By Chris Trotter*
The occupation of Parliament Grounds stands as one of the oddest moments in New Zealand political history.
Not the least of its oddities was the mixture of what might best be described as rapture and rage. There were moments during the occupation when Parliament Grounds recalled the “human be-ins” of the 1960s. Others when it resembled a Mississippi lynch-mob. Day-to-day, the logistical sophistication of the protest organisers rivalled that of the NZDF – a true tour de force of Kiwi can-do. On the other hand, the apocalyptic scenes of the protest’s final day could have been directed by Francis Ford Coppola: it’s “fire and the fury” eclipsing anything seen in New Zealand for a hundred
Although the traumatic events of February-March 2022 are not discussed or debated with any enthusiasm in 2024, it would be most unwise for the present government to dismiss them as just another of its predecessor’s blunders. Without the political energy generated by the Occupation of Parliament Grounds, it is possible that Christopher Luxon, David Seymour, and Winston Peters (especially the latter) might have failed to amass the electoral heft needed to govern. The Occupation was the living expression of the political polarisation occasioned by the measures taken to fight Covid-19 Pandemic. That polarisation has not ceased to exist. Indeed, it could be argued that it has gotten much worse.
The inflexible character of Christopher Luxon’s Coalition Government, his repeated assertion that its collective electoral mandate gives it the right to over-ride any and all objections to its policies, runs the risk of alienating still further an uneasy and politically volatile electorate. Understanding what led to the fire and fury of the first Occupation, may help to prevent New Zealand’s political class from igniting a second.
Perhaps the most startling effect of the original Occupation was how severely it tested the resilience and capability of the New Zealand State and its related institutions. From the moment the occupiers realised the scale of the challenge which their mere presence posed to the authorities, and the effort that would be required to reclaim Parliament Grounds, they began to develop a collective strategic confidence that left the state looking flat-footed and irresolute.
The protesters’ belief in themselves and their cause was hugely bolstered by the idiotic behaviour of Parliament’s Speaker, Trevor Mallard. Up there, on his granite balcony, looking down on the crowd, he bore a more than passing resemblance to Tolkien’s treacherous wizard, Saruman, as he surveyed the damage done to his mighty stronghold, Orthanc, by an angry army of Ents. Alas for Mallard, his spells: turning on the sprinklers; playing Barry Manilow at full volume; proved as inadequate as Saruman’s. There were plumbers and drain-layers in the crowd who made short work of the Speaker’s sprinklers, and the Occupiers had a sound system of their own.
The most serious consequence of Mallard’s actions, however, was to reinforce the occupiers’ determination to go on saying “No.” Their blank refusal to be “moved-on”, placed the Police in a quandary they had not faced for years: determining the level of force required to compel the compliance of resisting protesters, without turning too much of the population against them. What is required, policing-wise, when a large number of citizens simply withdraw their cooperation from the state’s law enforcers? The answer came back forcefully when the Wellington Police Commander sent constables in their shirt-sleeves to clear the grounds: helmets, armour, shields, batons, pepper-spray, and lots more personnel!
It was only after the fires of the final day had been extinguished and the smoke had cleared, that New Zealanders discovered how terrified the Police and Parliamentary Security had been that the occupiers would attempt to storm Parliament itself. A sudden rush up the steps, the swinging of heavy battering rams, and there would have been very little to stop the crowd except the firepower of the Diplomatic Protection Squad which, if deployed, would only have made the situation worse.
But, the occupiers were not of a mind to turn their protest into a revolution. They had come to Parliament for a redress of grievances – most particularly the abandonment of their bête noir – the vaccination mandates. In spite of all the frightening rhetoric about Nuremburg Trials, and the gallows nooses carried aloft, the occupiers had come to “our house” not to hang the Government, but to make it to listen them. They had come to be heard.
That the Government and, more astonishingly, the Opposition, would not listen, or talk, to the Occupiers requires careful explanation. Nothing communicated the politicians’ contempt for the people who elected them, more forcefully than Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s ban on any kind of communication with the occupiers. But, that ban, obeyed by all the members of the House, demonstrated something much more significant than contempt – it demonstrated fear.
What would have happened if the Prime Minister, flanked by her DPS bodyguards, senior ministers, and several dozen police officers, had come down the steps and invited the occupiers to parley? Would they have hurled abuse? Something more solid? Or would they have moved up to the barricades and begun to talk?
One of the reasons that never happened was because the News Media, which could have humanised the protesters and turned them into something more than scary caricatures, had, from the very beginning, declined to do so.
Partly, this was a manifestation of the media’s determination not to give an inch to those who challenged the Government’s handling of the Covid-19 Pandemic. In the eyes of many journalists (including the author of this post) those who refused the Pfizer Vaccine were – by the most generous estimation – dangerously misguided, and not to be indulged. Cast in the least favourable light, they were enemies of “The Team of Five Million”: spreaders of disinformation; weavers of absurd conspiracy theories; deserving of nothing but the unrelenting scorn of all intelligent people.
