Here's our summary of key economic events overnight that affect New Zealand with news in the growing shadow of upcoming central bank decisions.
Financial markets are having a toughish time reading the tea-leaves on what the US Fed will do at this week's meeting. The PCE result for June left open every interpretation and the prior presumption of a September rate cut is in question. Will it give the Fed members enough confidence to hold off until after the election in November? their usual non-change stance around elections. Or will they still feel the need to go now to prevent a monetary policy mistake?
And then there are even bigger questions about what the Bank of Japan will do this week. They have now got the moderate inflation they have been seeking for decades, but seem uncomfortable with the consequences.
Meanwhile, manufacturing in the US oil patch is going backwards. The last time it was positive was April 2022. Since then it has been steadily contracting according to the Dallas Fed's factory survey. The July survey showed little reason to expect that trend to change. It will be touch-n-go whether tomorrow's services survey improves from its narrower negative position.
Another corner of the US economy that isn't doing so great is commercial real estate. According to MSCI, lenders foreclosed on more than $20 bln of loans in this sector in Q2-2024, a +13% jump from Q1-2024 and the most in any quarter in almost a decade.
Across the Pacific, positives are much easier to find in Taiwan where consumer sentiment rose in July to its best result in three years. It was sentiment driven by significantly improved family financial situations, employment prospects, and general feelings of prosperity.
In contrast, we should note there is still no sign of China's June foreign direct investment report. This might be a part of a wider pattern to keep tough news from markets to prevent them "over-reacting". Their equity exchanges have agreed to stop publishing daily data that gives investors the ability to calculate net flows at the end of each trading day.
And their weak equity markets have many piling in to Chinese government bonds, pushing prices up to record levels and yields down to record levels in a sharp risk-aversion mood. Some analysts expect Beijing to intervene by borrowing and selling bonds to reverse the moves. It's a bond bubble built out of fears for China's immediate economic prospects.
The UST 10yr yield is now at just on 4.17% and down -3 bps from yesterday. The key 2-10 yield curve inversion is still at -20 bps. Their 1-5 curve is a little deeper at -76 bps. And their 3 mth-10yr curve inversion is also a little deeper at -121 bps. The Australian 10 year bond yield starts today at just under 4.31% and unchanged. The China 10 year bond rate is just under 2.14% and a very sharp -6 bps lower and easily a record low. The NZ Government 10 year bond rate is now just under 4.39%, and down -2 bps from yesterday.
Wall Street has opened its week essentially unchanged in Monday trade on the S&P500, not the rise weekend futures markets expected. Overnight European markets were mixed between an unchanged London and Paris that fell -0.1%. Yesterday Tokyo ended its Monday trade up a strong +2.1%. Hong Kong ended up +1.3%. But Shanghai was unchanged, whereas Singapore rose +0.5%. The ASX200 rose +0.9% but the NZX50 fell -0.3%.
The price of gold will start today with a small -US$8 move down from yesterday at US$2378/oz.
Oil prices are another -50 USc softer at just over US$75.50/bbl in the US while the international Brent price is just under US$79/bbl.
The Kiwi dollar starts today marginally softer again at just under 58.8 USc. Against the Aussie we are marginally softer too at 89.8 AUc. Against the euro we are little-changed at 54.3 euro cents. That all means our TWI-5 starts today at 67.8 and down another -10 bps from yesterday.
The bitcoin price starts today at US$66,928 and down -1.3% from this time yesterday. Volatility over the past 24 hours has been moderate, at +/- 2.6%.
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92 Comments
'...to prevent a monetary policy mistake?"
It's way too late for that now. "They" have been making the same mistake for the last ~25 years. Starting with Alan Greensapan and continued by Ben Bernanke/Janet Yellen. In a nutshell More, Cheaper Debt was the answer. And the results, we now have in front of us.
".... extreme policies have steadily dragged the economy and the wealthy higher. Now we're finally at the top of the rollercoaster, so hang on, the ride gets "fun" from here to the bottom."...When an economy chooses to live off ever-rising debt.... there are only two possible futures: Japan took the first path in 1989-90...Japan survives off its soaring debts, zombie companies and immense holdings of foreign assets while its younger generations have given up on marriage, family and home ownership, as all are now unaffordable. If this pathway to national decay sounds like the way to go, take your blinders off and look around: We are already well down that road. The other pathway is high inflation which eats wage earners and savers alive. When you rely on debt to fund consumption and the spending ....productivity stagnates and all that fresh debt-money pouring into the system pushes inflation into a dynamic of increasing instability."
