Labour launches campaign with promise of free dental care

Public Policy / news

Labour launches campaign with promise of free dental care, as Freedoms NZ protests outside

2nd Sep 23, 2:00pm by Dan Brunskill

The Labour Party officially launched its Election 2023 campaign in Auckland Saturday, with a big new promise: free dental care for people under 30.

Currently many services are free for those under 18, but many young adults don’t seek any further treatment until they have finished university and have established careers.

Labour hopes to tackle this problem by offering free annual check-ups, dental cleans, basic fillings and extractions for people in their twenties.

The policy, if implemented, would initially cover those aged 18–23 in 2025 and be expanded to 29-year-olds from 2026.

Labour has priced the policy at $390 million across the four years following 2024. The party would also increase the number of dentists in training. It would cost $160m in 2027.

A policy document said more than 1.5 million adults, or 37%, were estimated to have an unmet need for dental care due to cost — with higher rates for Māori and Pasifika.

The campaign launch at the Aotea Centre was picketed by a group of protestors from Freedoms NZ, who partly blocked the stairs leading into the building.

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark had a police escort lead her into the building, but most MPs did not.

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143 Comments

by Officebound | 2nd Sep 23, 2:16pm 1693620966

It would be great if they could spend more time on TOP's website, copying their policies like this.

by kiwikidsnz | 2nd Sep 23, 3:45pm 1693626335

I just had a quick scan of this announcement reports across 4 MSM.

No information given out & no media questions on how it will be paid for (correct me if I missed something). Yet everyone & their grandmother has an opinion on Nationals chances of paying for last weeks tax cuts.

by Dan Brunskill | 2nd Sep 23, 7:46pm 1693640811

Paid for out of future operating allowances. It’s new spending, not funded by anything

Each budget includes some set amount of new spending, this would make up some of that amount in future budgets.

by Dan Brunskill | 2nd Sep 23, 7:48pm 1693640927

National promised its tax cuts would be fully funded, which is why there was a lot of scrutiny on whether it was.

Labour intend this to be new spending.

by wortho | 2nd Sep 23, 9:39pm 1693647586

Bwahahaha… like all Labour spending, it’s new, like, yeah, on top of the other magic money?

by Dan Brunskill | 2nd Sep 23, 11:11pm 1693653101

I’m sure you know this already, but National-led governments also have operating allowances and add a set amount new spending each budget.

by malamah | 3rd Sep 23, 9:38am 1693690694

It is magic money, where do you think it comes from?

by kiwikidsnz | 3rd Sep 23, 11:12am 1693696328

Surely all Govt expenditure has to be funded from somewhere rather than just automatically assume eg GDP, Tax or debt borrowing increases will cover it ( however I am a dinosaur).

The PREFU is out on the 12th Sept so we can all guess then.

by Rampart | 3rd Sep 23, 11:20am 1693696835

Where do they suppose they’ll find these dentists? Not sure if anyone has booked an appointment lately but the wait times are terrible!

by Essen | 3rd Sep 23, 2:12pm 1693707130

There’s also been no scrutiny about whether this will become underfunded over time like GP services are. Many dentists are quiet on this front but it’s a legitimate concern.

by Pa1nter | 2nd Sep 23, 2:20pm 1693621225

Is this cause fruits' so expensive people are buying Mars bars instead of Apples?

by Murray Falconer | 2nd Sep 23, 4:12pm 1693627922

Sugar isn't fussy, there's plenty in both.

by Chinaman1 | 3rd Sep 23, 4:14pm 1693714477

Yes sugar is fussy.

A Mars bar will spike your blood sugar level through the roof. An apple will not.

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 4:23pm 1693715036

Not only that, but you can have a Mars bar, or 4 apples.

It's easy to scarf down a Mars Bar. 4 Apples is a bit more of a stretch.

by Murray Falconer | 3rd Sep 23, 6:44pm 1693723473

Interesting point, I think I would take longer to eat an apple than a mars bar. Does the time you're eating something with sugar change the effect on teeth e.g. if you take twice as long to eat an apple, does that mean the apple does more damage irrespective of sugar density?

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 6:52pm 1693723932

The sugar in a Mars bar is worse than the sugar in an apple. The refined sugars in a Mars bar spike in your system and mess with your insulin. Apple has fibre which releases the sugar in an apple more gradually.