But, there’s no getting round the fact that the journalists were also petrified of the Occupiers. They were not the sort of people they were used to dealing with. Most of them came across as unaccountably ignorant and/or irrational. Even worse, the Occupiers made no secret of the fact that they hated the journalists of the “mainstream” news media with a passion that the latter found genuinely terrifying. To make matters even worse, the Occupiers had their own media: “citizen journalists” who returned the mainstream reporters’ disdain measure-for-measure.
Christopher Luxon and his colleagues would be wise to factor into their political calculations both the electorate’s increasing polarisation, and its declining faith in the mainstream news media. If his Finance Minister, Nicola Willis, is determined to unleash the sort of austerity programme that, in the early-1990s, under Ruth Richardson, gave New Zealand MMP; and in the UK, thanks to George Osborne’s spending cuts from 2010-2015, Brexit; then she should make herself aware of just how many New Zealanders get their political information from sources quite distinct from the Six O’clock News.
The occupation of Parliament Grounds happened because a significant number of New Zealanders allowed themselves to be convinced that their government was out to ruin their lives. If the Coalition Government wishes to avoid another uprising of the “deplorables”, it should consider what these folk might be prepared to attempt if their “research” confirms that their government is doing it again – except this time to a whole lot more New Zealanders.
If Jacinda Ardern’s government struggled to contain 3,000 angry Kiwis in 2022, how will Christopher Luxon’s cope with 300,000 in 2025?
*Chris Trotter has been writing and commenting professionally about New Zealand politics for more than 30 years. He writes a weekly column for interest.co.nz. His work may also be found at http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com.
102 Comments
Putting aside most of CT's postulations on what might have happened, he alludes to, but really does not mention, a bigger underlying issue that he identified in an earlier article. In that article he published a picture of Mike Moore, David Lange, Roger Douglas and another where he indicated that Mike Moore was essentially telling the then Labour leadership who they couldn't afford to piss off - big money. I found this ironic that the party which claimed to represent the working classes, the majority of the people in this country, were allowing themselves to be hamstrung by those they supposedly viewed as "the enemy". More than this though is the implication that politics, and law making, has been essentially captured by a "conventional" form of politics which worships at altars owned by big banks and multinational corporations. This tends to suggest that for all their claims to being smart they have little or no understanding of societies and their need for governance and how that should happen, or the true role of government in representing the people.
Luxon, Seymour and Peters all seem to be just a continuation of that ideology.
Should never have happened. The government had plenty of warning. Canada for example. Approaches to parliament should have been closed off. That would have stopped vehicles, and equipment being carried in. Government was as always lax about doing anything until after it happened & reaped the requisite result. All of those precautions and measures were though in place for the Tamaki lots subsequent attempt about which of course they cried police brutality.
You are missing the point. The 3,000 number was a head count of people who turned up (although still not 100% accurate) and yes they would be the physical representation of a far greater number of people who didn't turn up but agreed with them.
But saying 300,000 people will turn up on the steps of Parliament,
Really? I see no evidence real or imagined to justify that number.
I think you've missed CT's point Dale. He suggests tongue in cheek I would suggest to 100 time more people will be move to protest if NACTNZF just continue to deliver more of the same with just a different brush colour.
What he is really saying is there need to be a significant change from the current political ideologies. No one is offering that.
Possibly because there's not many realistic alternatives, given the rather large amount of integration we have into the global trade system.
Most likely what should happen is a significant wealth tax, to circumvent the impoverishing of the many, to the few who are taking the excess funds they generate and acquiring assets.
while I understand your perspective I suggest there are some fundamental changes that can make a significant difference. They could deficit fund projects that build economic capacity such as roading infrastructure, education, health and so on. The basis of taxation can change to support creation of jobs. Banks can be more rigorously regulated (take a look at pre 1980s regulation). This government as all others do, still argues that they have to tax to spend. That is rubbish. They need to tax to control the amount of money in circulation, and manage behaviour. Those are entirely different concepts which should result in different tax structures.
the problem is that the politicians and I'd bet all the advice they get, is too wedded to old outdated concepts designed to protect the status quo.
The government does not need any more tax. What they need to do is become much more efficient and spending our tax dollars.
The previous government increased the tax take and spending massively. Their achievements were close to zero. Many aspects of the public service are in complete disarray and are not providing services equivalent to what they were with almost half the funding. That's an absolute disgrace. Everyone knows it, some boneheads still argue the case that they did a good job, but it is just not the case and the more time goes on the clearer it is to everyone.
