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OECD warns on Omicron, separately on NZ; global factories expanding, except in China; Turkey sells reserves to prop up lira; Aussie Q3 GDP slips; UST10yr 1.44%; oil and gold recover; NZ$1 = 68.4 USc; TWI-5 = 73.1

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OECD warns on Omicron, separately on NZ; global factories expanding, except in China; Turkey sells reserves to prop up lira; Aussie Q3 GDP slips; UST10yr 1.44%; oil and gold recover; NZ$1 = 68.4 USc; TWI-5 = 73.1

Here's our summary of key economic events overnight that affect New Zealand with news the world's factories seem to be in a good expansion mode - except in China.

But first we should note that the OECD says the rise of the Omicron pandemic variant threatens to intensify supply shortages and inflation. They are positive about New Zealand with strong growth forecasts for this year and next, but they are warning of an overheating economy here and excessive inflation that will need to be addressed.

Countries are hardening their border responses to the Omicron threat, which in turn will slow international travel and the related industries that thought they were on the way back.

The US ADP employment report, ahead of this weekend's non-farm payrolls report, shows a broad-based rise in hiring, even if it isn't a special jump. Analysts see the non-farm payrolls rising a similar +550,000 in November to keep their expansion on track.

There were many November PMIs released around the world overnight. In the US, the ISM one expanded slightly faster on strong new order data. The Markit one slipped from its high expansion. Both are strong expansions, both say it is demand-driven that now includes strong export order growth. Both noted improving supply chain conditions.

Canadian building permits rose in October from a year ago when a fall was expected. So that keeps their higher levels in place and they are now +14% higher than the October 2019 level when we look past the 2020 pandemic-affected data.

Canada's factories maintained their good expansion.

And so did the EU, where Italy deserves a special mention because it posted a record high expansion. Greece is doing well too.

And Japan is expanding faster, as is India.

However, although the official stats suggested Chinese factories started expanding again in November, the unofficial review (which recently has been more optimistic than the official view) reports that moved from a very modest expansion in October, to a contraction in November. This survey has seen little to cheer about all year.

And the expansions in South Korea, Vietnam and Thailand were all pretty lackluster, dragged down by China. Taiwan stood out in this region, perhaps Malaysia too.

An update on the Turkish lira. It has now devalued -35% in the past eight weeks, taking the total five year devaluation to -73%. Currency devaluations like this certainly don't make a country stronger or improve living standards. Turkey is now selling its reserves to keep the currency from falling even further.

And separately, we should note that Auckland is now the 27th most expensive city to live in, globally, and is rising fast in this dubious ranking. It was 38th most expensive last year.

In Australia, their latest factory PMI is positively positive, expanding at a faster rate in November than the good rate reported in October. Input prices rose at a record rate amid supply shortages.

Australia also reported stronger than expected Q3 GDP economic growth of +3.9% for the year to September. But this was achieved because the July to September shrinkage came in less than feared. Delta's hit to the Aussie economy wasn't as hard as initially thought.

Australia's house price rises may be coming to an end. Overall values were up a mere +1.3% in November, with median Sydney prices rising less than +AU$10,000 (+0.9%) and median Melbourne prices rising less than +AU$5000 (+0.6%) for the month, unusually small increases for them.

In Australia, pandemic cases in Victoria rose to 1179 cases reported there yesterday. There are now 11,959 active cases in the state - and there were another 6 deaths yesterday. In NSW there were another 251 new community cases reported yesterday, with 2633 active locally acquired cases, and they had no deaths yesterday. But they are reporting a rising number on Omicron cases. Queensland is reporting no new cases. The ACT has 4 new cases. Overall in Australia, just under 87% of eligible Aussies are fully vaccinated, plus a bit under 6% have now had one shot so far.