Generally, super refined foods are worser than whole foods, nutritionally. Eating too much calories of anything will make you a fatty.

by Murray Falconer | 3rd Sep 23, 7:15pm 1693725352

The article is about dentistry and teeth, obviously an apple would be healthier overall (in terms of total sugar and vitamins compared with a mars bar but my comments have been about teeth).

I just had a little google and this website doesn't support the sugar in a mars being worse (as far as teeth are concerned).

How Sugar Affects Teeth l Discovery Kids Pediatric Dentistry (discoverykidsdental.com)

Natural sugars are still sugars, and they affect your mouth the same way.

Indeed, given the 20 min reset time it mentions below, eating a mars quickly could possibly do less damage to teeth than eating an apple slowly although they are talking fruit juice rather than an actual fruit so who knows.

Another factor at play is a drop in your mouth’s pH levels, meaning your saliva becomes more acidic. It takes your saliva about 20 minutes to return back to neutral, so every time you sip a sugary beverage or eat a piece of candy, the cycle resets.

by Murray Falconer | 3rd Sep 23, 6:17pm 1693721848

I agree a mars would be more 'sugar dense'. However, my comment was in reference to teeth, are you saying sugar from an apple (or other fruit) behaves differently to sugar from a mars bar with respect to teeth?

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 6:46pm 1693723597

Eating apples can help cleanse and clean teeth, and fight bad breath. The fibrous content of apples cleans teeth by acting as a toothbrush and scrubbing away plaque from teeth, and removing other food debris. The acidity in an apple helps kill off bad bacteria that encourage bad breath

A Mars bar also contains fat, and has questionable nutritional value, outside of a short sugar burst.

by Murray Falconer | 3rd Sep 23, 7:35pm 1693726559

Having clicked on a few more links, it appears some are along the lines of your quote above, others say an apple will cause damage to teeth.

No argument from me about nutritional value, my original comment was never about that.

Apples are a great choice in terms of nutrients for your body. However, when you are concerned about your dental health, the level of acid in an apple is nearly as high as a soda.

Can an Apple a Day Keep the Cavities at Bay? - Riverside Dental Group

by solardb | 3rd Sep 23, 9:27pm 1693733225

Citrus really bad, best to eat something like cheese after eating alot of citrus.

by E46 | 2nd Sep 23, 5:01pm 1693630901

I dunno I know people who have taken amazing care of their teeth and are still plagued with dental issues and others who do the bare minimum yet have zero issues. Dental health seems to have a lot more to do with genetics than people like to admit. Some people just get unlucky and end up having to pay for that.

by Murray Falconer | 3rd Sep 23, 7:57am 1693684630

Fluoride seems to be a factor too. Would the money be better spent there e.g. fluoride tablets for those on roof/tank water.

Community Water Fluoride – safe, effective and affordable | Ministry of Health NZ

I recall listening to talkback radio (decades ago) and someone saying a local dentist could usually tell where the children lived based on their teeth - because some were on town fluoride treated water and the other more rural patients were not. Hopefully someone has done some better research than my sample of one talkback radio caller.

by Colin Cameron | 3rd Sep 23, 11:35am 1693697758

Murray Falconer.

I spent all my young life on tank water and 50 percent of adult life. No fillings perfect straight teeth. Wisdom teeth came up never been to dentist since left school at 15 and am now in 50s. No problem what so ever. Read a report from a scientist on human evolution states that we are having more problems with teeth like crooked/wisdom teeth problems because our jaws are getting smaller as we don't tear our meat and our diet has changed from nuts and rougher foods too more processed foods. That apparently is one reason people are having alot of problems with their teeth. My wife says I must be a throw back then as I have a big mouth she reckons

by Murray Falconer | 3rd Sep 23, 3:13pm 1693710783

We were roof/tank water too Colin. You sure knew when a bird had drowned in the tank eh. I think I had one filling by the end of school. However, Mum religiously gave us fluoride tablets and we brushed twice a day so maybe I was just hoping for a reason to have taken them all those years. I'd heard that about tearing meat thing too, not sure what to make of it to be honest. I am very pro non-processed food now, mainly stick with meat, eggs, some fruit/veges but thinking about going full carnivore just to experiment (sorry, off topic).

BTW, congratulations on marrying a wise woman!

by kiwichas | 3rd Sep 23, 8:56am 1693688187

A disease of poverty poor education+ bad habits.In Northland, no fluoride in tanks, breast fed on coke weaned on to lollies beer and cigarettes, plenty of time to sit around with mouth awash,no local dentists because no one will pay them.

Fear of pain and tight fistedness afflict the wealthy.

