By Chris Trotter*
The young man is every centimetre the twenty-first century revolutionary: young, indigenous, and draped in the keffiyeh of martyred Palestine. Like so many of his generation, raised with-on-by the smart-phone, he communicates faultlessly with his audience. And what he says is every bit as revolutionary as his looks.
Except … Except his message is aimed at an audience that until this week had not, generally, been associated with the Palestinian, or the Toitū te Tiriti o Waitangi, causes – secondary school students.
Posted on “X”, the young revolutionary’s video-post was intended to mobilise the tens-of-thousands of students who had turned out five years ago to play their part in the global “School Strike 4 Climate” (SS4C) movement. Presumably, he and his comrades had reasoned that their own causes would be immeasurably strengthened through this “intersectional” linking of the Treaty, Palestine and Climate Change.
In his own words:
“The primary tool used against the people is division – divide and conquer. Our response must be to unite. We cannot win with fragmented movements.”
Had the young revolutionary’s expectations been met, it would, indeed, have been a political triumph.
On Friday, March 15 2019, an estimated 170,000 New Zealand secondary school students took to the nation’s streets. RNZ still ranks that turnout as the “second largest” protest in New Zealand history. There is no precedent, however, for 170,000 demonstrators turning out on a single day. Those kids represented an astonishing 3 percent of the total population!
On Friday morning (5/4/24) RNZ was carrying the SS4C protest organisers’ predictions of a turnout in excess of 100,000. Protest rallies were scheduled from Whangarei to Invercargill. RNZ was also careful to share with its listeners the six demands of the protesters:
A ban on oil and gas exploration; calling a halt to the Coalition Government’s fast-track approvals bill; honouring the Te Tiriti o Waitangi; “climate education” for all; a lowering of the voting age to 16; and “Free Palestine”.
By the end of the day, however, it was clear that something very serious had gone wrong with the plan to unite the Left’s fragmented movements by, in effect, piggy-backing on the huge numbers formerly responsive to the SS4C’s summonses. Rather than a turnout in the range of 100,000: across the whole country, and by the most generous estimate, the organisers of the “Strike”, turned out a derisory 5,000 people.
By any measure, the “Strike” was a disaster. Indeed, the whole event turned out to be less than the sum of its parts. That is to say, more people turned out to rallies organised in solidarity with the people of Palestine, and/or to protests against the Coalition Government’s Treaty policies, when these were staged as separate events, than turned out for SS4C’s unity demonstrations on Friday afternoon. As for New Zealand’s secondary school students, well, apart from a few hard-core “intersectionists”, they were nowhere to be seen. The largest turnout of 5 April was in Wellington, where a few hundred kids gathered in Parliament Grounds to chant “From the river, to the sea, Palestine will be free.”
What the hell happened?
To answer that question we have to go back to 2021, and the tragic demise of SS4C Auckland at the hands of the very same intersectionist forces responsible for Friday’s debacle.
The young people behind the Auckland chapter of SS4C were responsible for turning out 80,000 protesters in 2019 – beating Labour legend John A Lee’s 1938 record of 70,000! Predictably, such extraordinary support bred deep resentment and hostility among less fulsomely supported activists. Homing in on the whiteness of the SS4C organisers’ and their middle-class origins, the “decolonisers” and “indigenisers” within the Auckland chapter’s ranks “persuaded” the leadership to shut down the most successful protest organisation in the city’s political history.
In their final communique to the people of Auckland, SS4C’s local leadership stated:
“We are disbanding because, since 2019, SS4C AKL (as well as the wider national group, though we can’t speak on their behalf) has been a racist, white-dominated space. SS4C AKL has avoided, ignored, and tokenised BIPOC [Black, Indigenous, People of Colour – C.T.] voices and demands, especially those of Pasifika and Māori individuals in the climate activism space. As well as this, the responsibility and urgent need to decolonise the organisation has been put off for far too long. SS4C also delayed paying financial reparations for the work BIPOC groups/individuals within and alongside the group have done for this organisation in the past.”
There is much, much more, all in the same vein, in this cringing example of polemical self-criticism (which would not have been out of place at a Maoist Red Guard rally circa 1967) admirably concluding with this, its guilt-tripped authors’ parting admonition:
“We fully discourage any future and current Pākehā-led groups from occupying the space we leave behind.”
Strangely enough, neither this incident, nor the subsequent collapse of the fight against global warming in Auckland’s secondary schools, is mentioned on the SS4C website promoting the 5 April “Strike”. Those intending to join the demonstrations are, however, urged to chant: “The people united – Can never be divided!”
Equally strange, but much less excusable, is the almost complete absence of mainstream media analysis of this mass-event-that-wasn’t. How could a movement which had put 3 percent of the country’s population on the streets, on a single day, have crumbled to virtually nothing in the space of five years? How could the organisers of Friday’s event have deluded themselves to the point of predicting a turnout of 100,000? And what do those same organisers make of New Zealanders’ apparent indifference (if not downright hostility) to the causes in support of which they had been invited to demonstrate?
These are important political questions.
Certainly, the dismal turnout must have given Green co-leader, Chloe Swarbrick, considerable pause. After all, she has staked a great deal of her political credibility on the proposition that she and her party can mobilise, electorally, the young, the alienated, and the disenfranchised. After Friday, however, transforming the 2026 general election into a people’s crusade would appear to be a much taller order.
Contrariwise, the failure of the “Strike” offers Messers Luxon, Seymour and Peters considerable cause for celebration. Their coalition is described on the SS4CNZ website as: “the most conservative government in our history” – a claim that would doubtless bring a wry smile to the lips of Bill Massey, Sid Holland, and Rob Muldoon. Still, if Friday’s flop is the best the New Zealand Left can set against the Great Strike of 1913, the 1951 Waterfront Lockout, and the 1981 Springbok Tour protests, then our Coalition Government can breathe a huge sigh of relief.