The UST 10yr yield opens today at 1.44% and -1 bps lower from this time yesterday. The UST 2-10 rate curve starts today flatter at +87 bps. Their 1-5 curve is little-changed at just over +93 bps, while their 3m-10 year curve is unchanged at +136 bps. The Australian Govt ten year benchmark rate has fallen -1 bp to 1.67%. The China Govt ten year bond is unchanged at 2.89%. The New Zealand Govt ten year is down -3 bps at 2.41%.

Wall Street has recovered most of yesterday's fall, up +1.5% in early Wednesday afternoon trade. Overnight, European markets rose by more than +2.5% although London was only up +1.5%. Yesterday Tokyo rose +0.4%. Hong Kong rose +0.8% while Shanghai was rose +0.4%. The ASX200 fell -0.3% yesterday, while the NZX50 closed flat.

The price of gold will start today at US$1785/oz and recovering all of yesterday's US$11 fall.

And oil prices have recovered a portion after yesterday's sharp fall, up +US$2.50 to be just over US$67/bbl in the US, while the international Brent price is now just over US$70.50/bbl.

The Kiwi dollar opens today firmer at 68.4 USc and a full +½c rise. Against the Australian dollar we are unchanged at 95.9 AUc. Against the euro we are a tad firmer at 60.4 euro cents. That means our TWI-5 starts today at 73.1 and off its recent lows. And its worth noting that the Chinese yuan has appreciated +5% over the past month against the NZD.

The bitcoin price has risen to now be at US$58,744 and +3.3% above the level at this time yesterday. Volatility over the past 24 hours has been moderate at just over +/- 2.2%.

The easiest place to stay up with event risk today is by following our Economic Calendar here ».

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94 Comments

Love how the value of Luxon's properties blowing out is being held against him, instead of the same level of scrutiny being put on the Labour Government with an absolute majority who could actually do something meaningful about it like they campaigned on for almost a decade and who have actually caused the problem.

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Labour can't do anything about it, either. They are captured by the same political spinelessness as National - and all the rest. It's called the Property Investment Magic Money Tree, and all of them want to invite the turkey to a seat at Christmas dinner. All of them....

(NB: I have no issue with anyone doing anything they like with their own money. But when it comes to necessities, like housing, using debt to enhance personal resources is destructive to society.)

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Non-sensical house prices are the result of  the enormous amounts of credit directed into the housing ponzi.

The banks love it as it creates huge profits for them. They lobby and bully every government, whatever the hue, to maintain the status quo.

Luxon owns 7 houses and was supported into the role of leader of the National party by John Key, the chairman of ANZ Bank NZ Limited.

Join the dots and ask yourself what are the chances that this "new broom" will do anything regarding the monster that is NZ house prices?

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The Banks sure do love it, The amount of futire GDP/Energy that they have now laid claim to, is staggering, as this TE graphic shows.

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And a major challenge he will face, as will JA, is around the fact that Auckland in now the 27th most expensive city in the world to live in. The thing is these living costs, are common across the country and reflect the costs that all ordinary kiwis face on a daily basis. Bigger cities also have the commute, but smaller cities and towns have higher rates and other costs. Inflation has been chewing away at stagnant wage levels for some time now and is largely denied by the Government. 

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Exactly. Inflation is the old dreaded sleeping partner, that like rust, never sleeps. Gnawing away already substantially at household budgets and those unfortunate enough to have mortgage terms ending from now on are going to feel the double pinch, very much so.

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what do you mean, does a smile and a wave not make the realities of living in such an overpriced country just evaporate away. You would think it does by how JA ratings are still fairly high. It's bewildering how these voters don't see what is happening and about to happen.

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I think it is the combo of smile and wave on hearing the bad news followed by a frowny-face when slowly explaining how she would like to do something about it but you know...reasons.  God help us if she adds a shoulder shrug to her armoury, that really would be a "fatality!" (game ref)

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A lot of folk choose not to see what is happening, and about to happen,

Ideologically blinkered, most of them. Spin doctors, the rest.