The government needs less tax, and less people, and they need to give more back to the taxpayers that the last government needlessly took it away from. Then they need to deliver tax relief in general as they have a huge surplus of excess money that is being collected and wasted. Sure there is going to be pain when all the public servants get canned, but that was always on the cards because of the massive over hiring. As a very simple example, if you had one gardener (if you could afford one in the first place), and then you hired another two that did nothing and were not required, how could you justify paying them forever when you run out of money. You can't, and that is what is happening now. The fat is being cut out of the system. That is sad, but it should never have been there.
Once the above is done, then we need to work out whether more taxation is required. It's likely that it is, as debt repayments will have to be made. So, the places we should be looking at are:
i) Cancelling the tax free status of all the Maori tribes. They not are charities, and the should not be exempt. They need to pay their way and start supporting their own people, or start paying tax.
ii) Companies like Sanitarium and other similar to them that are also not charities.
iii) Proceeds of crime.
iv) Tax avoidance (there is masses of tax avoidance).
The above four are the low hanging fruit. The government needs to hit these first, and then if there is any further requirement for taxation after all this is done, then that will be the time for that conversation.
Well if it's one thing the coalition can't be accused of, and that is just continuing to deliver more of the same.
Isn't that his whole point, their dictate for change, and the 'division it might cause with some, but enough to get 300,000 people at parliament?
It doesn't seem like a 'tongue in cheek' article.
Funny that was around the same estimate of the Freedumb protests and when they got 100x less people they tried to make it a positive but it was very disingenuous and foolish. It was equally as funny when they pissed off 1000x more people then would ever join them. The terrible foul sewage leaking vandal behaviour just really turned most the country against them. Which is why when the protest was forcibly removed from the site most of Wellington was glad for it and there was no massive protest to follow that. Just a trickling down of the squatters to areas that even had counter protests to stop them entering.
Sadly that "protest" has in many ways set the scene for the devaluing of other protests and encouraged a deterioration in protest behavior towards actions that piss off most the people they need support from rather then encourage support. Look at the attitudes against the rail protestors the next time they stage a stunt. Or the dog whistle of accepted racism that followed the museum vandalism "protest".
Also of note: If you have white supremacists and neo nazis in your protest circle, integrated in and interacting with the others, it is a white supremacist protest no matter who the other participants are.
If you have white supremacists and neo nazis in your protest circle, integrated in and interacting with the others, it is a white supremacist protest no matter who the other participants are.
I guess one day if one of your friends gets arrested for something insidious you would expect the community to brand you also? Perhaps if there was an undercover policeman or woman at the protest then it was really a police protest? Strawman assertion there sorry. It is very difficult to understand the peoples behaviours unless you were there or following some of the live streams coming out of there at the time, as the MSM only latched on to the odd bit of negativity as trying to brand all participants as vandals.
They were worried about bad actors at the covid lockdown era BLM protest - but that must be impossible at a Human Rights protest. The BLM public health covid contortions over the BLM protest were amusing. What is ok for one protest is not ok for another.
"Please work with us today and above all, let kindness and respect prevail."
Williams reiterated the protests were peaceful, and not to be hijacked by anyone planning to riot or be violent."
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/new-zealand-protests-kiwis-j…
This country is going down the gurgler quickly yet I don’t see it likely that hundreds of thousands of people mobilising in socialist anger. Didn’t hapoen mid 80s / early 90s did it?
the protests are typically minority, ‘loony’ interests or environmental.
The economically drpressed either turn to crime, drugs or antidepressants
As much I as I'm not much of a fan of Russell he is absolutely right. We are pig headed morons, with the opportunity of hosting an international event that brings millions to the economy (in this case Christchurch), we let the likes of DOC and some unknown Iwi pull the pin on it for us. How ridiculous is it that they spend all this time and money here and then they are not even allowed to practice before the event. We collectively shoot ourselves in the foot and then call him a brat. He actually likes sailing and bringing it to the world, and his home country. He clearly doesn't care for our collective stupidity and so he has called us out, quite convincingly too. I notice no one as called him racist for calling out the Maoris and no one has called him a climate denier or an eco-terrorist for harassing DOC, and that's because the guy does not suffer fools easily, and that is what we are, so anything we say now is falling on deaf ears anyway.
Not the smartest call having turned down Auckland ..poor Russ..nice deflection on ZB however were he could barely read is spin doctors statement. I wonder if he uses Nationals spin doctors...blame the minority's for everything?
SailGP has chosen to hold its event in a marine mammal sanctuary that was established for the protection of Hector’s dolphins. This decision to hold the event there was made in the full knowledge that protection of the dolphins from the impact of boats will be paramount.
Russell new the risk. They chose a marine sancturary to run the event at a time when animals there are calfing. I'm no event planner but that doesnt sound like the smartest idea. I would go so far as he picked a location where problems would happen to give him a reason not to host the event in NZ any more so he can take it to a more commercially lucrative market.
Russell mentions that it pumped 5m into the economy. If thats it, then why are we even discussing it. Thats not even a drop in the bucket.