Perhaps the most important lesson of Friday is that political consciousness cannot be assembled like so many Lego blocks. The huge SS4C mobilisations of 2019 were symbolic of a confrontation as old as history. The intergenerational hostility encapsulated in the young Swedish founder of the movement, Greta Thunberg’s, choked challenge: “How dare you!” She spoke for the children and grandchildren of the men and women who run this world. “If you cannot save the planet for yourselves,” she seemed to be saying, “then, in Gaia’s name, save it for us – your own flesh and blood!”
The Future confronted the Present – and demanded action. Its partisans may not have displayed the revolutionary chic of the young man in the video with whom our story began, but they made their parents simultaneously proud and penitent. One-hundred-and-seventy-
The Christchurch Mosque Massacres, Covid-19, deep political disillusionment, and the jealous cruelty of the intersectionists: all had a part to play in causing the SS4C’s bright bubble of hope and passion to burst. But, while it floated above us, it was something that mattered.
Something important.
*Chris Trotter has been writing and commenting professionally about New Zealand politics for more than 30 years. He writes a weekly column for interest.co.nz. His work may also be found at http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com.
142 Comments
Some have gone down the woke rabbit-hole.
But others have realised that it is more than Climate at stake here; it is existentialism itself.
And some have been brainwashed - by politicians, by the media, by advertising.
And they are not the same cohort any more - a whole through-put has nearly happened since (and I'm noticing the reduction in critical thinking, in the new young - indeed, it reflects a lack of critical thinking in some who teach them...). Did the propaganda win? Or have these folk realised that the System will go until it doesn't; that the System is un-divertible; but that the System is so close to collapsing that they're busy inventing alternative lifestyles?
That's an argumentative fallacy known as argument by anecdote. You saying the climate seems "quite normal" to you doesn't hold up at all. Show us some statistics (preferably from reputable sources) to back it up because there is a mountain of evidence pointing towards the opposite of what you say. You can even find your location in some of the statistics (like the first link) to see the temperature rise where you are. I bet you it shows an increase. You keep burying your head in the sand though, wingman, I'm sure future generations will thank you for your service.
Pick one:
https://figure.nz/chart/O4jVyNTwcES2UvHO-k8DRL9xxv4xovfpa
https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/temperature/
https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-sea-su…
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/?intent=121
You really think global warming 'scientists' are going to produce anything that endangers their privileged positions. Where's all this flooding and global warming I've been hearing about?
It certainly isn't where I live, in fact the rainfall is way down in 2024.....how do global warmers account for that?
You're falling into the same argument trap of using anecdotes as evidence.
As for floods, I think there were a couple of big ones in our backyard last year. Not too sure though, let me check the downstairs of my house that suddenly got new flooring last year. Nevermind the huge number of floods around the globe that you aren't reading about. Just because this stuff isn't happening to you, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Talk about privilege.
It was very poorly organized, the first many hearing of it was as it was happening.
In 2019, they were protesting to a government they thought might actually listen to them. Not so with the current idiots, who don't even listen to experts.
But come the first actually threat to a environmentally fragile area, you might get your 170 k surpassed.
Last month was the coldest March in over a decade. Global warming....yeah right!!!!!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350232269/numbers-we-just-survived-cold…
Wingman, you are constantly falling into argumentative fallacies which don't help your credibility. This one is called cherry picking (which I know you've at least heard of), where you pick one data point that can work for you and use it to support your argument, while ignoring the rest of the data series or historical trends. See my other reply to your comment above for some more complete data that shows the long term trends.
Again, your head meets sand.
If Comrade Arden, Chippy and all the other failed left-wingers that destroyed NZ for 6 years had their way, the NZ economy would truly be on the economic ropes.
Farming, fishing, airlines, for the axe, extortionate petrol and diesel prices, wealth taxes, more vehicle taxes, climate taxes........how was this country going to pay its way?
Marijuana? Growing millions of trees? Build more houses for more immigrants?.....OMG!!! NZ...chokka with dreamers.
How exactly was NZ destroyed?
The NZ economy is on the ropes is it not and everyone is blaming the RBNZ and interest rates. Yet no-one wants to self reflect and acknowledge we've all contributed to it by chasing capital gains, (legal) tax avoidance, inflated house prices, unfettered self interest.
Believing that the government manages the economy is delusional. None of them, whether blue or red, left or right is even capable of managing their core functions.
Certainly, the dismal turnout must have given Green co-leader, Chloe Swarbrick, considerable pause. After all, she has staked a great deal of her political credibility on the proposition that she and her party can mobilise, electorally, the young, the alienated, and the disenfranchised.
Let me suggest that 'the kids' are tiring of the woke narrative. They're more concerned about their (and their families and friends) immediate future. They're much more cynical of what they're being fed by the likes of the Greens, the party formerly known as Team Cindy, and the wingnuts. They're not in the Team of 5 Million frame of mind because they've lost any faith in what they propose and what they deliver.
My teenage daughter cares a lot about social justice, equality and environmental protection. She would be a natural Green voter but as a feminist she was put off the Greens by the “Stomp on a TERF” banners waved by Green supporters at the Posie Parker rally. She has reasonable concerns about biological males in women’s spaces but feels that it is not safe to discuss this issue with left wing friends. The world is certainly a lot more complex these days. No wonder so many kids are depressed.
"the party formerly known as Team Cindy"
I'm sick of the creep of pathetic American-style name calling of elected officials into NZ sites, such as this one. If you are going to refer to someone, have the decency to refer to them by their proper name whether you agree with their political stance or not.
No, i don't mind collectives being named idiots. Is it any wonder good people stay away from public office positions when they see the 5h1t that they will have heaped on them by anonymous and ignorant idiots?
If you didn't like Jacinda, that's fine. Just have the decency to use her actual name.