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I don’t actually get why Luxons homes are such a scandal. He earned $4 million a year as Air NZ chief - what did everybody think he did with the money ( help the homeless- and if he did he’s leading the wrong party). Housing is NZ’s greatest investment pool and a national pastime - I mean everybody has a property portfolio don’t they? Except possibly anybody under 35 who will never own property. 

I would have thought with NZ’ property obsession he would have already been considered one of NZ’ greatest leaders and hero’s 

 

ti 

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He did what he was encouraged  to do by our regulations and tax policy. It's those that need changing, and that, will change sentiment around  wealth allocation. Chances of that happening whilst property speculation is so bedazzling in our politicians eyes? ZERO!

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Why did he not buy Air NZ shares or invest in a NZ tech sector? He is touted as this amazing businessman so if that is the case then NZ is full of very clever business...people.

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Probably because he wouldn't have been able to Leverage It Up!

Want to buy another investment property? "How much would you like to borrow? 10 times your personal stake?" Want to do the same for shares? "Oh, I don't know about that...."

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Agreed, other than bitcoin property was the best performing asset class due to the taxation rules of the day.  

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It's actually much more even these days. Investors will struggle to get an LVR of more than 60% for property, while ASB (for example - there are other companies in the market) offer margin lending on shares ranging from 40 to 70% depending on the security. 

The main difference is the interest rate - presumably thanks to RBNZ weightings and less competitive market, margin lending attracts much higher rates than mortgages. 

I do note Air NZ are not currently on the list of securities which ASB allow margin lending on, presumably because ASB realise the upcoming capital raise in the new year is going to wipe out small investors. Their current share price defies common sense. 55% LVR on Auckland Airport though - backed by significant land and property. 

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frazz....How do you know he didn't? Ignorance is bliss

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If he invested in Air NZ shares while working there it will have been announced to the NZX, so anyone wanting to check that could find out fairly easily. I haven't looked myself, but I'd be surprised if he didn't pick up some shares along the way either with his own money or as part of his pay package. 

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He likely has investments in all sorts of shares around the world and many other different investment categories for all we know, its really none of our business. $4 million dollar salary has to go somewhere.

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At the moment it's none of our business. If he became PM it becomes very relevant if a high percentage of his net worth is in NZ property, as his incentives no longer align with the majority of NZers. Just like it would become highly relevant if he still had a large holding of Air NZ, which could influence how his government deals with the company, or if he was a significant holder of Fletchers or any other company. 

Ideally he'd place everything other than the home(s) he actually lives in into a blind trust to remove any suspicion, if he does become PM. 

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No.  It is our business now - he's working for us.

All his investments (above a certain threshold)should be disclosed and then placed in a blind trust. Should be same for all politicians.

Why do you think we have a bloated property market and politicians holding multiple houses?

 

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Rastus...so it follows that your employer is entitled to know all your financial and private information? If it is legal it is none of your business, some people need to get off high horse.Many hypocritical opinions circulating around at the moment by fixated view points. Who in their right mind is going to put their hand up for political office if this amount of invasive scrutiny is expected in private life. As taxpayers we do not own politicians they are still entitled to some privacy so get real 

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rastus

It seems that you can’t grasp that people do things and are capable of making decisions that are not driven by money and personal gain.

The reality is that the base salary of the Leader of the Opposition is under $300,000 and even Prime Minister under $500,000. At AirNZ his base salary was $4million. While he probably couldn’t demand that now no doubt there would be plenty of CEO roles - and even a number of directorships - which he could take many times that of either LoO or PM.

Possibly you need to look at your values.

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Your glasses look a little too rose-tinted to me. Corruption of various types is very real and self-interest impacts on decisions whether we want to acknowledge that or not. I expect that Chris is not going into Politics to get rich, but owning 7 properties will mean however hard he tries, he will not see things the same as those currently locked out of the property market and is less likely to take actions to bring prices down for the good of the country.

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If you are under 35 and earn $4m pa you can afford to buy a house.  Where would you put the $2m disposable income - term deposit? shares? works of art?  The only sensible investment is in something you understand - for some that may be obscure small businesses or commercial property but for most of us it is housing.