Do these events actually bring in millions of dollars? I thought that was up for debate. I recall reading that most of the benefits of some of our bigger sporting events were related to raising our profile on the global stage rather than direct revenue from the event itself. You know the sort of thing Jacinda did an excellent job of without incurring millions of taxpayer/ratepayer money.
I don't think such sensible comments are allowed on here. Obviously yes, it does bring in millions, the organizers actually spend that here, and they did. The teams also spend here. Deals are made here. Sailing is a premium sport, associated with lots of money. New Zealanders are some of the best sailors and boat builders in the world. Those boats are the exact boats that New Zealand won the America's cup on. We invented this technology. Do we support it.....of course not. We let minorities destroy it and then we start complaining about why we don't have high paying jobs in this country.....and complain that grannies house is worth too much and somehow we should tax her.
NZ is far from Green. That's a myth.
Is your standard of living higher when the environment has collapsed?
Try and find some flattish areas of significant size in the Nth Inland that remains in it's native or natural sate?
You won't. If we can farm it, it's under the axe.
Time we stopped and made do with what we have.
Look at Key floundering 12 years ago! What a baffooon Key was.
We are a little bit green, but not what it says on the packet. All we do here is greenwashing, and that includes Labour and the actual Greens (they are supposed to know stuff but the truth is becoming more and more clear). We can do what we like, but if we fake being green, and then reject high earning prospects as well we are idiots. Anyone that complains is welcome to share the zero dollars we will gain in a highly equitable way and then complain they are still poor.
It would require a similar level of protest as the 1981 Springboks tour, where reportedly 150k protested throughout the country. On a per capita basis that's similar to 300k today.
But I don't see it happening, I feel that we're a bit too apathetic now, and can't see the foreign influence helping stir things up like it did for the anti-vaccine protests
As unemployment grows and mortgagee sales increase, their numbers will swell, probably quite quickly as friends and relatives, and the outraged, join in.
The NACTF's 'tax cuts' so clearly benefit the already wealthy that they've made themselves a clear target that many sections of society can align against.
I'm reminded of the old saying, "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." (Attributed to Alan Moore of V for Vendetta fame but said by every wise ruler since time immemorial.) Thus, when governments choose to place the wants of the top 10% above the needs of the bottom 90% they should be fearful.
Times have changed and the protests may take the form of sabotaging the system by overloading and not supporting unacceptable changes whilst lauding the removal of wastful spending and the non productive bureacrats, I suspect six years of socialst hell have demotivated many who will simply coast on doing just enough to survive when Govt need motivated flexible innovation, still possible but early signs are only mildly encouraging.
I was well aware of the history. Te Urewera National park had been around for a while before the Treaty settlement for the tribe that didn't sign the treaty.
Their are hints of a reappraisal of what a pro-vax majority and government got wrong, in this article, but CT cant quite bring himself to say it explicitly.
The most concerning are the willingness of a government to override basic freedoms to further their agenda, its unwillingness to listen to a range of viewpoints, including those they disagree with, and a media mistaking their role to be leftist social activists.
I was pro vax and mandate but the handing of protests demonstrated to me we had a government that was more seriously off track in eroding democratic norms in pursuit of power than any since Muldoon.
" dangerously misguided, and not to be indulged. Cast in the least favourable light, they were enemies of “The Team of Five Million”: spreaders of disinformation; weavers of absurd conspiracy theories; deserving of nothing but the unrelenting scorn of all intelligent people..."
And yet all the vaxed have caught Covid ... multiple times. Despite the magic panacea.
And gee, doesnt there seem to be a lot of people you hear of who have heart issues , strokes, cancers lately ... hmmmm. What is up...
Your honour, I present exhibit one, agenda of 109th meeting Medicines advisory committee, FEBRUARY 2021 ...
" 4.1Comirnaty (COVID-19 mRNA vaccine), 0.5 mg/mL (TT50-10853)Pfizer New Zealand Limited
The product is a high risk prescription medicine proposed for prevention of COVID-19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 in adults and adolescents from 16 years of age and older.
Comirnaty is a new vaccine employing a novel technology (mRNA) ....
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/committees/maac/Agenda108-13Nov2019.htm
Im sure you were well advised about the high risk bit ...
Yes , I got Vaxed and caught covid. I caught it off some (ex) customers who thought God would protect them from it if they prayed hard enough.
But I and many others didnt get seriously ill or die.
Around the same time , i was also working on a solar system for a health van for an Iwi health organisation. They were preparing to be visiting entire communities full of vulnerable people, many of whom could be expected to die if they got Covid. The threat was very real , which most forget in hindsight.
"But I and many others didnt get seriously ill or die...."
I know many unvaxed. I am not aware of any who would class it worse than a bad flu. Our family barely noticed it.