For what its worth I reckon our dentist is charging$1300 per hour, and 60% more than last year for similar work,no wonder there is desperation to get in to dental school.

by J.C. | 3rd Sep 23, 5:52pm 1693720337

Is this cause fruits' so expensive people are buying Mars bars instead of Apples?

Sugar prices are up approx 36% in past months. In terms of commodities, the price increase is even greater than gold and silver.

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 5:56pm 1693720571

All I know is a Mars bar is 75 cents on a good day, and a good Jazz Apple can be closer to 2 bucks.

Thanks for the sugar price index, the value of my fruit trees is appreciating every day, for no extra input

by Nifty1 | 2nd Sep 23, 2:20pm 1693621230

Yawn...

by Foxglove. | 2nd Sep 23, 3:33pm 1693625635

The Greens have already announced this. Has it therefore be stolen from them or is it that Labour will, in the same accord, fund it with the Green’s wealth tax.

by sharetrader | 2nd Sep 23, 2:28pm 1693621730

about time a major party has started to address this part of healthcare, it is way to expensive even for a checkup let alone a simple filling

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 3:26pm 1693625184

Or we subsiding bad choices. Drink as much fizzy as you like kids! The poms have free dental and terrible teeth, hard to know why, maybe long queue to get seen?

by False economies | 2nd Sep 23, 4:00pm 1693627223

Not free for a lot of people in UK...

https://globmed.co.uk/blog/entitled-free-dental-care-uk/

by dumbthoughts | 2nd Sep 23, 4:02pm 1693627342

Exactly. It’s not like looking after your teeth is one of the easiest forms of preventive care you can take anyway - brush your teeth (cheap), floss your teeth (cheap) and drink less sugary crap (actually puts money in your pocket).

Go to pak n save and see the trolleys overflowing with coke, or the kids sitting in the bus stops drinking their monster energy cans - no wonder so many people have rubbish teeth.

I’d possibly be on board if Labour had proposed something like everybody qualifies for a subsidised dental check once per year (perhaps instead of giving money away to the supermarket owners) as I’d imagine most dental issues are easier to resolve when caught early. Then if you need care It won’t be so expensive.

At the same time, does the dental system even have capacity for a bunch more people to start showing up? My dentist costs a fortune and still takes 2 months min to get a non emergency appointment.

by E46 | 2nd Sep 23, 5:06pm 1693631182

Definitely true that preventative measures make a huge difference, but I do have some family members who are plagued by dental issues despite taking great care, Genetics plays a big role in it and some people are naturally prone to more dental issues that aren't really within their control.

by James Thrace | 2nd Sep 23, 6:24pm 1693635861

A lot of good dental genetics were bred out by the British Navy in the 1600/1700s. They turned away sailors that didn’t have straight teeth or a mouth full of teeth (need to grip those ropes with something). Those sailors sometimes made it back to land. Meanwhile, everyone with crooked/missing teeth stayed on land and bred. The subsequent genetic output of that outweighed the genetic output of sailors with good teeth.

thats only really applicable for people with british ancestry though.

by rolande | 2nd Sep 23, 8:51pm 1693644665

Amazing if true

by pacifica | 5th Sep 23, 1:54am 1693835663

That is incorrect, but there is a bonus if you are missing teeth then you don't have dental issues with them and a lot of the Navy ended up missing a lot of teeth. However I don't think we should be extracting most of our teeth and switching to dentures in the 20s just yet.

by vman | 2nd Sep 23, 4:04pm 1693627455

Should we stop treating type 2 diabetes and lung cancer if you were a smoker...more lifestyle choices costing the tax payer.

by dumbthoughts | 2nd Sep 23, 4:11pm 1693627860

No, but the tax the heck out of smokes to at least offset the cost.

Maybe we should tax sugary drinks and foods and then use the tax to fund free dental care (and seeing as we are all on board with mucking with the GST system, make toothbrushes and toothpaste GST free)

by Beanie | 3rd Sep 23, 3:18am 1693667887

Just add enough fluoride to anything sugary until it glows in the dark.

While we are at it dunk all fruit and veges in nicotine.

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 4:34pm 1693629264

The Americans don’t, yet they have fatter fatties than us.

by r.james | 4th Sep 23, 5:25am 1693761942

not by much

by Chaosinflesh | 2nd Sep 23, 2:32pm 1693621947

why 30? are these people not adults? call me a cynic, but this is hot air, as i would guess (based on my wider family's experience) very few people need serious dental care under 30, so this is more for the 'look' of doing something rather than actually doing it.

imho, all dentistry should be covered, for the wider benefit to our society.

by Pa1nter | 2nd Sep 23, 2:35pm 1693622129

I guess if you're under 30 they reckon you have less cash for a dentist.