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"Luxon said his property ownership was his own “personal affairs” and was not contributing to the housing crisis."

Sell your three investment properties (for a tidy profit I might add) which will add to the housing stock first home buyers have to choose from. That would be a bold move and would put a positive spin on Luxon, instead of him getting beaten up about this (LOL, surely he saw this coming?)

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If I could, I would sell my 8 flats that are in one block to 8 separate first home buyers. Trouble is we can't. The council rules say they are in one title and if you want to split them to 8 titles it's a hell of a long and expensive process. Forget it. But that means we make ALL of the capital gain rather than spread to 8 happy first home owners. There is tens of thousands of properties just like ours, many are flats but quite a few are stand alone houses

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The guy just looked totally out of touch with middle New Zealand in that interview.  Oh i don't actually know how much my properties are worth.  An increase in my wealth of $10 million this year is just crumbs, not even worth the time it would take to count.

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It was a bit awkward I agree, he is still feeling out his media position I think.  He could have made much, much more of the opportunity to drive home how outrageous the house price increases have been under Labour.

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Luxon could easily turn this fact around on Labour. Labour's ineptitude created these gains. Of that there is no doubt! 

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There’s that word from the OECD - overheated economy. That’s the problem for the RBNZ. Raising interest rates slowly on the basis something may go wrong is a great strategy IF something goes wrong, but if nothing goes wrong and your economy is overheating - it’s the worst strategy possible other than doing nothing.

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Australian Cash Rate still sitting on 0.10

SO NZD/AUD parity soon? 

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Turkey in the straw, a very old tune, very old volatile nation, but the political instability & dire state of the economy must be worrying for the EU at least, and to the east the unrest on the border with Russian controlled Syria even more combustible. On a lighter note though, during the build up to the Crimean war, an old fogey rose in the House of Lords to question whether Russia should invade Turkey from behind, would Greece help?

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Blinken has warned Russia at a NATO conference, and at the same time Shinzo Abe has warned China against invading Taiwan, invoking it's defence agreements with the US. The west is facing down the bear and dragon for the moment, but some years ago I was told of a prophesy, Nostradamus I think, that the west fights the bear and the bear wins. Time will tell.

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This would be the same Blinken, whose country has invaded how many countries over the last 50 years? Talk about hypocrisy!

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Yes the Americans are very guilty of removing Governments they don't like, but here's a question. How many of those countries they invaded had a democratically elected Government (Chile was one - it is the only one?), and how many are American states today? I suspect very few if more than Chile are in that mix. How many of them were aggressive to other countries.

I'm not defending the US, but I am trying to maintain a non-binary debate that understands the grey.

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I take your point. But that's the perspective you and I have been educated to believe is the right one?

We've all grown up with "Democracy is the best and only way!". Likewise, 'Russians' probably have different classes in Politics 101. And the way it's looking to me, China seems to be on the path to ultimate success. And Democratic, it aint.

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It is interesting isn't it? Russian people reportedly prefer strongman leaders, which explains much of Putin's posturing. It is as much for domestic consumption for popularity than anything else. But I would also suggest that with his KGB background, connections and training he is fairly brutal and efficient at removing any potential rivals.

As to China - you may be being a little naive. The CCP works hard at keeping the population under control. It is by no means certain that they are universally popular, but rather accepted. But the information in China is strictly controlled so many Chinese's perspective of their history is quite different from ours. I often wonder today with the many Chinese who travel, what they think of the different versions of Chinese history that are available in the west?

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The problem with China isn't whether Peng Shuai is crushed because she criticised a powerful CCP official or maybe she is just taking a break; not whether Uighurs are ill treated in concentration camps or happy adult students of mandarin language. The problem is we cannot find out and if the worst is not happening today it might tomorrow.

Democracy may not work but it is better than an autocracy with modern technology.