John Key (or Shonkey) as the left called him is probably so happy you want to ban this now you no longer find it funny. The songs about murdering or raping his daughter were really funny too, as was F&*k John Key by Kim Dot Com. Strange how it happens, the left thinks they are smart and introduce this sort of thing, then gets upset when it is improved and used against them. Much like mob justice, they don't seem to like it any more now that they are the victims of it. I guess you reap what you sow. It is not specific to this site, it has been around for ages, and more specifically was accelerated by the lefts hysteria around John Key.
Treating people with respect is in fashion, Colonial. It's not an age group thing either, you just missed the boat.
Your second sentence reeks of misogyny too. I know you won't see it, but I thought you might want to know that how you really feel towards women comes across very clear in your comment.
Did you just throw around the misogyny word as a slur? We don't soft peddle it with men that have poor attitudes and who use false reasoning. Do you think that "strong independent" women - who want to be treated as the equals of men - need different treatment for some reason? As I said, white-knighting is such an antiquated practice full of old fashioned presumptions.
Not as a slur, I was describing your comment and how it comes across to a large number of people. Especially women. I was saying your comment gives signs of misogynistic thinking and therefore reeks of misogyny. Your comment says that women want to be treated as equals of men, implying they aren't. Saying they "want to be treated as equals" inherently says that they aren't.
Also, men can be treated differently for years, being given preference because of their gender, but now if we chase inputs based on equity not equality, and women get a slightly upper hand, that's too much? And "women need different treatment for some reason"? Possibly the years of "get in the kitchen" mentality that women have faced (and still face) for years? They might need a little more help to catch up to the generations of men having preferential treatment in a number of places, including employment.
And as I said. It's respect, not white knighting. I'm not even the OP of the comment but he said name calling isn't okay, and degrading women is especially gross because it falls into old fashioned thinking mentioned before where women struggle to get to the same place as men because of being held back for so long.
I had to laugh, no one voted you as spokesperson representing the views of "a large number of people." As for women being the equals of men, didn't McEnroe say that the 100 ranked mens player would beat the no 1 ranked womens player in straight sets? There's a man who simply spoke the plain and simple biological truth in terms of strength, speed and stamina. As for the "get in the kitchen mentality" - a supermajority of the world's best chefs are men. No shame there, other than what you are trying to imply - and no doubt to denigrate homemaking as a crucial role in society as well.
Yeah the comments around Paula "Benefit" and the jokes about her eating all the pies in meme culture was kinda off, it involved gender bias, body shaming, name calling, dehumanisation, even sickening animal bestiality etc but it sure was so popular amongst all the youth groups (even the politically aligned ones). No wonder she was somewhat driven towards permanently altering surgery to appeal to a visual ideal of a woman even going so far as to change entire roles. To frame the body, life changing surgery as empowerment & personal choice and not just to reduce the ever lasting fat shaming of female figures in public; yeah all power to her.
It really does factor as a part of growing up people have to learn to not personally target insults unless it is personal actions and ethics around those actions being called out.
Te Whatu Ora however will always be Te Fucku Ora to me simply because of the actions of the ministry and management against the health of the people and the wellbeing of the front line staff who they often deem as not deserving of minimum wage even today.
The woke have done enormous damage to themselves here. When I was a kid there was no woke left putting gender and climate nonsense in my ear. It wasn't a thing. We grew up without that stress. Unfortunately for them (the woke and the useless) have lied to the kids, the kids (well some of them) have embarrassed themselves and have learned that these people have been lying to them. Kids won't forget this, and the kids that have been conned are now probably the victims of bullying at school for being so obviously gullible.
We certainly knew about these things. We were not herded out to protest though. We were kids. We just knew something was happening. Did not necessarily understand or care, as kids shouldn't. These issues that you listed were also actually happening. These kids protesting have been told lies about the TOW, lies about what is happening in Palestine, and think the world is ending because of some climate emergency. These subjects are quite different. Your list is real, and mattered. what these kids have been told is just woke crap.....and is probably affecting their learning at school too.
I do remember at the very beginning that the woke media breathlessly reported that Israel bombed a hospital (and killed I forget how many people). Everyone condemned it of course.....and then it was found to be a lie. Really one of Hama's rockets had misfired and they had bombed themselves. But the kids remember the lie at the beginning of course....So, Hamas makes up a lie. Media report it without checking their sources, children get fed the BS and then go and protest about it. Sad really. So, unless you have some inside information on this lie, and can now prove otherwise I guess we will just have to go with the fact it was a lie and influenced a lot of peoples thinking. There is also this narrative that 30000 are dead as a result of the war is some sort of first. That number is very small. Go watch some WWII documentaries. Tens of thousands died every day. 20+ million people. 30,000 is nothing, although sad, it is nothing in the history of war. People die in wars, especially if the terrorists hide behind women and children. If they hide, anything in front of them is a legitimate target. But unfortunately for the people of Palestine that is how cowards fight. I bet our kids protesting know nothing about the cowardly tactics of Hamas.
There you go. New headline:
“Hama bombs self. Brainwashed New Zealanders protest anyway”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-explosion.html
…..and this is just one. Most major outlets retracted.
There is also this narrative that 30000 are dead as a result of the war is some sort of first. That number is very small
I thought you said the kids have been told lies? So it is happening, confused?
To date, more than 31,184 Palestinians have been killed and 72,889 injured, according to the local health authorities. As of 12 March, 247 Israeli soldiers have been killed in Gaza with 1,475 injured since the start of the ground operation, Israeli army data shows.
Throw in the aid workers, complete destruction of infrastructure - but the biggest point is what a soulless comment you posted?