Conversely I sadly know of multiple cases ... relatives, work colleagues and parents of friends all vaxed up etc who have serious issues over the last 2 years including fatal strokes and aggressive cancers. Coincidence? Maybe. But despite the rhetoric about scientific discipline, its not something that will ever be looked at or discussed.
I would reword this statement... "The threat was very real , which most forget in hindsight. "
The promoted FEAR was very real.
The promoted panacea was not.
There never was scientific discipline and Trotter's "unaccountably ignorant" knew it.
"According to Stabell Benn, the underlying problem with documenting adverse events is that the covid-19 vaccines “were not tested properly.” She says, “The phase 3 trials offered vaccines to the control groups just a few months after the randomisation, so it doesn’t allow for assessment of the long term adverse events—but it’s the best evidence we have so far, since no phase 4 trials were carried out. Now, we largely have to rely on poorer quality data and studies.”
FDA urged to publish follow-up studies on covid-19 vaccine safety signals
https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2527
Whereas I knew some who were hospitalised for many days, coming from the same perspective, and said "I'm happy to admit when I was wrong".
These both being anecdotes, of course, and not disproving aggregate data not results experienced across the world, especially by oldies.
Maybe so.
So your vaccine couldnt stop you catching it. No surprise - it was never tested on its ability to prevent transmission.
And if It prevented you getting seriously ill , what difference does it make whether they had had a vaccine?
The "they are clogging the hospitals" rubbish doesnt appear to be quite bearing out ....
Yes I agree
I have no problem if people want to take a novel vaccine for themselves if they believe they are at highly at risk and it may help
But to effectively force youth and a great part of the healthy population to roll the dice or be marginalised is unforgivable
Meanwhile....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/23/doctors-warn-abdominal-canc…
.." doctors warn of mysterious cancer ‘epidemic’
The disease is affecting fit, younger people more often – and researchers do not yet understand why..."
Cancer has been on the rise for years but it will be interesting if there is a sudden spike. Basically that vax stuffs with your immune system so I would expect a rise in all sorts of diseases. Nobody is ever going to fess up to the fact it could end up killing more people than it saved.
"However, emerging evidence suggests that the reported increase in IgG4 levels detected after repeated vaccination with the mRNA vaccines may not be a protective mechanism; rather, it constitutes an immune tolerance mechanism to the spike protein that could promote unopposed SARS-CoV2 infection and replication by suppressing natural antiviral responses. Increased IgG4 synthesis due to repeated mRNA vaccination with high antigen concentrations may also cause autoimmune diseases, and promote cancer growth and autoimmune myocarditis in susceptible individuals.
...Finally, these negative outcomes are not expected to affect all people who have received these mRNA vaccines. Individuals with genetic susceptibility, immune deficiencies, and comorbidities are probably the most likely to be affected. However, this gives rise to a disturbing paradox—if people who are the most affected by the COVID-19 disease (the elderly, diabetics, hypertensive, and immunocompromised people like those with HIV) are also more susceptible to suffering the negative effects of repeated mRNA vaccination, is it then justified to booster them? As Omicron subvariants have been demonstrated to be less pathogenic [133,134,135,136,137], and mRNA vaccines do not protect against re-infection [14,138], clinicians should be aware of the possible detrimental effects on the immune system by administering boosters."
IgG4 Antibodies Induced by Repeated Vaccination May Generate Immune Tolerance to the SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/11/5/991
Congrats on identifying as someone lacking the education to read and understand medical related articles. It is always refreshing to see those who willingly out themselves to others. I have such faith that eventually you may stumble on a 101 educational text to understand your epic fail posting. It does make me laugh, a lot. Really I especially laughed at the sources. This is why much of the public is really ignorant about science & medical articles (and how AI is going to really f them up when many "authors" have been using it to quick create junk). It is a tragic outcome of the pay to publish models and the devaluation of review.
But if you like articles so much don't forget the one proving rats have foot long genitals and stem cells bigger then their heads (it actually had more peer review then your links). https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/fcell-11-1339390… Protip both have as much veracity. Heck I can publish 50 medical articles in any direction for anything if I want to blow a couple grand. Your post was literally that bad. God where to start with the education gaps you showed... its almost too many; I don't have enough coffee in the house for.
Come back when you understand even a modicum of what you are reading; articles in and of themselves are not valid proof. You really need to understand why before you think of them as truth or proof of anything.
Now here is one of my favourites with graphs and everything https://www.scs.stanford.edu/~dm/home/papers/remove.pdf accepted completely into a peer review journal and I cannot argue with its conclusions.
I thought you were more about complaining about a lack of wheelchair ramps or something. The reality is that this vaccine is almost certainly going to cause all sorts of problems. It was untested in the traditional sense, and when that has happened in the past (as well as treatments that have been extensively tested). So, it is more than likely to happen here too. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's a statement of fact. This has happened in the past, and will more than likely happen again now. I have seen a number of articles pointing to an uptick in cancers and other explained stuff. I have no idea whether they are true, or just the start of the research. But it is very likely due to the rushed nature of this, that it will cause a bunch of serious problems down the track. So, please don't be so uptight, just sit in your wheelchair and relax.
