The Labour Party officially launched its Election 2023 campaign in Auckland Saturday, with a big new promise: free dental care for people under 30.
Currently many services are free for those under 18, but many young adults don’t seek any further treatment until they have finished university and have established careers.
Labour hopes to tackle this problem by offering free annual check-ups, dental cleans, basic fillings and extractions for people in their twenties.
The policy, if implemented, would initially cover those aged 18–23 in 2025 and be expanded to 29-year-olds from 2026.
Labour has priced the policy at $390 million across the four years following 2024. The party would also increase the number of dentists in training. It would cost $160m in 2027.
A policy document said more than 1.5 million adults, or 37%, were estimated to have an unmet need for dental care due to cost — with higher rates for Māori and Pasifika.
The campaign launch at the Aotea Centre was picketed by a group of protestors from Freedoms NZ, who partly blocked the stairs leading into the building.
Former Prime Minister Helen Clark had a police escort lead her into the building, but most MPs did not.
143 Comments
I just had a quick scan of this announcement reports across 4 MSM.
No information given out & no media questions on how it will be paid for (correct me if I missed something). Yet everyone & their grandmother has an opinion on Nationals chances of paying for last weeks tax cuts.
Interesting point, I think I would take longer to eat an apple than a mars bar. Does the time you're eating something with sugar change the effect on teeth e.g. if you take twice as long to eat an apple, does that mean the apple does more damage irrespective of sugar density?
The sugar in a Mars bar is worse than the sugar in an apple. The refined sugars in a Mars bar spike in your system and mess with your insulin. Apple has fibre which releases the sugar in an apple more gradually.
Generally, super refined foods are worser than whole foods, nutritionally. Eating too much calories of anything will make you a fatty.
The article is about dentistry and teeth, obviously an apple would be healthier overall (in terms of total sugar and vitamins compared with a mars bar but my comments have been about teeth).
I just had a little google and this website doesn't support the sugar in a mars being worse (as far as teeth are concerned).
How Sugar Affects Teeth l Discovery Kids Pediatric Dentistry (discoverykidsdental.com)
Natural sugars are still sugars, and they affect your mouth the same way.
Indeed, given the 20 min reset time it mentions below, eating a mars quickly could possibly do less damage to teeth than eating an apple slowly although they are talking fruit juice rather than an actual fruit so who knows.
Another factor at play is a drop in your mouth’s pH levels, meaning your saliva becomes more acidic. It takes your saliva about 20 minutes to return back to neutral, so every time you sip a sugary beverage or eat a piece of candy, the cycle resets.
Eating apples can help cleanse and clean teeth, and fight bad breath. The fibrous content of apples cleans teeth by acting as a toothbrush and scrubbing away plaque from teeth, and removing other food debris. The acidity in an apple helps kill off bad bacteria that encourage bad breath
A Mars bar also contains fat, and has questionable nutritional value, outside of a short sugar burst.
Having clicked on a few more links, it appears some are along the lines of your quote above, others say an apple will cause damage to teeth.
No argument from me about nutritional value, my original comment was never about that.
Apples are a great choice in terms of nutrients for your body. However, when you are concerned about your dental health, the level of acid in an apple is nearly as high as a soda.
Can an Apple a Day Keep the Cavities at Bay? - Riverside Dental Group
I dunno I know people who have taken amazing care of their teeth and are still plagued with dental issues and others who do the bare minimum yet have zero issues. Dental health seems to have a lot more to do with genetics than people like to admit. Some people just get unlucky and end up having to pay for that.
Fluoride seems to be a factor too. Would the money be better spent there e.g. fluoride tablets for those on roof/tank water.
Community Water Fluoride – safe, effective and affordable | Ministry of Health NZ
I recall listening to talkback radio (decades ago) and someone saying a local dentist could usually tell where the children lived based on their teeth - because some were on town fluoride treated water and the other more rural patients were not. Hopefully someone has done some better research than my sample of one talkback radio caller.