You can find the links yourself I am sure. This war that people protest about was triggered by a war crime (by Hamas). You need to remember that. The action taken is justified, and can be brought to an end by Hamas whenever they choose to surrender and release the hostages they have. They refuse to do this, and so they suffer the consequences. It really is quite simple. They even refuse to accept cease fire terms and people continue to die. Their whole point for starting this was to create a wider war and drag other parties in, and that failed. Obviously they are the good guys in your eyes, but that is for from the case in reality.
Oh look, someone who thinks that the atrocities began on Oct 7 2023 with no historical context or rationale. Here's a couple of things you need to know. Firstly, international law permits an occupied, invaded people to take any measures of resistance necessary against the foreign occupying force. Secondly, the IDF killed many of its own civilians to prevent them from being taken hostage and indeed at last estimate, has killed dozens of Israeli hostages held by Hamas through reckless aerial saturation bombing campaigns of civilian neighbourhoods. Look up the IDF "Hannibal Directive". After all you don't have the problem of a hostage situation if the hostages aren't alive.
Yeah. You are right. They both shifted on to these lands 20 years ago didn’t they, and they really just don’t get on that well and that’s all it’s about. Of course I know the history. Probably a lot better than most, and definitely more than all of the people that protest, who seem to no very little (if anything) other than what the Greens tell them.
Actually the formation of Israel started in 1948 with brutal Israeli paramilitary groups, Irgun, the Stern Gang etc. ethnically cleansing a couple of hundred thousand Palestinians out of their homes, farms and towns via the use of extreme violence. Look up "Nakba" for more details.
Protip Israel and other Jewish and Semitic nations were there more than 2000 years ago. They were there before the Muslim religion even existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kingdoms_of_the_Levant_Map_830.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
You want a starting point of the ethnic issues between the two groups try the Muslim invasions and the many forced conversions & genocides of Jewish people in the region. You want a starting point for identification of Palestinian Muslims try between 200-150 years ago when genocides of Jewish people were still occurring in the region.
Hence why the two groups are each others closest genetic ancestors. Its not because one is a colonizer (that was the Romans and early Muslim emperors, political groups that do not exist today).
Oh look, someone who thinks that the atrocities began on Oct 7 2023 with no historical context or rationale. Protip Israel and other Jewish and Semitic nations were there more than 2000 years ago. They were there before the Muslim religion even existed. But you throw in many invasions and genocides against Jewish people including the Muslim lead genocides that continued right up to modern times and yeah oh look they still are completely treated as if they do not belong in their historical lands as the rightful indigenous culture. Even as mosque on the Temple Mount is built on the historical Jewish remains. A move commonly done by invaders and colonizers to erase the indigenous religious temples.
Right on the money jeremyr! It astounds me that most cannot see what Hamas tried to do. The butchery and atrocities they committed when they went across the boarder was to provoke Israel into EXACTLY what has eventuated. As you say, to hopefully trigger a region wide war against Israel. Huge cowardly gamble by Hamas that has been a spectacular failure for them. People need to understand that the puppet master here is IRAN! (and probably Russia as well)
Hamas and therefore the Palestinians are also guilty of genocide. As was pointed out above intent is guilt apparently, and these nice people from Hamas have out into their charter that their objective is the extermination of the Jews. Nobody seems to protest about that though, why aren’t they (Hamas) in The Hague defending this position, and why are the UN not questioning themselves as they to are involved in this via their workers that participated in the slaughter of civilians that led to where we are now. Not just a few of them either.
Odd you haven't noticed that Hamas - which was funded and supported by Israel as a counterweight to Fatah and Arafat - changed its constitution several years ago to clearly say that it opposed the Israeli state, not the Jewish people, and that Hamas would effectively accept an equitable two state solution to end the conflict.
Unfortunately Iran, sworn enemy of Israel and Hamas' sponsors, don't - and they are now the ones driving events with Hamas, the Yemeni Houthis who are attacking the shipping and a number of other groups in the area.
The proxy conflicts Iran sponsors make those organisations toxic to the more progressive states in the area, and it's why refugees aren't being accepted by the neighbouring Arab states because the associations with Iran via Hamas means they are too potentially destabilising in a not terribly stable part of the world.
And the poor bloody civilians are the meat in the sandwich between a group of trigger happy over-reactors and remote entities with deep agendas.
Nah not really. The reason that Egypt won't accept Palestinian refugees from Gaza is multifactorial. Firstly the Egyptian economy is already in tatters and the last thing they need are one to two million dispossessed refugees from Gaza. Secondly Cairo is not about to assist Israel carry out a second Nakba and ethnic cleansing. Thirdly the Egyptian street is vehemently anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian. The Egyptian govt knows that it is inviting civil unrest if they are seen to be cooperating with Netanyahu's plans. A fourth reason is the influence (and money) that the USA still holds over the country. These factors in their broad strokes are effectively the same for all these Middle East countries from Jordan to Saudi Arabia.
Last point, the resistance groups against Israel in the Middle East aren't "Iranian proxies" although they tend to be friendly with Iran and cooperate on many levels. Otherwise they are in fact local groups with grassroots local support and local goals and objectives.
If Hamas cared for Palestinians they would not have attacked Israel and/or returned the hostages. Israeli retribution for the attrocities committed by Hamas was predictably swift and ruthless. The US levelled Iraq in retribution for an act they didn't even commit based on fabricated evidence (WMD/9/11).
When you come across comments as narrow-focused (in time and/or perspective) as the drivel from Jeremy R, you have to ask: Why?
And always, the answer is: This person is too far down some track - income, peer, mana - to redress/retreat if they're wrong. So fear overrides; they convince themselves that NOTHING contra to their required narrative, can be possible, So unscoped do they get, that they lump Climate (which they obviously need to deny culpability in/of, with wokeness - which is something completely different; a social reaction; interesting to contemplate, but not an existential threat.
In all likelihood, their wokeness is a reaction to being handed a poisoned chalice; a f---ed, overpopulated planet.