Well apparently
> The case for interest rates to fall hard and fall fast is growing
https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/fixed-rates-of-5-the-case-for-interest-r…
>Ed McKnight is the resident economist at property investment company Opes Partners
Ok, no self interest at all there then.
Ed McKnight owns a share of Opes Partners, in his bio he says he's had the privilege of contributing articles to NZ Property Investor magazine (among others) but Opes Partners own that magazine so it's a different kind of privilege. Does seem like he's picked up the baton,
What do you mean serious? The Iron Dome has been depleted to the point they could make Tel Aviv hide in bomb shelters for a few months. They have been attacking the north of Israel for months and the IDF keeps putting off any invasion. The last time Israel tried to invade Lebonon they lost and Hezbollah is much stronger now.
The only way this is not serious is Hezbollah probably wont try to occupy Israel. The only thing preventing further escalation is everyone knowing that the IDF will go straight to countervalue targeting.
I was talking about Iran not being a serious threat. Their ability to strike long range is fairly ineffective, and they can't get to Israel over land.
Hezbollah is obviously closer, but lack the means for a substantial ground war. More of a nuisance (although a sometimes deadly one) than an existential threat to Israel.
Hezbollah and Yemen can blow up the industry and infrastructure of Israel and all the productive settlers with dual passports will leave and they won't be able to afford to replace the defences. The Iron Dome does not have interceptors and reliability to stop this. They don't need Iran unless the US commits fully to Israel's survival. You can go find Nasrallah's speeches of the plan.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/19/drone-attack-on-israels-tel-av…
Hezbollah and Yemen can blow up the industry and infrastructure of Israel and all the productive settlers with dual passports will leave and they won't be able to afford to replace the defences.
They can? Well I wait with baited breath for this religious wacko's prophecy to come true.
In Israel, the impact included 300,000 people fleeing their homes to escape Hezbollah rockets and some 2,000 homes destroyed.
Hezbollah has a far bigger arsenal than in 2006, including rockets it says can hit all parts of Israel.
It has demonstrated advances in its weaponry since October, shooting down Israeli drones, launching its own explosive drones into Israel, and firing more sophisticated guided missiles.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/523443/explainer-is-the-hezbollah-isra…
They have already done it in the north. The IDF are just sitting there letting their ISR and bases be taken out making a later invasion even harder. I guess hoping they don't have enough longer range rocket is a strategy.
What provocation is Israel waiting for before they invade? Go on... what would Hezbollah need to do that they have not already done?
Hezbollah is committing acts of war daily and Nasrallah provokes them once a week. They lost last time they went into Lebanon and this time they can't even beat Hamas.
Well seeing as the Israelis are the smartest people on the planet, they just fly drone strikes to continually take out the Hezbollah leaders, no need to invade, their air force will fly in unopposed when it needs to. No need to escalate the fight until Gaza is finished, its 85% done on that front.
"...drop but severely restrict lending to new borrowers.."
Bingo!
That... is the answer. It's what we should all be doing. Dropping interest rates, but FIRST preventing new Debt going into asset speculation, and into nation rebuilding instead.
Have a re-read of David's morning missive. What happens to New Zealand if China has hit the rocks and is going under. Where will most of the goods come from that keep us going. Because we sure don't make them for ourselves any more.
Maybe. But we balanced what we reared and grew with those bits of Toyota we paid local people to screw together. There is a more difficult path to be trodden by smaller, independent economies like ours. Which it is why it is even more crucial that we don't end up running the whole lot on locally manufactured Debt. Because at some stage, no one will want debased NZ$ in exchange for Toyota parts, and then what?
The first question then, is whether a small, geographically isolated, low and sparsely populated, independent nation such as ourselves is even capable of producing enough of value to be able to export, in exchange for the majority of items we feel we need to import.
About the only time that was remotely possible, was when much of the rest of the world was at war, or in ruins, because of war.
It is, and we were very good at it. Not so much for export (that's a red herring) but to solve local needs/problems. 'No8' was based on real improvisational capabilities.
