There were slightly fewer properties on offer at the latest auctions monitored by interest.co.nz, but the sale rate firmed a bit.
Altogether interest.co.nz monitored 343 residential properties from around the country over the week of 28 September to 4 October, down slightly from 356 the previous week but still well up from where things were at the beginning of last month.
However sales were stronger with 151 properties selling under the hammer, up from 141 the previous week.
That pushed the sales rate up from 40% to 44% at the latest auctions.
Overall we are seeing a modest but steady improvement in auction activity and this is likely to continue as we move from spring to the summer selling season.
However buyers remain cautious on price with just 45% of sales making their rating valuations and in Auckland that was just 26%,
Details of the individual properties offered at all of the auctions monitored by interest.co.nz, including the selling prices of those that sold, are available on our Residential Auction Results page.
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110 Comments
Don't really venture into these property threads much anymore, as they seem like a masterclass in what not to do.
The highly promoted 2024 property bargain basement discount bonanza looks like it had an opportunity window as narrow as a Death Star trench run.
Oh well kids, maybe wait another 15 years.
Indeed. About a year ago I decided to weed out people who don't add anything to my life, both on Interest and in person. So I don't see RP's comments anymore thanks to another reader's "patch" which allows to hide comments from certain posters.
I'm very happy I don't have to waste my time with argumentative people anymore.
@retiredp. Well the person you describe there was something I aspired to - however the opposite it true - honest comment its been an absolute humbling experience the equation is more like (Assets depreciating + Assets constantly needs to be maintained ) + (Negative Cashflow + High Interest + ringfenced loss' ) = most of my salary goes to topping up mortgages. Honestly anyone wanting to be a landlord get good advice it ain't easy.
perhaps - i was hoping to hear from you Averageman - do you remember our conversation about a month ago and me metioning that interest rates was going to drop to 5% wholesale by March and you ask me to put a reasonable argument forward since interest in Sept was almost 7%?
@retiredp. maybe i am being to honest this morning. I like Wingman's comments that's about it. I have no in depth knowledge of Wingman / Iceman / Cote there is another few I feel my comments on here is more aligned to how I perceive life (as I said I dont know them)....... NZ Gecko / yourself / averageman - also have cracking comments - and i enjoy reading them. For me it comes down to this: Its easy to do nothing, a person just sits there and do nothing- its not so easy to have tried something that you perceive is worth while so I generally gravitate that way - all said and done, from 15 years of experience be careful becoming a property investor PS I am not deeply regretting my property journey at all. I am just saying its not easy and I have made mistakes this last 4 years was tough - however not regretting it. I have learned allot from the last 4 years and I will incorporate that going forward in my investor journey - rules change and that can catch you out.
maybe i am being to honest this morning
safeashouses, you can never be too honest! Based on your comment, you don't seem to be "Spruiker" material as the truth is much easier to remember.
Lesson number one: Always treat a Property Spruikers advice with the greatest of suspicion.
All the very best :)
Yes SAH seems a good sort...... unlike the old dawg Winger, has a sense of realism and humanity/humility.
Winger would happily lead numpty Lemmings over the cliff........in his "make a fortune" buying next to my Riverswamp paradise ........
He is just as bad as the Tones the Comb.....and Ash Churchless.
Interesting to see the US Govt yields rising strongly last few days.......is this the bottom of the recent rates dropping?
It’s certainly interesting with the US unemployment rate improving from 4.2% to 4.1% for September.
This along with Powell’s latest comments suggest the US rate cut cycle is already over?
Or they’re fluffing the data for the election and we should expect more downward revisions.
Mate, don’t even waste an ounce of energy on some people on here that do and know very little yet have strong opinions or advice to others. They’re basically insecure or probably jealous having missed out on investing in property some time back and try to put their insecurities on others. They will always proclaim doom!
Just laughable.
94 Station Road Papatoetoe, Manukau City (https://rwmanukau.co.nz/properties/sold-residential/manukau-city/papato…)
Last sold 1999 for $190k. This sale $1.351 million. Annual rate of return: 8.16%. This place did "double every ten years". But not the house. Just the land - Mixed Housing Urban zone means big terraced houses or possibly 4 standalones can be build on its 1024 sqm section. Article says it sold to an "investor", a.k.a. a land bwanker. I'd guess they'll do an internal makeover and rent, while the land appreciates further while waiting for it to be re-zoned even higher, thereby maximising their tax free capital gains.
So folks, that's how it is done. i.e. Buy the land, spend nothing on the house, while growing older and older for 25 years. And the new owner will land bwank thereby removing the land from the available pool of developable land and forcing up the price of land ... All for the tax free capital gain.
Anyone else see a problem with this market dynamic?
You didn't even bother to read the first two sentences??
"More than 50,000 property investors are losing money on their rentals, Inland Revenue data shows.
"Information released under the Official Information Act shows that there were 53,350 taxpayers who reported negative rental income..."
Didn’t realise it was a clickable link, thought it was related to this article.
But yes. High rates which were (yes already past tense) temporary being the culprit is not rocket science. Enjoyed profits in the past few years anyway. Basically becomes Irrelevant with long term capital gains in any case. It’s all about the bigger picture, and during the journey every investment underperforms at some point. One would be naive to think otherwise.