It is rather revealing that you find directly comparable the clearly dishonest US war crime of Bush Jr's Iraq invasion which occurred under false pretences with the Israeli retribution you mentioned just prior. Anyone who knows of the massive Gazan off-shore gas field will also know that Israeli authorities have been waiting for the perfect excuse to expel all Palestinians into Egypt and take ownership of that resource entirely for itself.
PALESTINE ANTI-SEMETISM
“I shall not be ashamed to confess that if I had the power, as I have the will, I would select a score of efficient young men – intelligent, decent, devoted to our ideal and burning with desire to help redeem Jews – and I would send them to the countries where Jews are absorbed in sinful self-satisfaction. The task of these young men would be to disguise themselves as non-Jews, and plague these Jews with anti-Semitic slogans, such as ‘Bloody Jew,’ ‘Jews go to Palestine,’ and similar ‘intimacies’. I can vouch that the results in terms of considerable immigration to Israel from these countries, would be ten thousand times larger than the results brought by thousands of emissaries who have been, for decades, preaching to deaf ears.”
Editor ‘Sharun’
Editorial article in official newspaper of the governing Labor Party – “Davar”, Israel – July 11, 1952
I'm so relieved to hear that the Genocide currently happening in Palestine is just some fake news. Thank you for that. I was worried that, after 50 years of Israel carving extra chunks of the region for itself and building houses, one of their neighbours might have got a little upset and done something to try and even the score, causing some massive military response resulting in something like 1700000 people being displaced.
/sarc.
I seem to remember that this case was heard in the Hauge already ? The court warned Israel not to commit genocide and to do what it could to prevent civilian deaths. There was no conviction for genocide. People scream genocide all the time, but they really need to understand what it means. Hint - it does not mean civilian collateral damage, it means to exterminate or seek to exterminate a race of people. That is not what is happening.
Intent is important:
The UN definition of Genocide:
The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part. It does not include political groups or so called “cultural genocide”.
If the intent is there, then it's genocide, or possibly cultural genocide.
I don’t disagree with what you have put here, if they are the rules, then they are the rules. However they don’t have the intent, and if they did there would be a lot more than 30k dead by now. Go back to WWII and you will find more than 30k civilians killed per day in camps built for purpose, and that was genocide.
Er no in fact significant amounts of Muslims live in Israel, significant numbers live worldwide amongst Jewish people and the state of Israel is not targeting for mass death. Lookup the definition of genocide and use a dictionary if you have to but realize you can either call any eviction or limitation of living a genocide (and realize NZ has more genocide in the last 20 years and you are participating openly in it) or you can call the specific goal to eradicate an entire ethnicity a genocide. Hamas is not an ethnicity they are an unelected terrorist group that does more to harm their own people then anyone else.
However you fight any war in a urban setting and you get urban destruction, no matter which side is firing rockets. There is also significant issues with landlocked areas that do not have a water access or open borders with neighbours they share ethnic and culture affinity to, say Egypt. There will always be issues in Gaza because by intention the leadership of Hamas is intentionally drawing out the war to further political aims no matter the cost even as they know that the civilian populace was dependent on its neighbours (all 2 of them) for essential needs and neither the one they attacked or the one they are allies with are supporting Hamas in the war. Hamas are also the ones who are limiting the delivery of aid as much as IDF is. But you would be a complete idiot to expect any warring military groups to be set up to deliver aid.
It would be like expecting Russian military to be the leading player and responsible for the delivery of aid to Ukrainians. I don't see you calling genocide against Russia or claiming they should be taking over full aid security delivery responsibility through war zones. Hmm racist much.
Are sure that it's not happening? All the Palestinians have been pushed out. 30000 dead people is a lot of collateral damage; you've got to wonder if the IDF (which is a very capable and modern military) is not putting much effort into avoiding civilian casualties. The infrastructure will take decades to replace. A generation of middle east Arabs are finding a reason to hate the Israel state and the West in general.
Yes, Israel was provoked. But at what point do you say the retaliation has gone too far? Furthermore, let's not forget the recent bombing in Syria that took out those Iranian military people. Israel currently feels that it can do what it likes, where it likes. Maybe they figure that they've got themselves into such a hole in Palestine what lobbing a few missiles over the border into Syria will not be noticed. I wouldn't be surprised if Israel decided to annex the Gaza strip when they're done.
It would be like expecting Russian military to be the leading player and responsible for the delivery of aid to Ukrainians. I don't see you calling genocide against Russia or claiming they should be taking over full aid security delivery responsibility through war zones to Ukranian people. Why is this case that is not unique to all other wars in history different. Hmm racist much.
Lookup the definition of genocide and use a dictionary if you have to but realize you can either call any eviction or limitation of living a genocide (and realize NZ has more genocide in the last 20 years and you are participating openly in it) or you can call the specific goal to eradicate an entire ethnicity a genocide. Hamas is not an ethnicity they are an unelected terrorist group that does more to harm their own people then anyone else.
Humans have been committing genocide since day dot - all Empires conquering others, Doctrine of Discovery (colonization), Christian crusades, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, species extinction of natural flora and fauna, etc.
The dictionary definition is too narrow when limited to just humans and killing. Destroying one's culture, enslavement is just as demoralising to one's identity and connection.
I wonder in this day these protests would be called woke?
No. Because the narratives were different then. It wasn't all wrapped up in identity politics and the level of debate was at a higher level.
In the 60s era, the Weather Underground in the US were rejected to some degree by the Black Panthers and working class poor.
Why was that? The Panthers and the working class poor were more interested in day-to-day struggle. Many people on the left didn't identify with WU who were seen as self-important middle class intellectuals with rigid thinking.
Agreed. Those who prescribe to the 'woke agenda' like to think of the movement as a natural progression of progressive politics and thinking. But if this were the case, why are so many people who have identified as 'progressive' distancing themselves and rejecting the narrative?