And it's preventative at that age, less to pay for down the line.

End of the day, it's propping up big dentistry

by napierboy | 2nd Sep 23, 2:55pm 1693623314

They said ultimately they would like to make it universal across all ages, but we can't afford that right now, so they have to start somewhere.

by Mark L | 2nd Sep 23, 7:44pm 1693640657

So why not start with 92 year olds and walk it down from there? Surely they have less teeth to maintain.

by kiwichas | 3rd Sep 23, 8:42am 1693687336

Elderly, particularly the poor, and those in care homes have particularly poor dentition causing all sorts of malaise, sepsis, malnutrition, stroke, heart disease as downstream effects from chronic inflammation.

by kiwi_overseas | 2nd Sep 23, 4:54pm 1693630463

Labour indicated the intent to role it out to everyone over time.

The age limit of 30 years was based on what was affordable given current budget projections.

by John from Bunnings | 2nd Sep 23, 2:37pm 1693622267

So free dental care for people who don't really need dental care, it's a surefire loss for these guys.

by napierboy | 2nd Sep 23, 2:58pm 1693623514

Interest free student loans got Labour over the line in 2005. Labour knows if they can draw out the student and South Auckland vote then they will win.

by Mr Frank | 2nd Sep 23, 3:13pm 1693624386

Too little too late.

You think those young kids with teeth falling out are going to use the free dentist service despite it already being free for under 18s today?

by John from Bunnings | 2nd Sep 23, 3:35pm 1693625727

I am in the under 30's group. I don't know anyone under 30 that has had to fork out more than $90 a year for a annual check up.

by agnostium | 2nd Sep 23, 5:07pm 1693631256

My colleague, under 30. Lives in Auckland. 6 month check up and clean $165. He literally told me about it on Friday.

This will not benefit me but it's a good policy. Dental health is mostly down to genetics. Some people just have bad teeth no matter how well they look after them.

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 5:57pm 1693634270

I’m a bit 50/50 on it. You end up paying one way or another.

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:23pm 1693707796

It's one of those things that becomes nice to have if you're broke or struggling.

Dental health is associated with heart health. Making prevention affordable, easy and removing barriers saves money long term.

Much better than National's plan to inflate house prices. This will mean young people having to sacrifice dental health in order to save up a house deposit and then cover mortgage interest. The when they have kids, it will be covering those additional kids costs. Basically a lost decade of health care as other things take priority.

by interesting1234 | 2nd Sep 23, 5:58pm 1693634329

I call it investing in yourself by getting a checkup annually at the least.

by Mr Frank | 2nd Sep 23, 3:11pm 1693624291

Free - paid for by our endless Labour taxes that ends up being used as they wish.

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:24pm 1693707845

This would easily be covered by means testing super.

by Von Metternich | 2nd Sep 23, 3:12pm 1693624343

Just make it an interest free loan for dental work if you don't want to pay for a fully government funded system. A fully government funded system would be far better, how many worker hours are lost to dental related illness?

The economic analysis of socialised healthcare was that it greatly improved the productivity of workers. This is half hearted.

by Mr Frank | 2nd Sep 23, 3:14pm 1693624468

Why just dental? What about mental health? What about addictions? What about everything else?

This is just Labour desperately trying to remain relevant.

by Pa1nter | 2nd Sep 23, 3:20pm 1693624852

A trip to the dentist will set the government back a few hundy on average.

Fixing mental health would cost * insert large sum here*

by Mr Frank | 2nd Sep 23, 3:24pm 1693625046

They did commit what 1b kn ment health... and what did we get? Zero. OK ill be fair, one extra mental health bed.

by interesting1234 | 2nd Sep 23, 6:00pm 1693634412

Even ACC don’t fully fund dentistry from an accident, and there’s a good reason - it is a pricey endeavour.

by Sluggy | 3rd Sep 23, 10:29am 1693693764

Maybe dentistry needs socialising ? I remember fondly the murder house as a kid at primary school.