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USA arrived late globally in terms of imperialism but they sure moved fast. The annexation of Hawaii was corrupt & the war with Spain that acquired Cuba & the Philippines etc was falsely declared.After that many interventions & incursions globally but not actually much new territory in itself. The thing is US industry enriches itself on the military budget doesn’t it and combined with a hawkish administration as per Bush junior there has  been more impulse than thought too often.

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yes the Military Industrial complex in the US profits hugely from US adventurism. I strongly suspect that most Presidents come under considerable pressure from it to keep it up. Understanding that puts into perspective the leadership's mistaken belief in WMD in Iraq, and going into Afghanistan without an exit plan.

Also having done a bit of reading on the matter, I am inclined to believe that it was the MI that assassinated JFK. He was going to pull out of Viet Nam, and they would have believed they were about to lose a lot of money, or alternatively that he could not be controlled or influenced by them and then became a threat that way.

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There is a misconception that those European empires were profitable. England and Holland did very well while foreign places were under the control of East India companies or African slave traders.  Once they converted control into sovereignty - drew lines an maps and declared them imperial possessions then they became a cost.  When England was easily the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world when declared India part of the empire in 1858; by the time of Indian independence in 1947 it was nearly bankrupt.  Similarly the great empires of Portugal and Spain left them in poverty.

While America controls remotely it gets wealthier via trade; when it tries to rule foreign territory (Iraq, Afghanistan) it pours money down the drain.  

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 The Tripartite World Order and the Hybrid World War

General Mark Milley, America’s highest-ranking military officer, has recently gone public with a revelation of his: the world is no longer unilateral (with the US as the unquestioned world hegemon) or bilateral (as it was with the US and the SU symmetrically balancing each other out in an intimate tango of mutual assured destruction). It is now tripartite, with three major powers—the US, Russia and China—entering a “tripolar war.” That is the exact term he is reported to have used at the Aspen Security Forum on November 3, 2021.

This seems strange, since neither Russia nor China is eager to attack the US while the US is in no condition to attack either of them. The US has just got defeated in a two-decade conflict against a fourth-rate adversary (Afghanistan, that is) in the most humiliating way possible, abandoning $80 billion of war materiel and forsaking thousands of its faithful servants in a hasty withdrawal that amounted to a rout. It is about to suffer a similar fate in Syria and Iraq. Its navy just got humiliated in a minor skirmish with the Iranians over an oil tanker. Clearly, the US is in no shape to attack anyone.

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Yes indeed and if you consider the depth of “influence” Russia & China now exert, it is a staggering swathe of territory. Myanmar, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria & undoubtedly soon Iraq. From the sub continent to the Mediterranean & apart from Syria, scarcely any military adventures.

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This sample just illustrates that the US military, one highly dependent on high tech, has learnt nothing from Viet Nam and cannot cope with low tech enemies. But China and Russia are not in this realm. This puts the anecdote about the Colonel who got into trouble during an exercise when he was commanding the OpFor, supposedly a low tech militia style force and thoroughly trounced the Blue forces, into perspective. But then the Russians also lost to the low tech opposition. China doesn't have that experience as far as I'm aware.

But it would be foolish to compare the types of conflicts. And while Milley might be apparently backing down as the Chairman of the JCS, Blinken actually speaks for the administration. Russian adventurism in Europe would create many problems and NATO may not have much choice if Russia moves.

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Yes I read up on that too Muz & fascinating stuff it was for sure. Underestimate the  basics at your peril indeed. Sounds a bit like the ABs doesn’t it.

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Too right!

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The prophesy is that the Cougar and the Bear will unite to defeat the Dragon. If the Cougar is the US, the Bear is Russia and the Dragon is China then we are not in that space yet. For this to happen at some point Russia will realign it's alliances presumably to protect itself from Chinese incursions. 

I think that Russia currently believes the EU and the US to be weak or unwilling to protect the Ukraine so the Russians are playing games to see if they can engineer a situation where they can chip off another piece of the Ukraine. This is how the Czarist Russian Empire was built after all. 