We should not underestimate the younger generations' ability to think critically and not simply behave like puppets for the leaders of woke.
There's a strong anti-woke movement developing among the young (despite the ravings of their idiot teachers and assorted fools, firebrands and frauds on the left) ) so that's encouraging and may go someway to explaining the dismal turnout.
I saw an interview with a protester girl. She is terrified; convinced she's going to die from climate change. What the hell sort of people do that to children?
If you were keen on accurate history and biology, then mate you have to accept transgender people have been a part of society and will always be a natural state. It has existed since the dawn of human evolution and since the human species did not even exist. It is natural in nature & other species and has long been a part of many cultures prior to the advent of Christianity (which is far more recent and the text shows clear signs of being written by those often uneducated in even simple biological knowledge).
On the scale of things it is curious you also deny the rights for intersex people to exist even though there are many born everyday who have both sexual features. Normally surgical invention is imposed on them as babies against their natural state and before they, (or even their parents) have any right to consent. What gender would you associate to someone who is intersex or would you let them decide as they rightfully have been born with features of both sexes and that their gender at birth is normally imposed by a cultural bias of other people on them (that is if they are lucky to not be born in a country where infanticide for modern cultural bias is more common).
I'm not sure that rolling in so many different 'themes' in the protest (climate change, Palestine/Gaza, Te Tiriti etc) was a recipe for success.
I'd be fairly confident to bet the house on your stereotypical 'Leftie Youth' being more likely to be pro-Palestine, pro-Te Tiriti and so on at the same time as having concern about the climate but the more issues you start amalgamating the narrower the pool of people who are going to get behind it - especially as climate change is probably a subject of broader concern than some of the other issues raised.
Notwithstanding, having so many different aspects to the protest dilutes the messaging. If you have to try and convince people thinking of attending the protest (or even observing/commenting on it) that you can't have 'climate justice' without 'Te Triti justice' or 'justice for Gaza' then you've probably already lost in the sense of having a simple message that cuts through the noise.
I'd be fairly confident to bet the house on your stereotypical 'Leftie Youth' being more likely to be pro-Palestine, pro-Te Tiriti and so on at the same time as having concern about the climate
I have wingnut Gen X-Y friends who are pro-Palestine, pro-Te Tiriti, and believe in the climate crisis.
But simply adopting the issues for performance is not constructive at all.
Why are they the wingnuts? According to your comment further above the wingnuts are the coalition govt. who aren't concerned with those issues.
Once the leftie, right, woke labels are thrown around all credibility of the discussion is lost.
If one is concerned about social injustices, humanitarian and environmental issues are they not just a compassionate human being?
Or are the right generally cold hearted, callous bastards devoid of empathy? Which suggests narcissists, psychopaths, sociopaths or a mixture of all.
Many years ago there was huge demo by thousands of gullible kiwis down Queen St. protesting against a navigation system called Omega. It never became de rigeur because it was overtaken by newer technology.
It was very accurate, and the dupes protesting said it would allow places in NZ to become targets for nuclear weapons.
Now these same chumps have GPS on their phones and in their cars. Kiwis....OMG they're an unsophisticated lot.
They demonstrated against nuclear weapons, so proud of the moronic nuclear-free legislation, but quite happy to visit places like the USA and Europe where there's heaps of nuclear reactors, weapons and ships. There's nuclear weapons stored at Honolulu Airport 6 miles as the crow flies from Waikiki Beach and nuclear subs and ships in Pearl Harbour.......hahaha..kiwis.
I used to spend a lot of time in Honolulu. One day I wandered out to Pearl Harbour and asked the guard at the gate if I could look inside. To my surprise he said yes, but "no photos, and don't ask any questions". So I took a stroll alongside 4 nuclear submarines.
In theory you're more "woke" than most PDK (and I mean that positively). The term has been thoroughly distorted from it's origins of being awake to racial and gender discrimination. I think ideally it refers to someone who is not ignorant of a whole range of issues.
The term has been thoroughly distorted from it's origins of being awake to racial and gender discrimination. I think ideally it refers to someone who is not ignorant of a whole range of issues.
No. It's a societal movement with its own behaviors, attitudes, and hierarchy. You can be non-discriminatory towards race and gender. But that doesn't mean an individual needs to consider themselves 'woke'.
Yeah that's what it's become... as I said the term has been distorted. It started off as just being awake to issues. Now it's become a label everyone is throwing at others and usually in a condescending manner, a different form of attacking the messenger. I don't use the term myself and was just going by the existing dictionary meanings. What part of my comment didn't make sense to you?
Ideally not being ignorant, being able to expand one's perspective, remove thine plank, be change for the better, wake the fuck up are all acceptable descriptors too.
Ideally not being ignorant, being able to expand one's perspective, remove thine plank, be change for the better, wake the fuck up are all acceptable descriptors too.
No. The woke movement steams from political, cultural and intellectual institutions—universities, media, committees, etc. It encompasses cancel culture, identity politics, social justice, critical race theory, postmodern neo-Marxism, Wokeness developed new ideas and built on previous ideas, behaviors and attitudes around race and gender, particularly around how people ought to conduct themselves in their everyday interactions when race and gender were considered (and always to be considered).
Much of it is related to power hierarchies and it's mainly an Anglosphere phenomenon. Chinese have even referred to it as 'white leftism' (baizuo). They see it as hypocritical as wokesters advocate for ideals only to "satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority". They are seen as being "ignorant and arrogant westerners" who "pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours."
I thought the k-road white paint protestors might have been Destiny Church members? It's strange. I would have thought that the Auckland council would like to hear the protestors point of view, and that the white paint be left in place as a sign of respect for the protestor’s opinions. After all, that’s what happened at Te Papa isn’t it? You know, after the treaty mural was defaced.