Wow talk about clueless and lacking simple mathematics education in even proportional comparisons. I suspect you are sniffing too much of the vapour because you even think 1. all disabled people must have wheelchairs and 2. that all those advocating for basic equitable access to homes must use wheelchairs and be classed as disabled. It is like basic logic and mathematics passed you by long ago. I just love how you use a conspiracy theory argument to back reasoning. You just copied and pasted the aliens out and put the covid vaccination in. Beautiful.
Here is your template meme:
https://imgflip.com/i/8kee1f (act quick you only have access to it for an hour)
What is really sad is that ALL long term medical trials can take as much time as the covid vaccination if they had even a hundreth of the funding. One of your very many failures was not following the over a decade of medical trials in the tech, but also a failure in understanding of how when you fund medical trials they tend to get done. Unlike the years petitioning, waiting, searching for investors, waiting, seeking managerial approval, waiting and waiting and waiting.
All we need to ramp up trials for your treatment of choice for a clear and present risk to most bank and government managers. So for a cancer med to get approved in NZ fast just ensure all the government MPs, bank managers, and medical boards have a high likelihood of getting that cancer in the very near future and a risk of death from it. They will be throwing money at it as fast as they do for viagra in NZ. Sadly this is the case for all medical research. It is not the value or the number of lives it would save but the quality of the people affected, read as wealth, influence, gender and racial & genetic groups (why a drug that near prevents SMA degeneration and save children's lives is approved in Australia but still stuck in NZ regulatory hell as a bank manager literally got MD to then stimulate huge medical funding drives).
Much of the research & testing is stalled in some layer of purgatory until someone rich gets the condition (or learns to care with a shred of empathy) and then a little funding gets tossed its way until it is stalled at the next stage and stuck waiting again.
"High IgG4 antibody levels generated in response to repeated inoculation with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines could be associated with a higher mortality rate from unrelated diseases and infections by suppressing the immune system. Since most COVID-19 vaccinated countries are reporting high percentages of excess mortality not directly attributable to deaths from such disease, the NSEs of mRNA vaccines on overall mortality should be studied in depth. "
Yeah unless you were in a completely separated/sealed off environment and then only interacted with one person, how on earth would you know who from whom you caught Covid ? It's not like it leaves you a little referral card or something like that. It's as absurd as me trying to play detective and work out which grubby little kid in my toddler's preschool class gave my household a terrible stomach bug a few weeks ago. In fact maybe it wasn't the pre school kids at all?
Interacting with others in any setting risks you getting sick. Don't want to get sick? Don't go out in public, or run a business that interacts with members of the public or anything like that (obviously you are welcome to take sensible precautions such as hand-washing, mask wearing or getting vaccinated, and it is silly not to take precautions where they are possible). No law against staying inside like a total recluse if you're terrified of getting sick.
What I'm more interested to understand in all of this is to what extent - if at all - was the 'relaxing' of Covid rules linked to the protest movement and the violence it descended into. I had a couple of family members work policing the protest (one in a more managerial/senior capacity) and he said to me it was very touch and go as to the ability to actually control it as resourcing was stretched so thin. Only a small number of additional protestors willing smash things up, or more prominent use of weapons, and it wouldn't have been controllable was their take on the matter. NB I don't support the violent aspects, it was really scary knowing a close family member was having rocks etc thrown at them and being spat on and abused.
Virus tracing is well known as the DNA can be tested and compared with others (tech has been around for decades and generations). As a virus passes from person to person it retains much of the same DNA with only very minor mutation changes. We can test parent child relationships in humans that have 2 people to replicate, (along with de novo mutations) and we can trace viruses which just need one to replicate. Which means it can be tested whether you caught a virus from a colleague or a client very easily. In NZ these studies are limited because NZ is a backwater with most the population ignorant in most genetic science research.
https://theconversation.com/genetic-detectives-how-scientists-use-dna-t…
https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-021-00074-x
20 years ago it was used in criminal cases as well were people were being intentionally infected with HIV by malicious murderers. It was just another thing that could be used to detect where and who the disease originated from to identify the source and then how the infected material was collected and then passed into the new host.
Yeah NZ does not have much funding for genetic testing research of transmission it would need to be self funded. As I said NZ is a backwater and we don't focus on the highly profitable and highly productive fields of medical technology, research and pharmaceuticals. We leave that to countries with a growing medical workforce per population. We do have a growing number of astrological cultural healers, beauty therapists and naturopaths. But they do not need certification, they do not, by and large, need any professional training and observation reviews to sell services, and unsurprisingly they do not trend towards medical, genetic & lab testing knowledge. Our medical investment market for most of the public is in placebos stuff, for our large scale actual medical companies most their business is funding and market overseas.