We are headed for a permanent 'at war' state; local will be the order of the day.
In that light, obsessively focusing on interest-rates, somewhat misses the point.
Dunno about permanent 'at war', but it would seem that we are heading towards deglobalisation. We could get the jump on that, and if right, it'd be a masterstroke.
If wrong, well then we'd see an even larger youth exodus. Our No8 can't provide the high level of technology demanded by todays consumers (but more than enough for a comfortable life).
Utter nonsense and shows you know very little about economics or the economic history of NZ (including in the present day).
NZ has lots of resources, capable people (but a small population), worldclass political institutions and respect for rule of law (a massively undervalued resource by many), and is a high-acheiver pound for pound in a few high tech industries. Also have some of the best students in the world in terms of PISA results.
Will we ever be a mass-manufacturer? Barring some sort of robotic revolution it is exceedingly unlikely. We've never been one and due to our population size it will be very hard to compete on that front with Asia/Europe/Americas. But there is nothing wrong with importing technology so long as it is used intelligently and we use it to play to our strengths.
Your doom and gloom view of the world and completely inaccurate understanding of the cause of national wealth (it was all stolen blah blah blah) makes your comments borderline useless for anyone trying to learn something.
NZ needs substantial policy change but overall has the potential to continue to be a wealthy, first world nation going well into the future.
Utter nonsense and shows you know very little about economics or the economic history of NZ (including in the present day).
Feel free to fill in my gaps then.
-As I see it, this is a nation that initially prospered because of colonisation and being a blank slate. If the land is almost free, and the climate, geography and resources are there, in a time of relative global technological infancy, it couldn't not do well.
-It did well also in the early to mid 20th century, outside the shadow of massive conflict in Europe and Asia, and then the subsequent population and consumerism boom that followed.
-Then many under developed economies, primarily in Asia, managed to develop industry and technology, and ate our lunch (as they have done in many places).
NZ has lots of resources, capable people (but a small population), worldclass political institutions and respect for rule of law (a massively undervalued resource by many), and is a high-acheiver pound for pound in a few high tech industries.
But, it lacks the scale to either fund or grow beyond where it is. Other smaller nations get around this, by being much closer to very large markets and labour resources. Much of what we do have of potential, ends up relocating to a larger market.
NZ needs substantial policy change but overall has the potential to continue to be a wealthy, first world nation going well into the future.
Pretty vague. I keep hearing on this site about investing in productivity, yet no one can ever tell me all these really amazing, financially viable and lucrative opportunities we're not investing in. People seem to think if we just twiddle some tax brackets and do some re-allocation of funding, it'll be easy and occur automatically, but you have to have an actual considered plan and available resources to enact it.
And we only got to be 'first world', because we just ported over another first world nation's people and technology. Very little of our status was indigenous in origin.
I had a big response written out and deleted it. Realised there is no bigger waste of time in life than arguing with the cliche "old man who thinks sky is falling and things used to be better and will only get worse from here".
You do you Painter, keep up the constant doomer posts while you sit inside reading doom scrolling. Rest of us are out in the world building it.
You could drop the 'thoughts', then, and have a shorter, more accurate pen-name.
A good start, for you, would be to put yourself through this: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2015/04/programmed-to-ignore/
I can guess what you aren't. A further great read, is: Warnings (Clarke/Eddy) re why Cassandras are ignored, with case-studies (Fukushima, Syria, Kuwait...)
Then download this: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2021/03/textbook-debut/
We are at the Limits to Growth (well foretold - mass-ignored) globally, with implications for everything.
Which means you are of the past - but inappropriate to the future.
Go well.
So you were going to actually present something that was facts or reason, but instead just continued down the road of argument via character assassination. I see.
I'm a millennial, the sky is not falling, and I'm not really making a statement about the past or future being better or worse, just in flux. Elements of the past were worse than today, some better, and vice versa with the present and future. But there's so many views on here about our past which are somewhat ill informed, and aspirations for the future which are full of hopium. There's definitely possibility there, but with so many vested interests, externalities and legacy elements at play, achieving them is like threading a needle in the dark.
I have 4 active businesses, with the majority of turnover being export product. Although 80% of my work is done outside winter months, so I get to spend time indoors having these illuminating conversations on the internet.