A dentist I no longer go too was obviously trained in the sales pitch, there was always something I should do for a measly 2-300 . I left and found one without the patter.

by kiwikidsnz | 3rd Sep 23, 10:57am 1693695469

https://youtu.be/Iq2vV7l2owI?feature=shared

2 years training

Noting that the professional dentist's moaned about setting up the dental nurses in the 1940s, I can only imagine the outrage nowadays as they protect their income.

by Small Kev | 2nd Sep 23, 3:52pm 1693626753

Not enough. Also people can choose to eat healthier food and look after their teeth.

by Blackbeard | 2nd Sep 23, 3:58pm 1693627138

Wow…National has just announced ‘free dental care for 12 months’ when you take out a 30 year mortgage.

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 4:36pm 1693629391

Don’t put ideas in their head.

by dumbthoughts | 2nd Sep 23, 4:57pm 1693630624

No they'd come along and allow you to use your Kiwisaver balance to pay for dentistry.

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 6:01pm 1693634473

Nah then you couldn’t buy a house with it. In fact I’m surprised they haven’t given under 30s a big fat KiwiSaver employer contribution so they have more of a house deposit.

by Squishy | 2nd Sep 23, 4:12pm 1693627955

Is this really the right time for government to be committing to more unfunded future liabilities?

by MLSmith1 | 2nd Sep 23, 4:13pm 1693628035

Vote profiling me thinks

by vman | 2nd Sep 23, 4:22pm 1693628546

And tax breaks for landlords and foreign buyers over $2 mill isn't...let's be honest,red,blue,green,yellow...most policy releases at this time of the year are voter profiled and run past focus groups if their target market.

by Back 2 Basics | 2nd Sep 23, 4:24pm 1693628699

According to treasury forecast New Zealanders will pay an additional $80 billion over the next 4 years in tax. Which makes the forecasted $380 million (over 4 years) spend on dental treatment a drop in the ocean. Give free dental to all! Our dental treatment is so expensive for 95% of people

From 2022/23 to 2026/27 Core Crown tax revenue is expected to climb from $115.3 billion in 2022/23 to $147.5 billion in 2026/27. The increase over the forecast period primarily comes from source deductions (mainly PAYE) at $15.1 billion, GST at $6.6 billion and corporate tax at $5.4 billion.

labour are clutching at straws offering nothing but smoke and mirrors

by jeremyr | 2nd Sep 23, 4:27pm 1693628876

Don’t think people really care or are listening to Hipkins now. Seems his last day of work was yesterday and people are just looking forward to not seeing him again after October 14th.

by Stuart Mason | 2nd Sep 23, 4:50pm 1693630239

4 predictions:-

2023: Labour loses Election

2023: Reserve Bank Govenor replaced

2024: Hipkins resigns as Leader of Opposition

2024: Robertson quits politics

by kiwikidsnz | 2nd Sep 23, 5:00pm 1693630849

2024 many NZdrs express surprise at how competent Luxon appears to be as PM.

Including myself...

by agnostium | 2nd Sep 23, 5:09pm 1693631386

Sarc?

by sharetrader | 2nd Sep 23, 5:18pm 1693631897

a national cabinet minister in trouble within six months due to conflict of interest but national party radio and newspaper will run defence for them so they will hang on for awhile

by profile | 2nd Sep 23, 6:19pm 1693635574

2023: Tova releases the Kraken on Luxon two weeks out from the election. There must be a reason the balanced MSM were so desperate to have Luxon inserted as leader as soon as he became an MP.

by Blackbeard | 2nd Sep 23, 11:00pm 1693652401

1 prediction.

National lose, Labour win. Many property speculators are hospitalised with deep depression.

by kiwichas | 3rd Sep 23, 8:30am 1693686650

No hospital, no beds

by Nzdan | 3rd Sep 23, 12:30pm 1693701009

They can turf out a tenant to spite them and Labour, and convert a rental property into a makeshift asylum. Fit out the master bedroom with padded walls and a gurney.

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:25pm 1693707935

Careful, Yvil may be listening.

by David Murray1 | 2nd Sep 23, 5:12pm 1693631537

both Labour and National are making promises that the NZ Taxpayer can't afford!

by EdwardD | 2nd Sep 23, 6:12pm 1693635126

I made an appointment for a checkup & cleaning last week and the first available appointment was the last week in Oct. Where will all the dentists come from?

by camnz | 2nd Sep 23, 6:42pm 1693636933

While I like the idea of free dental for all..... Wouldn't the cash be better going to solve the existing issues in the health system??

Only problem is that is boring and not vote catcher headlines...

I can't wait until this whole election is over....