This is now presents as a serious issue as it influences our next gen of medical professionals. We start training by sourcing them at the time they have general population knowledge where the bias sets in early prior to practical experience. Or we import from countries with higher medical professionals per population but we do not correctly ensure oversight and proficiency numbers to allow for passing knowledge on. Other countries often do virus tracing even to the degree of outbreaks in a hospital, school, businesses, restaurants, including to identify if the number, quality and orientation of the ventilation devices affected transmission (it does). But they have significant medical knowledge inc those funding medical initiatives at government levels. NZ does not.
Sadly the virus mutation rate in populations without herd immunity is high so it becomes a task of wack a mole that makes it difficult to eliminate. Unlike diseases like small pox, polio etc where the testing on vaccination was the lowest but enough % had it over time to fully eliminate the virus from the population significantly. Only by reintroducing the virus into a population without herd immunity do we run the risk of massive reintroduction and outbreaks (see measles, german measles, mumps, covid viruses etc). One of the main outbreaks of measles recently was reintroduced into NZ by a hippie psychologist from the East Coast attending multiple overseas and NZ conferences where it spread like wildfire, especially as they visited populations with low vaccination rates and were not vaccinated themselves (although for them it was accidental because they did not know their parents failed to vaccinate them until after they caught the virus and spread it for weeks). They did not have adequate general knowledge around viruses to know adequate isolation procedures and continued their travel into and around the community & conferences. From NZ the virus traveled to Samoa, killed more children. In retrospect NZ needs all the population to be aware of virus isolation procedures and herd immunity. We are really bad at this and medical science education in general.
Unfortunately I missed out on chicken pox vaccination so will forever be at risk of significant nerve damage, blindness, and hearing loss. My first shingles outbreak occurred in my 30s and for years the pain and eye nerve damage remained; I did almost lose vision. In comparison I wish I had the chickenpox vaccination years earlier as a toddler as the lifelong risk of shingles is pretty bad and you cannot escape it because you now carry the virus inside you, able to come out at any time. It is the same for other HPV viruses that cause cancers.
As in many things in science we can disprove anti vaxxer conspiracies, we cannot prove them.
It is not on the media to publish even more wild conspiracy theories, after all that would be a breach of the most basic journalist ethics.
But sure you are welcome to make up more of your own and share others. It does not make it right that a conspiracy theory exists. Anti vaxxers conspiracies have as much evidence as the lizard people and satanic left ones. It makes for good comedy in science circles, but also a chilling mark on how poor our reading, comprehension, mathematics and science education has gone down the toilet. Next time you are in these protests it is always good to do health checks on the people there. As many will be needing MHS support that is also lacking. For many if they had adequate social health and education support they would not be there in the first place (as with many conspiracy theorists).
Also of note: If you have white supremacists and neo nazis in your protest circle, integrated in and interacting with the others, it is a white supremacist protest no matter who the other participants are.
The protestors were not represented by the media as nobody would give them any airtime, much like the government, and the swell of people there were frequently understated to be far less than was truly the case. Many there were not simply there for a theoretical hatred of the then prime minister, albeit for some without doubt, but were against the overstep and excessive use of government powers into citizens personal freedoms, of which have been later proven to be unlawful with 0 accountability had to date.
"The protestors were not represented by the media as nobody would give them any airtime ... "
Not true.
I watched for a few hours as media tried to interview people about why they were there. Very, very few people interviewed could provide coherent answers and when they tried other protesters butted in with their crackpot slogans, threats and misinformation. Further, when the media producers tried to interview the 'leaders' in a more controlled (and safer!) environment they refused to go on camera. Why do you think that was? Because media were not to be trusted? Or because going on record would document their foolishness for all time?
The reason media gave them hardly ant airtime is that the rabble had no coherent message that withstood even a high schooler's scrutiny.
Yeah the protestors really did show how ignorant and bat sht crazy they were on live video footage in MSM all the time. It was like watching people who were all drunk and high on mushrooms trying to work through severe education failures with toxic blood poisoning. If anything they had too much airtime as the crazy got boring and like a broken record did not lean into any self awareness. Going so far as to blame police for the fires videos showed those shame protestors setting moments before. It became sad predictable idiocy. But it did help identify who they were to colleagues, friends and family for avoidance practices (and it was easier to avoid them when they went to protest). If you were unsure how unstable and high risk someone was you could just quiz there opinions on the occupation. I knew several people they killed with their idiocy including a fellow employee. So no hiring of high risk morons after that. In case you wondered no being a high risk idiot is not a protected category social group. It is completely ok to discriminate against unsafe individuals who will risk staff & patients health and fail to uphold the minimum ethics of the roles.