Murray Falconer.
I spent all my young life on tank water and 50 percent of adult life. No fillings perfect straight teeth. Wisdom teeth came up never been to dentist since left school at 15 and am now in 50s. No problem what so ever. Read a report from a scientist on human evolution states that we are having more problems with teeth like crooked/wisdom teeth problems because our jaws are getting smaller as we don't tear our meat and our diet has changed from nuts and rougher foods too more processed foods. That apparently is one reason people are having alot of problems with their teeth. My wife says I must be a throw back then as I have a big mouth she reckons
We were roof/tank water too Colin. You sure knew when a bird had drowned in the tank eh. I think I had one filling by the end of school. However, Mum religiously gave us fluoride tablets and we brushed twice a day so maybe I was just hoping for a reason to have taken them all those years. I'd heard that about tearing meat thing too, not sure what to make of it to be honest. I am very pro non-processed food now, mainly stick with meat, eggs, some fruit/veges but thinking about going full carnivore just to experiment (sorry, off topic).
BTW, congratulations on marrying a wise woman!
A disease of poverty poor education+ bad habits.In Northland, no fluoride in tanks, breast fed on coke weaned on to lollies beer and cigarettes, plenty of time to sit around with mouth awash,no local dentists because no one will pay them.
Fear of pain and tight fistedness afflict the wealthy.
For what its worth I reckon our dentist is charging$1300 per hour, and 60% more than last year for similar work,no wonder there is desperation to get in to dental school.
Not free for a lot of people in UK...
Exactly. It’s not like looking after your teeth is one of the easiest forms of preventive care you can take anyway - brush your teeth (cheap), floss your teeth (cheap) and drink less sugary crap (actually puts money in your pocket).
Go to pak n save and see the trolleys overflowing with coke, or the kids sitting in the bus stops drinking their monster energy cans - no wonder so many people have rubbish teeth.
I’d possibly be on board if Labour had proposed something like everybody qualifies for a subsidised dental check once per year (perhaps instead of giving money away to the supermarket owners) as I’d imagine most dental issues are easier to resolve when caught early. Then if you need care It won’t be so expensive.
At the same time, does the dental system even have capacity for a bunch more people to start showing up? My dentist costs a fortune and still takes 2 months min to get a non emergency appointment.
Definitely true that preventative measures make a huge difference, but I do have some family members who are plagued by dental issues despite taking great care, Genetics plays a big role in it and some people are naturally prone to more dental issues that aren't really within their control.
A lot of good dental genetics were bred out by the British Navy in the 1600/1700s. They turned away sailors that didn’t have straight teeth or a mouth full of teeth (need to grip those ropes with something). Those sailors sometimes made it back to land. Meanwhile, everyone with crooked/missing teeth stayed on land and bred. The subsequent genetic output of that outweighed the genetic output of sailors with good teeth.
thats only really applicable for people with british ancestry though.
That is incorrect, but there is a bonus if you are missing teeth then you don't have dental issues with them and a lot of the Navy ended up missing a lot of teeth. However I don't think we should be extracting most of our teeth and switching to dentures in the 20s just yet.
No, but the tax the heck out of smokes to at least offset the cost.
Maybe we should tax sugary drinks and foods and then use the tax to fund free dental care (and seeing as we are all on board with mucking with the GST system, make toothbrushes and toothpaste GST free)
why 30? are these people not adults? call me a cynic, but this is hot air, as i would guess (based on my wider family's experience) very few people need serious dental care under 30, so this is more for the 'look' of doing something rather than actually doing it.
imho, all dentistry should be covered, for the wider benefit to our society.
My colleague, under 30. Lives in Auckland. 6 month check up and clean $165. He literally told me about it on Friday.
This will not benefit me but it's a good policy. Dental health is mostly down to genetics. Some people just have bad teeth no matter how well they look after them.
It's one of those things that becomes nice to have if you're broke or struggling.