There is a silver lining for anyone reading this though. There's opportunities abound out there, and only increasing as boomers drop out of the active economy, and most people are indoctrinated into being wage serfs. Forget about what's outside of your control, formulate a sound business plan, and go out there and deploy it.
Yes painter, you hit the point ,......."items we feel we need to import". In a nutshell, "champagne tastes on a beer income."
This is our national dilemma thinking we are as prosperous as Canada/Australia, etc., when we are not. We could have a great deal wider options if we lived within our means and stopped borrowing to pay for consumer goods, and/or selling off our productive enterprises.
Of course, being more productive (efficient) with what we can produce.
You mean those same Aussie that are probably about to raise their Cash Rate?
"Labor braces for higher inflation, interest rates"
https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/labor-braces-for-higher-inflation-in…
No, there's been talk of that for six months. As I started out by saying our blind guvna who doesnt know the right moves was planning to raise just two months ago, speeding over the cliff. But now he's about to throw the bus into reverse when we are dangling over the edge, all the passengers are tense, holding their breath and not able to move a muscle in fear for their own safety
They had the answer - the now revoked extra landlord tax. The effect of which was to make the interest % higher for landlord than those just owning their own home. And the extra cost on landlords was tax revenue for all of us
It was simple, unavoidable tool that worked (never mind if you agree with the tax or not).
Well, it’s more than just a geographic split. We’re really in a civilizational split, and it goes much deeper. What’s at stake is what kind of economy is the world going to have?
Is it going to be a financialized, neoliberal post-industrial economy, which is what the United States and Europe are pushing? Or is it going to be the kind of economy that textbooks talk about, where economies produce agricultural and industrial goods to feed themselves and make everybody prosper? I almost would use Rosa Luxemburg’s phrase, Barbarism or Socialism, because the West no longer has the means of real economic control over trade and production. It only has military force, terrorist violence and corruption to maintain its control.
The NATO West does financial control by having loaded down the global South and even many Asian countries with dollarized debt for the last 70 years. That dollarized debt holds them in a financial neocolonialism, an international debt peonage. Besides that, the ultimate power that the United States and Europe have to maintain their unipolar control to prevent other countries from going their own way and pursuing their own interests is to bomb them and mobilize terrorism.
The NATO West has lost its basic industrial or agricultural control because it has outsourced its industry to China and other Asian economies, and its sanctions against Russia and other countries has obliged them to become self-sufficient instead of relying on the West for a widening range of their basic needs. So these countries are now in a position to use their labor, industry and agriculture to make themselves prosperous and regain control over their economies, not to make U.S. and European investors rich. They want to take control of their economies in a way that will raise their wages and living standards.
That can’t be done if they follow a policy of privatization, World Bank advice and the IMF’s instructions to sell off their land and raw materials, privatize and sell off their public infrastructure, communications, electrical systems and water rights to foreigners while getting rid of government regulation and social-support programs. The West’s demand is to let the private sector run everything without government “interference.” Well, there’s no way that any economy can grow and get prosperous without being a mixed economy with strong public infrastructure providing basic needs at non-monopoly prices. Link
We could easily lose 100,000 jobs (4%) through 2025. That's what matters. It might not sound like a lot in % terms but it will feel like a disaster. Fiddling with rates will have virtually no impact on employment during that period and will only be of interest to people who are primarily concerted with property values.
Will we learn from the 2020 rapid recovery and go fiscal, or will Govt let the economy go down the toilet and carry on blaming the last lot?
We CANT just make debt cheaper and carry on.
Councils, governments, businesses and individuals have all become reliant on access to cheap credit like a drug. Many are still merrily spending.
We have to wean off it now. Ideally minimising the negative impact (but there has to be a negative impact)
Dropping the OCR without additional action to steer investment into more productive activity and driving efficiencies in local and national govt (luxon is luckily aware of and doing this) would be a huge mistake.
CGT, strict kpis for govt and local govt, targeted spend by govt on projects that deliver ROI but not housing, policies to encourage export business growth strict immigration controls to get skilled people and retention policies for skilled young kiwis.. are all actionable ideas that could start to turn our economy around and stop the rot.
Yes, the model is depressingly sustainable if the OCR stays between 1% and 3% and the world doesn't explode. Interest paid on private debt will tick over at around 4% of GDP (like it did between 2010 and 2019) and population growth will do the rest. What isn't sustainable is (a) inequality driven by our current model - particularly how our housing ponzi channels all of that borrowed money to rentiers, and (b) the fact that we are destroying our ecosystem to provide low-value primary goods to the rest of the world.