Incredible level of ignorance - you were clearly not there
The media - who did most of their "interviewing" from the parliamentary balcony - chose to present any edit that suited the 1pm truth sermon
They ignored multiple talks by affected doctors / nurses / tradespeople / business people / students / youth / NZers!!! who had lost liveihoods and had been sidelined by society ... in their own country ... by dismal science and a mandate which is fast looking unlawful
They were not interested in any balance ... all while the politicians cowered away flatly refusing to acknowledge their own citizens
Actually we have video footage from all points and multiple different protest groups in the occupation. You can clearly see the angles and the roads associated. But I guess you think no one in NZ has knowledge of maps, video footage or knowledge of how to identify common object points. It was pretty well documented even by the protestors themselves handing footage material also to msm orgs.
So even if you were not there every single day (way to out yourself as a part) you could get live video footage of the event from many sources including those shared on MSM.
Next time if you want to prevent sharing video information so you cannot be disproved by it later it would be better to have copyright on it and a litigious legal company.
Boomtown - you are 100% correct! Thank you for articulating your thoughts.
As much as I admire Pacifica’s contribution - my current role is as a Lecturer in a University in Australia in allied health, so do believe his perspectives have critical merit - the tone of thinly veiled scorn directed as countrymen who express alternative ideas is telling!
The lack of balance from the previous government, perpetuating by opinionated, biased journalists, contributed significantly to the breakdown of NZ society.
And let us not kid ourselves - NZ has never been a more divided society, certainly not in my lifetime (and I’m pushing 50, so no spring chicken!).
For as long as presumably educated and knowledgeable people consciously and intellectually attempt to belittle those who express alternative views, social cohesion will continue to suffer.
I do hope for the return of some modicum of academic civility with the NZ ecosystem.
My heart goes out to everyone whose life was negatively impacted by Covid-19, either in contracting the virus, having an adverse reaction to vaccination and whose livelihood was negatively impacted by lockdowns and restrictions. Hence the importance of an impartial investigation and detailed evaluation. Until this happens the sore will fester.
appreciate the general thought behind the comment ... However I'm slightly concerned someone in your position would classify
- the right to refuse medical treatment OR
- the hippocratic oath - first do no harm - OR
- the banning of off-label medicines to treat covid
as "alternative" ideas
The silencing of medical opinion was one of the more troubling aspects of this debacle
FEAR. I had seen what Dan Andrews did in Melbourne (dawn raids to arrest a pregnant woman for posting on Facebook, police violently assaulting protestors), and what Justin Trudeau did in Canada (seizing the bank accounts of protestors and everyone who had donated to them), and I had no doubt that Jacinda Ardern would pull on her jackboots and do the exact same thing here.
Only those who truly had nothing, or had nothing left to lose had the ability to go protest. The rest of us had to try to preserve what we had left of our lives and didnt want to be beaten, arrested, and financially bankrupted by the Govt. We were selfish cowards. And that's our shame. But next time I will be braver, and I hope everyone else will be too.
The problem for the team of 300,000 is that they are not really one team
Lots of issues - climate change, big oil, treaty rights, Palestine, free school lunches, smoking rights, freedom of speech, SNA's, housing etc. etc. - while there is a lot of overlap its not necessarily a cohesive group unlike say the anti apartheid HALT protests
Yes, you are right. They are all fringe groups with their own perspective (which is generally wrong anyway), but most importantly they all want to be in charge, and they don't really get on. Really they are all hopeless (with a few exceptions), but they all fight against each other. There is nothing that unifies them really, except they either want other peoples assets or they want to tell you what to do.
Pretty much why the Greens didn't court them. They've learnt in the past that people on single issue crusades are unreliable and likely to splinter. Hence the anti 1080, and more radical gmo opponents are not catered for.
Winston got some votes by showing up and been obtuse ( probably hypocritical), but I wouldn't be surprised if it cost him as many voters as it gained.
It does not belong on a financial site; it barely belongs on a crazy blog or twitter. There is even less reasoning, logic and evidence then ancient alien & abduction conspiracy sites (and the ancient aliens folks could also be self aware enough to take a joke meme about the lack of material backing them even then).
"What are your rebelling against?"
"What have ya got?"
From the old movie: The Wild One.
I think CT is vague because there are as many views as protesters - I think the unifying impulse is to be censorious of others.
New Zealand appears to have a large group of people across the political spectrum, that I can only think of the censorious class, whose internal makeup makes them want to give others a hard time - but they are too anxious about other's perceptions of them to just be dicks.
That censorious class use assorted causes to allow them to behave unpleasantly and still feel good about themselves, while offering little other than uncoordinated magical thinking as an alternative to what they don't like. It does say something about our national psychopathology that bears scrutiny, as it is corrosive.
The older generations that might be more "right wing" (although that label doesn't really mean much any more) typically don't get out and march because they are resigned to reality and just put up with stuff - but they do vote. And do want to cede democratic process to stampeding neurotic politicians with protests?
We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.
Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.