Dental health is associated with heart health. Making prevention affordable, easy and removing barriers saves money long term.
Much better than National's plan to inflate house prices. This will mean young people having to sacrifice dental health in order to save up a house deposit and then cover mortgage interest. The when they have kids, it will be covering those additional kids costs. Basically a lost decade of health care as other things take priority.
Just make it an interest free loan for dental work if you don't want to pay for a fully government funded system. A fully government funded system would be far better, how many worker hours are lost to dental related illness?
The economic analysis of socialised healthcare was that it greatly improved the productivity of workers. This is half hearted.
Maybe dentistry needs socialising ? I remember fondly the murder house as a kid at primary school.
A dentist I no longer go too was obviously trained in the sales pitch, there was always something I should do for a measly 2-300 . I left and found one without the patter.
https://youtu.be/Iq2vV7l2owI?feature=shared
2 years training
Noting that the professional dentist's moaned about setting up the dental nurses in the 1940s, I can only imagine the outrage nowadays as they protect their income.
According to treasury forecast New Zealanders will pay an additional $80 billion over the next 4 years in tax. Which makes the forecasted $380 million (over 4 years) spend on dental treatment a drop in the ocean. Give free dental to all! Our dental treatment is so expensive for 95% of people
From 2022/23 to 2026/27 Core Crown tax revenue is expected to climb from $115.3 billion in 2022/23 to $147.5 billion in 2026/27. The increase over the forecast period primarily comes from source deductions (mainly PAYE) at $15.1 billion, GST at $6.6 billion and corporate tax at $5.4 billion.
labour are clutching at straws offering nothing but smoke and mirrors
Where are all the extra dentists going to come from? Apart from the fact that Dentistry School applies the same racist entry policies as Medical School, there are only 60 places a year, and another 25 places for foreign fee paying students. Its no wonder dentistry is so expensive.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/otago-dentistry-school-dentist-dad-believ…
I go to Bangkok for any decent dental work. For starters, I wouldnt trust one of those "special entry" dentists to go mucking around in my mouth, and second, the Thai dentists are highly specialised experts trained by New York University, one of the oldest and best Dental Schools in the US. And the dental work costs about half as much.
Jesus, the entitlement you demonstrate is astounding.
Are you suggesting Labour should pay for flights to Bangkok every six months for under 30s so they can get Thai dental treatment.
The idea that under 30s could fly to Thailand for their dental treatment makes me sick in my gut as is shows how out of touch a whole bunch of rich Kiwi's are.
How about taxing anyone who flies to Thailand for their dental treatment 100% of that trips costs so at least it will pay for one other person to have the same dental treatment.
Why should the Govt pay for it? Over 50,000 New Zealanders a year go to Thailand for holidays, the biggest group of them are the under 30s https://figure.nz/chart/BYtV3whMaStdsOEN-Yq6wnUapu569S541
While there, they can get cheap dental treatment. If you can afford the holiday, you can afford to pay for your own dental work. Its not like Labour is promising free dental work just for low income people - its all people, including those who clearly can afford to pay for it. Its another example of "spray money at everyone and completely waste it" rather than targeted spending on those most in need. Much like the school lunches for everyone, including those who can afford to bring their own lunch and who then put the free lunch straight in the rubbish bin.
Why bother targeting though? Isn’t it much simpler to give it to everyone, the people that can afford it anyway pay either way. As opposed to the bludger with community services card gets it free and the bloke earning just over min wage has to full pay for it etc. Determining who needs it and who doesn’t is more difficult than it sounds.
Because there isnt enough money to go around. NZ is rapidly becoming a poor country. Each dollar spent needs to be accounted for, and achieve something. Wasting money on free dental work and school lunches for people who dont need it, is money that could be spent providing more mental health beds or waiting list surgeries. Labour simply have the most ridiculous priorities. I'm more worried about being able to get a knee operation or a cancer drug than I am about being able to get my teeth cleaned.