Meanwhile China waits for Taiwan to be rejoined to the motherland and it's surrounding tribute states to adopt the correct attitude to the Imperial throne. After that has been achieved, the next goal will be the return of Manchuria to the motherland. Half of which currently sits within Russia. It is at this point that the Russians will wake up to the real danger that they face. Creating failed statelets on your Western borders may be a good strategy when you have the biggest army in town but is a very bad strategy when your Eastern neighbour decides it's time to create 4-6 fronts for you to fight on in the west by supporting rebel groups and bleeding you of men and money while extending it's own border at your eastern province's expense.

Tsar Nicolas II found this out when Russia lost the Russo-Japanese war of 1905.

Russia can often find a good general to save it when that nation is truly in strife but this is often when Russia is in a very bad situation. I can only hope that the time when the US and Russia have to get together to stop Chinese over-reach is not in my lifetime.

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The adjacent territories of Mongolia & Nepal thus offer testing grounds for any expansion the CCP contemplates? The former though, lost more or less by China in the early 20th century was of quite some interest, and influence thereby, of Stalin. So much so that the Red Army led by Zhukov gave the Japanese fair hiding in exactly that territory in 1939, they defended Mongolia as if Soviet territory. Russia  & Putin unlikely to forget that nor easily accept China annexing same & one might suggest a likely flashpoint.

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Nice summary, thanks. We can hope that we avoid the war but megalomaniac egos will likely still push us there. A firm stand in the Ukraine and with Taiwan may help avoid wider escalation as the aggressors start bringing the bodies of their sons home for burial. Appeasement will just give them license.

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Omicron, confirmed in United States.

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SPX dumping, down 1.66% in the last 4 hours. 

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"And separately, we should note that Auckland is now the 27th most expensive city to live in, globally, and is rising fast in this dubious ranking. It was 38th most expensive last year."

David should be congratulating Jacinda Arden for rising and rising fast.

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Omicron invalidates vaccine passes, its just a matter of time

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Quick, get your 45th booster shot for this year, then your pass will be extended by 1 month and you can go out and eat in 1 of the 2 eateries left in Auckland CBD.

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Vaccine passes were never valid as they had no scientific backing, they were always a form of social manipulation, they allowed the government to mandate vaccination via stealth, and they created an outgroup to bolster support for the leaders in the ingroup.

If the government was truly aboveboard and honest they would have simply mandated vaccination and taken responsibility for their decision, rather than deflecting blame on to a group of unfortunates.

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Two vaccinated people have a significantly reduced chance of transmitting covid to each other than a non vaccinated person. How is the certificate not backed by science?

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How about because the vaccine certificate expires 6 months after the date you apply for it, not 6 months from your second jab?

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That and one other good thing,  are the only "possible" good things about the vaccination. What about the negatives? Do they outweigh the positives? Cannot have the debate, not allowed to

Why only vaccinations, why not treatment? Not approved but may countries are using these alledged "mumbo jumbo" treatments very sucessfully

 Are we sure that science actually proves those two good things? After all Sudam Hussien had weapons of mass destruction, didn't he? Plenty of evidence to lauch a war. Opps no  there was no evidence

 

Japan sees huge drop in cases after it switches to Ivermectin (freewestmedia.com)  

Vaggzine in Belgium - 100 per cent of ICU? - YouTube

Lancet Transmission of covid same[45889].pdf

 

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Two obese, unhealthy, vaccinated people have a significantly increased chance of transmitting covid to each other than a non-vaccinated person that has previously been infected.  That makes your certificate null and void.

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At the moment I'm more worried about Delta than Omicron. Reports indicate Omicron is extremely mild by comparison to Delta, more akin to the common flu.

WHO and Oxford/AstraZeneca have indicated that they see no evidence from initial testing that their existing vaccine won't still work against the Omicron variant.