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 7:39pm 1693640380

“I can't wait until this whole election is over....“ yes both parties chucking out lollies we don’t really want or need, can we get this election over with before they bankrupt us.

by dumbthoughts | 3rd Sep 23, 8:47am 1693687646

We can't be that far off somebody promising state-funded KFC or PS5 consoles in exchange for votes, can we?

by colonel_macloed | 3rd Sep 23, 8:30am 1693686657

Always remember you can vote for less taxes paid to the government and allocate that money you keep to whatever you want. Dental insurance while raising kids or in preparation for being older are great ideas. I support your freedom to choose.

by fat pat | 2nd Sep 23, 7:20pm 1693639252

Labour gives both the IMF, and mortgage holders the middle finger.

by K.W. | 2nd Sep 23, 7:33pm 1693640031

Where are all the extra dentists going to come from? Apart from the fact that Dentistry School applies the same racist entry policies as Medical School, there are only 60 places a year, and another 25 places for foreign fee paying students. Its no wonder dentistry is so expensive.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/otago-dentistry-school-dentist-dad-believ…

I go to Bangkok for any decent dental work. For starters, I wouldnt trust one of those "special entry" dentists to go mucking around in my mouth, and second, the Thai dentists are highly specialised experts trained by New York University, one of the oldest and best Dental Schools in the US. And the dental work costs about half as much.

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 7:41pm 1693640483

They also giving the dentistry school a big funding boost.

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:29pm 1693708160

Jesus, the entitlement you demonstrate is astounding.

Are you suggesting Labour should pay for flights to Bangkok every six months for under 30s so they can get Thai dental treatment.

The idea that under 30s could fly to Thailand for their dental treatment makes me sick in my gut as is shows how out of touch a whole bunch of rich Kiwi's are.

How about taxing anyone who flies to Thailand for their dental treatment 100% of that trips costs so at least it will pay for one other person to have the same dental treatment.

by K.W. | 3rd Sep 23, 5:45pm 1693719936

Why should the Govt pay for it? Over 50,000 New Zealanders a year go to Thailand for holidays, the biggest group of them are the under 30s https://figure.nz/chart/BYtV3whMaStdsOEN-Yq6wnUapu569S541

While there, they can get cheap dental treatment. If you can afford the holiday, you can afford to pay for your own dental work. Its not like Labour is promising free dental work just for low income people - its all people, including those who clearly can afford to pay for it. Its another example of "spray money at everyone and completely waste it" rather than targeted spending on those most in need. Much like the school lunches for everyone, including those who can afford to bring their own lunch and who then put the free lunch straight in the rubbish bin.

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 5:47pm 1693720079

Why bother targeting though? Isn’t it much simpler to give it to everyone, the people that can afford it anyway pay either way. As opposed to the bludger with community services card gets it free and the bloke earning just over min wage has to full pay for it etc. Determining who needs it and who doesn’t is more difficult than it sounds.

by K.W. | 3rd Sep 23, 5:52pm 1693720322

Because there isnt enough money to go around. NZ is rapidly becoming a poor country. Each dollar spent needs to be accounted for, and achieve something. Wasting money on free dental work and school lunches for people who dont need it, is money that could be spent providing more mental health beds or waiting list surgeries. Labour simply have the most ridiculous priorities. I'm more worried about being able to get a knee operation or a cancer drug than I am about being able to get my teeth cleaned.

by Yvil | 2nd Sep 23, 7:36pm 1693640160

I'm thinking of launching my own party, I'll promise free chocolate and wine for everyone, surely I'll get over 5% of votes ?

by JimboJones | 2nd Sep 23, 7:42pm 1693640542

Can I have beer instead? Or is that a different party?

by Yvil | 2nd Sep 23, 9:43pm 1693647825

Brilliant idea JJ, come and join the party.

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 10:26am 1693693573

And much like all socialism, we’ll worry about the hangover later.

by fat pat | 2nd Sep 23, 8:11pm 1693642301

Great idea. It'll be super popular if you lower the voting age to 5. Parents might object, but you legislate against that.

by Yvil | 2nd Sep 23, 9:44pm 1693647897

Awesome FP, you can have the education portfolio!

by Pragmatist | 2nd Sep 23, 11:39pm 1693654760

Wine... Hmm, pass, make it a good single malt and I'm in.

by Yvil | 3rd Sep 23, 3:26pm 1693711613

Great! As long as you don't confuse Ardberg with Ardern.

by K.W. | 3rd Sep 23, 5:48pm 1693720101

Up the stakes. Promise that no one will have to pay tax ever again. Be like Labour, promise everything, provide no costings, then deliver nothing. Its worked for them for 6 years now.

by alphabeatrium | 2nd Sep 23, 8:19pm 1693642768

Creeping socialism.

by Pa1nter | 2nd Sep 23, 8:58pm 1693645121

As bad as that is, we are seeing wealth increasingly consolidate, and the relative value of individual labour driven down.

by Kate | 2nd Sep 23, 9:58pm 1693648690

Labour hopes to tackle this problem by offering free annual check-ups, dental cleans, basic fillings and extractions for people in their twenties.