Labour hopes to tackle this problem by offering free annual check-ups, dental cleans, basic fillings and extractions for people in their twenties.
Welcome policy.
Healthy teeth and gums are so very, very important, but I wonder if it could have been better designed/targeted. For example, some people have really healthy teeth and gums - but crooked/out-of-place teeth. Other people have a need for partials or dentures after having lost a tooth/teeth. So an annual credit/allowance applied to an individual's NHI account, starting at 19 years (with the credit being able to be accumulated/carried over) would have been better designed to my mind.
In other words, for those who look after their teeth - there are potential savings accumulated as dental health need often increases with age. For example, I had problem-free teeth until after I had children. I always thought that might have had to do with nutrient depletion during pregnancy - or perhaps breast-feeding after birth? Never bothered looking it up, but I remember it well, as the subsequent fillings were expenses we really could have done without when the children were young.
In case some people are not aware, check out whether your DHB offers Community Services Card holders discounted, in-patient dental health services for those experiencing acute pain. Usually, there is no need for a referral from ER, just make an appointment direct with the hospital's dental clinic.
Should be a criminal offence to say "vote for me" and , whatever, will be "free"
Have not got the guts to say we are going to tax the living s--- out of you to pay for it, (not that you'll get "it")
On topic, if dentistry is going to be fully subsidised (which will put dentist incomes and fees up), why not fund it with a hefty sugar tax??
Funny how no party ever comes up with free food! The most essential expense is never subsidised (with the exception GST on fruit and veg), but petrol was subsidised and heating is subsidised and dentistry can be subsidised and accommodation is subsidised. In a way a food subsidy would make the most sense, you get a card loaded with money that can only be used on healthy food. Not saying I like the idea, I think the government should just provide the services that the private sector can’t (not many) and a safety net for those that can’t work (in fact I’d even change the safety net to work more like ACC).
Labour have ideas, but any implementation always seems to devolve in to a rolling omnishambles.
From the outside for the tent (and who of us is not) parts seem to be played by rigid doctrine's confirmation bias that leads to magical thinking about cause and effect, fact finding enquiries that seem eternal, the intervention of the brute realities of costs and poor productivity and falling tax take, special interest interference, selecting implementation staff for political appropriateness rather than experience, and where following process is seen as more important than actually getting a usable result.
Like mental health reform, building 100000 houses, the Dunedin Hospital build, three waters, centralising tertiary sector, centralising the health services and all the rest - does anyone believe anything effective and useful will actually happen in a timely way?
Yea this could be another Labour promise that seems simple prior to the election, but if they win they don’t do the simple thing and instead decide to completely reorganise the dental industry and in 3 years we get nothing. Much like light rail was going to be built before the Americas cup, but instead we don’t even have a design and it realistically will never be built because they changed their mind and made it a $15 billion tunnel.
…except sometimes the changes can make things worse. Sure, I hate National’s conservatism and, partly, this is why Act is increasing in popularity over time. But if you are making changes to complex systems you do need to think through the consequences. Unfortunately, the current Labour lot have the same zeal as their predecessors with 10% of the intellectual grunt and 0% of the work ethic. Consequently, things are getting worse. TWO is a disaster.
Mmmm. Sorta.
In fairness I haven't gotten too close to a lot of government work under a National Government, but the way Labour are implementing policy and ideas, is counter-intuitive to getting things done in a timely and economical fashion. They will add additional layers of oversight and compliance, administered by truly clueless bureaucrats that remove value, rather than add it.
Might sound wonky but I would probably lean more left than right, philosophically, because capitalism invariably eats itself as wealth consolidates. But Leftist politicians generally have their head in the clouds when it comes to actually getting things done. Except maybe the CCP, and I wouldn't be interested living under them.
You're right: implementation can be incredibly complex - but if you promise to do something as a government, you need to have at least a plan for how you're going to work out how to deliver it. To do other than that is magical thinking - but it seems to be the way policy is being made.
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