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I'm skeptical on Omicron being more mild. I think its "mildness" is being confused with the loss of "novelty" of sars-cov-2. In that most countries (the non elimination ones anyway)  most people have been infected at some point so there is now a collective natural immunity for the virus. In essence immunological memory is rendering the virus another common cold virus as it was always destined to do.

I don't however think this leaves the "elimination" countries in a particularly good place. As our society is still faced with a "novel virus" which is much more infectious than previous strains.

 

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We'll have to see what the findings are in a few weeks.

Hypothetically, if milder, would we favour full reopening New Zealands international border to let Omicron out-compete Delta?

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Omicron may be "milder" but I'm still concrned about a common aspect of all the COVID variants - blood clots. The evidence is that all of them leave blood clots behind, with recent evidence of increased numbers of strokes from 'recovered' COVID sufferers. The medical evidence is that they don't understand why it leaves blood clots, but that the clots themselves leave considerable potential for harm down stream. 

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Sure it is not the polyethylene glycol in the vaccine that causes the clots and potential harm down stream?

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I'm not a scientist, but I am sure there is nothing stopping you from forwarding all your evidence to the relevant authorities and researchers to have them sit up and take notice?

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It's not a novel virus if you're vaccinated.

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How others see us.

Just when you thought Australia’s property market was mad, spare a thought for New Zealand...

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2021/12/just-when-you-thought-australi…

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Is this what the majority of citizens consider a functioning capitalist democracy? If not who does it serve?

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Just as Government and the Reseve Bank intended. Priced to perfection. 👌

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"Wall Street has recovered most of yesterday's fall, up +1.5% in early Wednesday afternoon trade."

What a difference a couple of hours makes!

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/.INX:INDEXSP

 

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I wonder if the sacked teachers are laughing or crying now that the DOUBlE VACCINATED  Principal has infected other staff at Nelson schools....

Guess the virus didn't get the memo about how the mandates work....

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You like pushing your perspective to the max don't you? Try a more balanced approach and you may get a better outcome and more acceptance? As it is you just come across as an extremist.

The vaccines NEVER guaranteed someone wouldn't catch it, or if they did spread it. They just limited the severity of the disease and the numbers who it would spread to v the unvaccinated. So this is not a surprise. The question should be where did the person catch it from? Somewhere in that chain is a selfish individual who ignored the rules and guidance.

And now there is emerging evidence that the mRNA vaccines create inflammation of coronary arteries. A very concerning bit of information that raises a number of questions. First that I have, under normal circumstances, i.e. not the COVID emergency, would this factor have disqualified the mRNA vaccine? Other questions - with the emergence of this information, will the government consider the NovaVax as an alternative for the booster, or even a replacement? Is the inflammation long lasting and/or does it leave a long last adverse impact?

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"Somewhere in the chain is a selfish person who didnt follow the rules..."

God help us if the majority are this clueless about how viruses work....

Are you bathing in koolaid?

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Maybe some more balance from yourself.

"Somewhere in that chain is a selfish individual who ignored the rules and guidance."

How far back up the chain do we go before we absolve the vector of any moral judgement?

Should we vaccinate the 5-12 year olds with this new evidence coming to light now?

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I've never advocated vaccinating children. In that age group their immune system is still developing so i would argue that no it shouldn't happen. But then the age old question - how do we protect children from stupid parents?

Moral decisions and judgements are not about personal issues but community safety. At an individual level morality is irrelevant really, until what you do impacts on others. If the Government had locked down the borders and said no-one in until COVID had been eliminated, what would your response be? If they took your, and young and dumb's view and said let it in and let the chips fall where they may, and it was you or your family who became listed on the negative statistics tables, what would your response be? 

The reality is we have to make decisions everyday, often on incomplete information. Our Government is also in that position, but they have a team of mostly intelligent, well educated people to help them on that, but with limited information and a pending disaster do they sit on their hands and wait or act? Currently they are being criticised for both of those things.