The protest was an absolute joke - vastly more palestine flags than anything to do with climate change. Except for one old codger that i saw who had a unironic cardboard placard saying "Israel causes climate change".
The average high school student obviously saw through it.
Anti-Zionism has always been a left wing agenda. Why do you think you hear them constantly talk about that conflict?
The civil war in Sudan 1.8m refugees (3 times the entire population of Gaza) or Myanmar 2.4m refugees (4 times the population of Gaza) yet what story will I hear when I turn on the news tonight? A relatively small, localised long running conflict between Israel and Palestinian Terrorists. They'll say something like "The civilians are suffering" when Hamas enjoy about 90% support among Palestinians and actively sought to start the war.
Too small-scoped a comment.
Try reading a bit - start with Gertrude Bell, Lawrence (7 Pillars), the biography of Allenby. Search Sikes/Picot. The Balfour Declaration. This goes back a long way.
The lesson may well be, that those who play rentier, cop the resentment of those who were made to pay the rent. Irrespective of race or empathy.
And that is the echelon we've just put in power....
"Hamas actively sought to start the war." Sorry mate, Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land, has regularly committed atrocities against Palestinian civilians (do a search on what the IDF "mowing the grass" means) and therefore Palestinians have every right under international law to resist that illegal foreign occupation by all means available.
Semitic people were there in biblical times, including the forefathers of today's Palestinians. The diaspora in Israel now includes millions of recent immigrants from Europe, Ukraine, Russia and other lands with zero family or genetic lineage in the Middle East. So sorry mate, you're wrong.
A lot of Russian and Ukrainian migrants to Israel are of Jewish descent, and went to Israel because they were discriminated against in their countries of birth. It's called Aliyah, and Israel has the Law of Return
Actually they are tested to be the closest genetic relatives to people of Palestine. You do realize the many acts of genocide that forced migration in 800 years right. Sure I know you are mostly ignorant about the longer historical records but surely you know about the Muslim history in the area (except you are completely clueless about the advent and formation of Islam, failing to know about most the invasions & colonization, and the entire Ottoman empire), including the violent forced conversions of the colonizers. So sorry mate, you're wrong.
Did you just try and claim that Europeans, Ukranians and Russians who only converted to Judaism in the last two or three centuries are "the closest genetic relatives to people of Palestine"? Actually yhese are people with ZERO historical and ancestral roots to the region because of they are of European and Slavic ancestory. Also I'm interested in why you keep bringing up Islam - I never did. And furthermore, Hamas is not an Islamic organisation and many churches, including the Catholic church, operated openly in Gaza. The IDF has been busy destroying those churches of course.
Except the Jewish people ARE the indigenous culture by more than 2000 years. If anything the ethnic Christians (from the Roman invasion) have more right to Palestine then the much later Muslim invader and colonizer groups. How are the Christian groups in their land treated in Iran and the other ME states they are native to? Do they have freedom to practice their religion without imprisonment and risk of death? Committing genocide, regularly imprisoning people for merely existing as an identity and practising their religion, starting a war with genocidal terrorism and then turning around and claiming the war was not your fault and your denial of aid deliveries to your own people is entirely one sided. Yeah lets all get behind PDK in the eradication of Jews from their historic lands.
No, the Israelites of biblical times have very little in common with the Jewish religion of today. And as I explained elsewhere, the recent European, Ukranian and Russian converts to Judaism who immigrated to form a large part of Israel's population are certainly not indigenous to the region. Outside of the borders drawn up by the UN Security Council 1968 they are in fact illegal foreign occupiers.
three lessons for the adults
1. Kids have short termism - most of them have moved on to some other day time excitement
2. No one is listening - so bugger all chance of any impact
3. Organising the original protest was a good career move and something to add to your CV - maybe not so useful today
Bollocks - but I guess it makes sense if you're starting from a farmer skew.
This is not the first time an organism has altered the chemistry of the planet - there was a time when there wan no oxygen....
But that life-form, was incapable of understanding that it was the cause. Whereas this life-form.... hang on...
Upton Sinclair nailed it. re farmers. The problem is that climate-alteration - man-made via burning 100 million barrels of oil a day and an equiv in coal/gas - is an existential threat. A real one. Societal fads, voting outcomes, religious beliefs, other beliefs; they are nothing in the face of scientific reality.
My betting is that the current crop of young have been brainwashed via their screens, compounded by their wish for meaning in their lives (which excludes raising kids in the suburbs - that option is no longer available). Just like the current crop of farmers cannot help but be skewed, if all they get is the skewed output of the 'newspapers' aimed at them. I read them regularly - how can conscious beings swallow such codswallop?
In short yes, but if you want a more detailed answer take a 3 year course in atmospheric & ocean geo-science & physics then you will grock the atmospheric changes of a island country so close to Antartica we can get the occasional berg floating near, with the pacific ocean & being across multiple tectonic plates.
Extra points if you go onto doctoral study the weather patterns of the Pacific (including El nino and La nina cycles) and Antarctic, say add in some ice cores and go hard. Sorry that was supposed to be 'get hard off' atmospheric research, where https://earth.nullschool.net/ (the display you often see on news weather presentations) is weather porn.
Which is why the students protesting are so sad. None of them are doing the study required in science and engineering to actually design, propose, vote on and enact effective change. In fact their social movements have actually weakened and is decimating science and engineering education even at primary levels. They are worse at basic skills then any generation before them including the generations where we had lead in the air being emitted and lead paint.
Watching one teenager who finishes high school and passed NCEA maths struggle to use a calculator to add two numbers below ten was absolutely tragic. The education in NZ crippled them and their future. It was hard emotionally to try to introduce primary school maths guidance because at all times you had to hide from them the shock and horror you feel that they passed NCEA maths without being able to count to 20 & add numbers even with tech support. Seeing this in multiple teenagers and new teacher training students even is pretty frightening. Where none of them had specialist skills in maths and science. Even the selection of scholarships for STEM teachers exclude those with maths, science and engineering experience. It is pretty sad we created this mess we are in and the next gen is going to face some severe critical loss of education.