Welcome policy.

Healthy teeth and gums are so very, very important, but I wonder if it could have been better designed/targeted. For example, some people have really healthy teeth and gums - but crooked/out-of-place teeth. Other people have a need for partials or dentures after having lost a tooth/teeth. So an annual credit/allowance applied to an individual's NHI account, starting at 19 years (with the credit being able to be accumulated/carried over) would have been better designed to my mind.

In other words, for those who look after their teeth - there are potential savings accumulated as dental health need often increases with age. For example, I had problem-free teeth until after I had children. I always thought that might have had to do with nutrient depletion during pregnancy - or perhaps breast-feeding after birth? Never bothered looking it up, but I remember it well, as the subsequent fillings were expenses we really could have done without when the children were young.

by Kate | 2nd Sep 23, 10:09pm 1693649366

In case some people are not aware, check out whether your DHB offers Community Services Card holders discounted, in-patient dental health services for those experiencing acute pain. Usually, there is no need for a referral from ER, just make an appointment direct with the hospital's dental clinic.

by kiwichas | 3rd Sep 23, 8:23am 1693686213

At Middlemore an impecunious patient of mine was turned down despite having a dental abscess and massive facial swelling and fever, so good luck.

by Kate | 3rd Sep 23, 8:35am 1693686933

Auckland is a nightmare in many more ways than just traffic.

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 10:25am 1693693516

Auckland probably has the best healthcare don’t you think? If our kids get really sick, starship is a 15 minute drive away. I would avoid living in the middlemore zone though.

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 11:24am 1693697070

Its a 15 min drive, and at the wrong time of day, a 6hr wait to see someone.

by r.james | 3rd Sep 23, 4:29am 1693672164

they cant fix the health system so they aren't going to fix your teeth either, another election buying BS

by kiwichas | 3rd Sep 23, 8:29am 1693686555

Should be a criminal offence to say "vote for me" and , whatever, will be "free"

Have not got the guts to say we are going to tax the living s--- out of you to pay for it, (not that you'll get "it")

On topic, if dentistry is going to be fully subsidised (which will put dentist incomes and fees up), why not fund it with a hefty sugar tax??

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 10:12am 1693692764

Because the poor buy all the sugar and they can’t possibly drink tap water like the rich do. So it would technically be regressive.

by K.W. | 3rd Sep 23, 5:58pm 1693720692

And racist.

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:31pm 1693708286

Or maybe means testing super and not not removing interest deductability?

by Blackdog | 3rd Sep 23, 8:46am 1693687589

Free means more tax and borrowing.

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 10:21am 1693693303

Funny how no party ever comes up with free food! The most essential expense is never subsidised (with the exception GST on fruit and veg), but petrol was subsidised and heating is subsidised and dentistry can be subsidised and accommodation is subsidised. In a way a food subsidy would make the most sense, you get a card loaded with money that can only be used on healthy food. Not saying I like the idea, I think the government should just provide the services that the private sector can’t (not many) and a safety net for those that can’t work (in fact I’d even change the safety net to work more like ACC).

by Macawsley | 3rd Sep 23, 10:44am 1693694649

Free school lunches

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 6:52pm 1693723973

don’t get me started on that.

by The_Golem | 3rd Sep 23, 9:14am 1693689296

Labour have ideas, but any implementation always seems to devolve in to a rolling omnishambles.

From the outside for the tent (and who of us is not) parts seem to be played by rigid doctrine's confirmation bias that leads to magical thinking about cause and effect, fact finding enquiries that seem eternal, the intervention of the brute realities of costs and poor productivity and falling tax take, special interest interference, selecting implementation staff for political appropriateness rather than experience, and where following process is seen as more important than actually getting a usable result.

Like mental health reform, building 100000 houses, the Dunedin Hospital build, three waters, centralising tertiary sector, centralising the health services and all the rest - does anyone believe anything effective and useful will actually happen in a timely way?