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I am one of those stupid parents that believe community safety has been compromised by a Pfizer drug, unapproved by the Big Pharma funded FDA and forced upon young, healthy, productive members of society, without any long-term clinical trials.  I am so stupid I preach to my kids, a good diet, exercise and sunlight always out-performs any pharmaceutical.  Stop blaming the unvaccinated for their wish to have their immune systems fight and destroy this virus, instead of relying on never ending booster shots from Big Pharma's profit driven scientists.  Young and smart is right, let the chips fall where they may, as they have for thousands of years.

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Dick you have chosen to interpret my words in a confrontational way. Choosing not to get a vaccination, in my view doesn't have to be a problem if you follow the rules, stay away from infected people, wear masks, social distance and take all the recommended precautions. But the minute you don't do these things, if you're unvaccinated, you're especially putting your kids at risk. Worse, you're knowingly doing it. My words, admittedly I didn't explain them, were aimed at normal activities. Parents every day do things that put their kids at risk in many ways, and they do it when they know better. That's who I meant. 

You're also trying to interpret a binary argument approach to the debate. Are you happy for your children to catch COVID and the risks associated with the blood clots and other aspects of the virus? A higher risk I might add than from the vaccine. If your kids die, or suffer a stroke from catching COVID, or some other negative effect, would you still have the same opinion? Or are you one of those who blissfully believe that bad shit only happens to other people? 

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My kids have more chance of a stroke from fast food, than a mild cold virus circulating.  The negative effect is synthetic chemicals injected into your bloodstream with no idea the outcome and that includes antibody enhancement and how long it lasts.  What evidence do you have that blood clots come from the virus and not the mRNA drug therapy?  You have put your belief (religion) in a bunch of 'experts', with no clinical trial evidence and that is scary.  Perhaps all the scientific evidence came from the Wuhan lab!

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"Than a mild cold virus circulating" And in that you demonstrate your ability to think critically. Say no more.

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I mean we vaccinate children and babies now against a heap of diseases including some pretty devastating ones. Should we stop all this because of <insert bulls$%t propaganda>?

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The key there being we Vaccinate,  not experiment....

When you have to change the 200 year old + definition of a vaccine is... well, hmmmm

We also created a clusterf##$^ with RSV and flu 2022 to come by not circulating these viruses through ongoing contact.... but the clever immunologists didn't see this coming apparently 

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So you're concern is with a vaccine you feel to be 'experimental' yet you're happy to take your chances with virus that was first seen in 2019 and appears to have escaped from a Wuhan lab?

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Not approved by the FDA, no long-term clinical trials.  That is an experiment and we are the lab rats! 

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"Not approved by the FDA, no long-term clinical trials.  That is an experiment and we are the lab rats! "

Or a virus that that looks to have escaped from a lab that was doing gain of function testing...

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Huh, what are you smoking? https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-…

How "long term" do you want? The initial drug tests followed patients for a year and a half now and we the Pfizer vaccine has been administered to millions for around a year.  But feel free to take your chances with COVID, it looks like many come to regret their anti vax stance after rolling the dice against a disease that is known to kill 1-3% of people. 

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most likely happy they are not there to catch it, and they have at a  factor of ten to catch it compared to jabbed,  they have no protection apart from their own immune systems so should count themselves lucky

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Lucky to be on the street.... the new improved NZ eh..?

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Is it possible to implement a vaccine pass mechanisim on this comment board?

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I used to use a chrome plugin to highlight commentators based on their propensity to apply logic and discuss topics (or not) so I knew which comments to skip over. Might need to fire it up and again and look for any correlation :)

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Sounds magic, do share :).  I know everyone should have the right to express themselves but could we just have them redirected to Stuff or NZH?  I am not even sure what the motivation is 90% of us are ALREADY vaccinated, we are beyond help, doomed to improved outcomes should we be infected.

 

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I imagine if incomes were taken into account that Auckland would be a lot worse than 27th, probably 'top 10' I suspect.

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lol, yeah "it's a fix-up" we demand a recount!  

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