Nah, this is all BS, effectively you are saying to trust western academia, western scientific authority and western corporate pushed popular culture that this time, amongst all the other times, they've got it right. However it is easy to see that they don't. How? Because climate change is bringing about record crop harvests, not famine and hunger. Turns out that plants grow better when CO2 levels are not at million year lows. Because sea level rise hasn't changed in a century despite CO2 levels racing right past the "safe" 350ppm mark. And the one I love the most, less than ten thousand years ago global glaciers collapsed causing a 50m to 80m sea level rise. Without a single coal fired plant or oil rig anywhere in sight.
But are they talking about the right things or is it distracting from the aims of the protest, which protest aims were they again? Because outside of zero effective actions to be near no actions presented in the protests most people are talking about things completely outside of the goals.
A givealittle for supporting aid & safe passage would be more effective. Hell even more mental health support for families in NZ now undergoing trauma today would be doing millions more good (to them, the community, the wellbeing and economic effects in NZ) then any person in that protest. Something the protesters actually do more harm against as they act as a distraction from any of the actual effective actions and goals necessary to promote real change. It is like watching people advocate for self harm over support for living needs and essential healthcare. It is like watching them start a bonfire and burn their placards at home while they protested for climate justice & lower pollution. Oh look that is what many of them did. They literally contributed to the greatest waste and pollution while protesting for no effective actions or changes.
All the climate protesters have done is generate more hatred and bigotry against disabled people and deny disabled people equitable rights to coexist in their communities. The protests do more to cut off disabled access to essential living needs and that for able bodied people as well. But eh so long as the rich kids with the most wasteful lifestyles are doing ok eh?
All you need to see where their true loyalties and cares lie is to have a couple of music festivals on the same time the protest is scheduled, say a Taylor Swift concert and an international funk & dubstep festival with multiple artists. Or for that matter just look at the pollution and waste around these music festivals to see how concerned they actually are. The people collecting what is often contaminated with human waste is often the older gen locals. Even the silent gen does more for the environment on a daily basis in their actions and I admire them for it. Because actually living responsibility is very different to talking and protesting for "Climate justice" with no understanding of what that actually entails and what it means to perform key roles in society to produce the homes, infrastructure and tech we all need to live.
School encompasses more than 7 years of your early life and students can be continuously exposed to the same teachers & influences in their schools (more so where combined primary, intermediate and high school structures exist). It is also why those who grew up with Gloriavale education find it so hard to leave even though new information on the outside world can be available at any time. Once a child has been brought up in closed system with strict views they find it hard to promote self education and discord against a popular culture. You almost have to abandon a community and engage in political fights just to go on. Hence most kids and teens do not fight against a zeitgeist or party culture but go with the flow whatever it is no matter the consequences or cost.
Everyone needs to have adequate Stem & critical thinking education, more so in an environment when AI generation, the loss of publishing standards & wide social media is rife. Sadly we have gone so far in the other direction there is no clear guidance. Neither the people at the ministry of education nor the govt have STEM experience either so they are even less suited to make decisions to avert a disintegration of teaching ability (hence the outcry of science teachers against the new syllabus for dropping physics and chemistry). Most new teachers have very little introduction to science & maths, tragically so little it is shameful. We do not reach for the stars anymore in education but rather resort to promoting misinformation and degrading what little we understand about them.
BTW has anyone seen the new Fallout tv series trailer
Maybe those kids felt the coldest March we have had in 12 years breeze thru their air con cars as they got dropped of at their air con classrooms. Chris you forgot to mention the biggest protest NZ ever had. When everyone came together with the farmers howl at the govt.
None of the commenters have picked up on this; CT states :The young man is every centimetre the twenty-first century revolutionary: young, indigenous, and draped in the keffiyeh of martyred Palestine...." and then he quotes him.."The primary tool used against the people is division – divide and conquer. Our response must be to unite. We cannot win with fragmented movements."
Interesting that a young Maori youth is decribing the tactics and strategy of the Maori politicians in NZ to gain power, being divisive and racist to entrench their power. I agree with honouring the treaty especially article three....
As with any kind of success, there will always be those who want to parasitise it for their own ends. In this case I think the kids may have pretty good bullshit detection apparatus for being regarded as rent-a-demo fodder for other, unrelated causes that are trying to feed off the support for the legitimate anger and exasperation at the way the planet is being treated.
Voting with their feet: the essence of democracy. Good on them.
So why is it with their coming of age they are the lowest attending voting age demographic. Especially since the election can now be voted on multiple weeks and not just a weekend why are the students in the previous protests more involved in drinking parties and regularly showing lower attendance in the functions to help maintain social democracy and oh attendance. Well maybe a tiktok post by Taylor Swift could fix that.
Frankly I prefer consensus to enable everyone's living needs rather than just a majority vote in a 2 party system but only democratic change will improve things without making everything permanently much much worse.
Sadly maintaining, building and stabilizing things is always much harder and much more boring. People actively feel less good doing it. Hence there is a greater desire to burn community centers then to build, staff and clean them. Less volunteers exist in the younger generations then the older ones. It is just a function of youth that we are more prone to wanting to break down something then to spend the years of tiny steps building something effective. It also keys into the rebellious, no consequences phase of brain development. How do you counter the inherent desire to break and create drama rather then the boring maintenance work. Well that is a function of education. However I have never seen classes tackle the historic advent of modern sewage systems and the provision of clean drinking water & safer mollusc stock enabled by them. Sadly that bit is cut out of our new education syllabus as well. Along with most of human history, well practically 50000 years of it.
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