases. So you might be generating 6kw off your roof, 2kw per phase and you have an EV charging from one phase at 7k. Instead of paying for the opportunity cost of losing 6kW export (60c) you're now paying to "import"  5kW (7kW-2kW) which will cost $1 which is nearly double!

It's pretty insane that the metering runs at 5kW when you're actually just importing 1kW from the grid.

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With net metering you are asking the grid to act as your battery for free.  It costs to build and maintain the infrastructure that allows you to export 3 units and then at the flick of a switch import 3 units back.

In asking to get this service for free, you are essentially asking for other power consumers to subsidise your power bill.

I know in the USA most places are phasing out net metering.  Are there other countries that are sticking with it?

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Even worst, most houses have the big loads split between 2 phases.  So you can be exporting on one phase, and importing on the other.

 

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Dry years equate to less rainfall and cloud cover, which means higher solar gains.

 

With battery storage and pumped hydro plants solar would well be able to cover our needs 24/7/365.

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Listening to Jones and Brown today, pretty obvious there solution is more fossil fuels, preferably coal for Jones.

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They are to late, already already.

Exponential growth is mirrored by exponential de-growth too. Those graphs cross acutely. 

Every time they attempt to pin a tail on the donkey - hamstrung by the incessant insistence on seeing things through $$$$$$ eyes - the animal will have moved on. 

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Excellent article.   Solar is the perfect compliment to NZ's large hydro and wind capacity. 

The lack of adoption, is a market failure and needs a kick off as done in Australia

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