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 10:10am 1693692650

Yea this could be another Labour promise that seems simple prior to the election, but if they win they don’t do the simple thing and instead decide to completely reorganise the dental industry and in 3 years we get nothing. Much like light rail was going to be built before the Americas cup, but instead we don’t even have a design and it realistically will never be built because they changed their mind and made it a $15 billion tunnel.

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:33pm 1693708381

It's because the solution is generally not actually simple to implement. I would rather have party that tries to tackle a difficult issue than one that says f*** it. I'm alright jack so f*** everyone else. Which seems to to National's platform.

by Essen | 3rd Sep 23, 2:54pm 1693709678

…except sometimes the changes can make things worse. Sure, I hate National’s conservatism and, partly, this is why Act is increasing in popularity over time. But if you are making changes to complex systems you do need to think through the consequences. Unfortunately, the current Labour lot have the same zeal as their predecessors with 10% of the intellectual grunt and 0% of the work ethic. Consequently, things are getting worse. TWO is a disaster.

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 4:05pm 1693713906

Sadly, the parties that are more vocal at highlighting the problems are also very far removed from pragmatic solutions that actually fix problems.

Whoda thunk complaining about things was easier than doin stuff

by Nzdan | 3rd Sep 23, 4:40pm 1693716022

Contrarian Politics.

Just obnoxiously shout down and oppose anything the other party does or proposes, and when called out on it just smugly say "It's the job of an opposition party, to keep the sitting party in check".

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 4:56pm 1693716980

Mmmm. Sorta.

In fairness I haven't gotten too close to a lot of government work under a National Government, but the way Labour are implementing policy and ideas, is counter-intuitive to getting things done in a timely and economical fashion. They will add additional layers of oversight and compliance, administered by truly clueless bureaucrats that remove value, rather than add it.

Might sound wonky but I would probably lean more left than right, philosophically, because capitalism invariably eats itself as wealth consolidates. But Leftist politicians generally have their head in the clouds when it comes to actually getting things done. Except maybe the CCP, and I wouldn't be interested living under them.

by JimboJones | 3rd Sep 23, 5:44pm 1693719880

Will be interesting if National can get things done. They didn’t get much done under Key and English. Sometimes they just need to chuck money at stuff to fix it, maybe both are too debt averse to do so.

by Essen | 3rd Sep 23, 6:36pm 1693723011

The problem, I think, is our political cycle is mismatched with our economic one. We needed a big spending Labour government between 2008-2014 and a restrained National one between 2017-2023.

by The_Golem | 4th Sep 23, 9:42pm 1693820528

You're right: implementation can be incredibly complex - but if you promise to do something as a government, you need to have at least a plan for how you're going to work out how to deliver it. To do other than that is magical thinking - but it seems to be the way policy is being made.

by Middleaged | 3rd Sep 23, 10:03am 1693692199

This will go the same way as ACC, which is supposed to cover the costs of injury. In reality, ACC is only paying about 60% of the cost of going to the physio.

The dentists willsee a gradual erosion of their income over 20 years.

by Essen | 3rd Sep 23, 2:42pm 1693708937

100% until they’re making losses. Govt funding sounds great, until the bureaucrats screw you over year after year. This has happened in GP and is a big reason why St John like to be independent.

by Takere | 3rd Sep 23, 10:56am 1693695361

So does anybody know when National, and Labour are going to make the big announcement about them forming a Grand Coalition?

by Sluggy | 3rd Sep 23, 11:48am 1693698514

Imagine if parts of government, such as housing, food, taxation were unilaterally agreed on. They'd have to campaign on actual policy and vision. Probably all incapable.

by Pa1nter | 3rd Sep 23, 12:00pm 1693699221

That's how most of our governance works.

These parties are just tinkering around the edges.

by Nzdan | 3rd Sep 23, 12:34pm 1693701275

Form a Grand Coalition. Every 2 years & 1 day, change the prime minister to share around the lifetime parliamentary annuity & travel perks among their mates.

by Firstclass | 3rd Sep 23, 1:43pm 1693705439

"free dental care"

Nothing in life is free, the tax payer has to pay for this bill !

Now, are there any real ideas from Labour, to improve our economy, serious medium to long term plans, or just lolly scrambles again ?

by agnostium | 3rd Sep 23, 2:34pm 1693708475

That's fine. If you make sure the only taxpayers that have to fund it are the ones that have been abusing the system, taking out more than they contribute and are obscenely wealthy.

by Feedup | 3rd Sep 23, 8:08pm 1693728483

Election bribe..pure and simple.