I think inequality has a considerable way to go yet. Technology is only going to further suppress the value of labour in coming years, to the benefit of capital owners.
The ecosystem, hard to say whether we'll do that ourselves or whether the impact of our entire species on the planet will make much agriculture tenuous.
Inequality is a tinder box. In the year to June 24, we added a few thousand jobs and 120,000 people to the working age population. Restaurants and cafes are closing because they can't compete with new businesses that are staffed by families working collectively for next to nothing. Add another 50,000 people to the dole queues in the next year and we will start to see some serious tensions.
I really believe the RBNZ and Treasury are disconnected from the NZ economy. I have asked the RBNZ who they talk to in business. They tell me that they regularly consult with business. I run a Treasury Advisory business. I have asked all my clients and contacts, many who sit on boards of well known NZ companies, how much contact they have with the RBNZ and Treasury. None of them have had any contact. None. I believe the RBNZ and Treasury have no idea what is happening at "the coalface." Maybe when their local cafe closes in Welly, they will realise how grim it is out there.
Nothing new & no surprises there, neither Labour or National gave a stuff about local manufacturing since the 1980s. In a large part of my previous life I worked for the A/NZ chemical process manufacturing division of a couple of multinationals (both now long gone) employing several hundreds. In ~3 decades we had 2 visit from a local politician (Labour in election years & he didn't want to meet the factory workers) & 1 phone call from someone at T&E/MBIE who'd met one of our directors at a function & was ticking the phone call box - no further response after I outlined some of the export issues we were then facing.
They don't look up from the charts.
I needed to buy a house in 2021. Greaaat.
At one open home I watched a stream of people turn up to view the shittiest house in all of Island Bay, Wellington.
Grandparents with grandkids, co-joined families, investors ....every single combination of possible buyers all manically desperate to buy a real piece of shit for 1.3 or whatever.
I sat in my car, having a rare moment of clarity, wondering what a member of the RBNZ would make of it all.
But of course they never bothered looking. Doubt they will now.
Aside from the ram raiders, crime has generally been decreasing, while inequality has been increasing. The population is moderately disgruntled, but mostly placated, and will likely be for some time. The disenfranchised are more likely to go without and pool resources than riot in the streets.
My reasoning behind this view, is the decent amount of experience of nations with either much higher unemployment rates, much greater inequality, and much lower standards of living. It's a long way to the bottom.
Notice how much protest action we got over vaccine mandates, and Gaza? How many marches or protests have there been about the cost of living?
The 2011 occupy protests?
National got voted into power with a cost of living focused campaign.
Protests usually are against something rather than for it. Much easier to galvanise support that way.
I mean, what would you be protesting for exactly? The government needs to borrow to pay my bills? They are already doing that now.
It works for a while until it doesn't. Once you institutionalise and demonise a whole section of society it's game over for the social contract. Look to the US and UK to see what happens with society after the bootcamps, imprisonment, demonisation, etc... it's not pretty.
We're not there yet but the coalition are doing their best to get us there by following the UK Tory playbook.
The issue is when the tipping point is reached socially.
We need to attracted skilled staff to deliver public services and infrastructure... and to grow businesses... and for trades.
We currently have far more more skilled young kiwis leaving than skilled you people arriving and that trend won't change anytime soon. Right now we are on a very slippery slope... I don't think it will take long for troubles to start to be very obvious
It's always hard viewing things in single digit years.
We had a pandemic that restricted outbound migration for around 2 years (so pent up demand).
Then we had serious inflation.
Now we're having an economic recession, because of the first two things.
So the impetus for people to leave, is fairly high. Although not unique to NZ at all (in Europe, they had the above, PLUS the looming threat of war), and potentially not a long term trend, depending what happens with local and global economics, and geopolitics.
It does seem like the contagion is already there. Even the multinationals I interact with are seriously curtailing spending; either they can't justify the higher cost of debt, or their forecasts are showing them global demand is going to drive off a cliff.
When the cash rate jumped up so much so fast, my initial instincts viewed that as a central bank creating enough overhead for an eventual massive stimulus injection. I guess we'll find out over the next 12 months.
The rub is that there is no longer the dual mandate for RBNZ, so they do not take employment into account.
New Zealand's government has simplified the central bank's monetary policy remit, removing employment as an objective and any references to the housing market.
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/hub/news/2023/12/monetary-policy-remit-amended
This amendment was announced today by the Minister of Finance Nicola Willis following consultation with the Reserve Bank.
So we can take that the finance minister was in agreement - so will be interesting to here her views as unemployment numbers and those on benefits skyrocket.
Edit: Thinking about it - no it was just a lets cancel everything Labour introduced amendment - not other thought given.
Agreed and to me the real issue in that scenario is the NZD will be depreciating to the extent that price pressures will emerge in tradables inflation and then with the explicit mandate the RBNZ has what will they then do? All that could slow that is a structural turn in the USD
Indeed, the US is holding the rest of the world to ransom. US households are insulated from interest rate rises by their 30-year fixed-rate mortgages and Govt deficit spending is keeping the economy pumping along (real estate aside). Meanwhile, other countries are stuck on higher rates than their economies can stand because they don't want to crash their currencies.
Worth noting that despite high consumer spending and record low unemployment, inflation has subsided in the US for the same reasons it has subsided everywhere - it was never an excess demand problem there (or here, or anywhere).
Those in the US who have a low rate of 3 doing ok , but the current entrance is 6.78%
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US
hence the calls to cut to help that sector
NZ goods inflation was pretty clearly driven by demand - partly from stimulus, partly a shift from services demand which had been turned off. The increase in consumption is not consistent with supply/cost driven inflation.
To a lesser extent the same effect can be seen in services once demand there was switched back on with the removal of covid restrictions.
Would agree it's not a major factor now, but it was a massive factor in kicking off the inflation cycle.
I know we will never reconcile our differences on this point, but I just don't buy that the demand was that relevant. I am not saying it didn't make a difference but it will be marginal. The picture link you have posted above doesn't work, but when I have looked at what you have shared before, it looked like you were measuring the amount spent (a function of price x volume) rather than the volume purchased (a better measure of demand). The amount spent went up because import prices went up. You can see this as clear as day here. You can compare the volume and value of imports here - how much does demand really shift there?
Where demand will have made a difference is in the extra profit margin taken by our huge wholesale and retail sectors in 2020/21 - a margin they could take because they had market power and people had money to spend. This added maybe 100pts to CPI in the early days, but those profits quickly retreated when costs started going up. Here's the figures all industries here.
Please try the link again later, I think the site is just being slow. Can't see your "clear as day link" for the same reason. Infuriating that every link I share with you seems to break!
And no, I'm not looking at total amount, I'm looking at inflation adjusted household expenditure from the national accounts data, as well as inflation adjusted goods imports. If you could see the graph you would very quickly see the direction of causation - prices clearly lag volumes.
The difference between my analysis and yours in the past has been that I have looked at goods and services separately. Without doing that you can't appreciate the role that demand played, because the changes in demand for goods and services had very different movements and largely cancel out at total level. You really need to take the time to understand this because it's undermining your otherwise very good analysis.
Try this link, it seems to work if I just link to the profile.
I assume the deflation is import specific, it's the official volumes data from Stats NZ. I've reindexed it and taken a rolling 4 quarter average to smooth out lockdown noise, but otherwise it's as Stats NZ published it. I think my chart is specifically consumption goods for the imports line (which is less strong than household consumption volumes, but still clearly increases, and does so immediately before prices do.
Yes, that works, thanks. The link to my profile page is here: https://foester.imgbb.com/
The first graph in the gallery looks at consumption, imports prices, and import volumes. The correlation between change in CPI and goods import prices is around 60%. The correlation between change in consumption and CPI is about 4%. That feels about right to me - demand mattered, but not much?
Lyn Alden
brilliant analyst -
here is a great link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg8p6oSGZGk&t=75s
Oddlots, Economics for Rebels, Cory Doctorow, Debunking Economics (sometimes), Macro N Cheese (sometimes). I tend to seek out heterodox economists I want to listen to - particular if they are debating with people they don't agree with. Isabella Weber is always good value, Steven Hail is outstandingly clear on monetary operations, Steve Keen arguing with economists like Robert Murphy is always good fun.
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