Iceman, what is actually right with you? For months you've wrongly assumed we rent, only to discover the opposite as of 27-years ago. Upon being called out, you vanished like a coward. It's obvious you look down on renters in general as if you have some superior finances. Your attitude towards others is gross.
Do you honestly expect others to respect your advice and take you seriously??
You admitted to renting and having “invested” in term deposits. Vanished? I comment on here frequently enough mate, you’re a serial liar and I just don’t worry about your little opinions.
Im not sure where you got the “look down on renters” nonsense, those are just your insecurities mate, don’t put that on others.
You have no real experience in any of this and add nonsense comments like the above to further embarrass yourself. All you know to do is react to every headline preaching gloom being your short sided narrow minded person you are. We know you’re fretting about your only investments which are term deposits as you’ll essentially be making permanent losses there.
Get a life and quit the nonsense comments.
You do realise not everyone is like you , who has time to go back and pull up old comments of mine and paste them into current articles.
How are you such an embarrassing child when you’re in your 50s? Don’t you have term deposits your need to refix at shitty rates and then pay interest on “profits”?
Iceman, prove you're not a liar. If you have the time to post "nonsense", you have the time to look. Spoiler alert: you will need eternity as no such post exists.
"Don’t you have term deposits your need to refix at shitty rates and then pay interest on “profits”?"
Much like your advice, that does not make sense. We receive interest on our TD's which (after tax) then gets reinvested to earn more interest. That's how a TD works.
Apparently low risk investment = depression.
Speculating on negative cash flow, overpriced property based on any historically accepted measure = non-depressing.
And yet on the property investor pages and listening to safeashouses it’s those who are invested in property not in low risk investments like bonds/TDs who are suffering a great deal and sound depressed.
How bizarre.
Not exactly. His first post hinted at an uncanny coincidence between Iceman and yourself getting upticks, which he's since clarified to insinuate you have multiple accounts and are padding both yours and Iceman's posts.
You know, the sort of ploy you use when your views can't be substantiated with fact or reason. Cast a bit of shade, misdirect conversation towards the ridiculous, and generally bog discussion down to the level of tediousness.
Iceman's highly strung up, he's got a few things going on in his life that we're not privy to. Interest.co is his anonymous rant forum, where he e-thugs on commentators who say things that align with the very problems he's battling with.
It's why when sahib posted that link about 50k landlords in the red, he was preparing to go nuclear as a way to release his frustrations on a physical representation of one of his problems. Rage induced tunnel vision kicked in when he read the anchor text and didn't realize it was an actual hyperlink.
Yeah surprisingly he got quite a few upticks so there must be quite a few people in the same degree of distress he is in.
ie the property investor types are on the edge/struggling a lot, and telling everyone now is the time to buy..
Why would they do this? Because they want FHB and other investors to climb into the market to save their own poor investment decisions.
I have the time Iceman and it didn't take too much of it, can you let the RP renting thing go now? I do remember RP making a comment that he/they rented a one bedroom before he bought though so maybe you're remembering that too. (Correct me if I'm wrong RP about renting the one bedroom, my memory could be incorrect).
by Retired-Poppy | 27th Nov 23, 3:16pm
FHBtears, this is indeed a sad state of affairs our country finds itself in. It sickens me reading the various posts from the vested arguing how property is currently a great investment yet, for those who, like yourself, want to purchase a home to live in, it's prohibitive, not only price wise but interest rate wise.
I am a one home owner of 26-years and would very much like to see house prices free fall to a point where it increases our home ownership rate significantly.
"Information released under the Official Information Act shows that there were 53,350 taxpayers who reported negative rental income..."
With higher mortgage interest rates, the number of taxpayers reporting tax losses has declined by over 50% since 2020.
A newly released paper, prepared for the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development Minister, Megan Woods, in December, said that 37 per cent of property investors, or 107,530 taxpayers, reported an annual loss to Inland Revenue – meaning the rent received did not cover their costs. The average loss was $9000.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/300288828/govt-crunches-numbe…
Also note that more will be cashflow negative due to principal payments on P&I financing.
I know I shouldn't be, but I'm surprised at how little discussion this Ministry report got.
Let's be clear, residential property 'investors' making cash losses year after year can only be banking on one thing: a big untaxed capital gain.
(That statement won't be obvious to some. Let me explain. The losses can be carried over to offset tax on profits in future years. The bigger the losses. The longer they last to offset tax. And no tax get's paid. It's even possible they last until the property is sold as their owners can no longer manage them. At which point IRD should be asking, "why did you 'invest' in the first place?". The only believable answer is they were there for the capital gain. At which point the intent to profit from the capital gain is clearly established and they should be taxed on it.)
Remember one tax filer could own multiple residential properties.
In 2021, over 22,100 properties were owned by a small group of owners.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability/30041526…
I know of one non owner occupier owner who owned over 60 residential properties. They were promoting residential real estate investment whilst at the same time selling their entire portfolio in 2020.
What's driven the increase in homeownership, and can it last?
Stats NZ reported on Thursday that the number of households who own their home increased in the latest census.
It was the first lift in ownership recorded since 1991 - 66 percent of households are homeowners, up from 64.5 percent in 2018.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/529882/what-s-driven-the-increase-i…
Rising interest rates makes housing investment less attractive to investors from a cashflow (and capital gains) perspective.
Simultaneously it has caused prices to drop meaning deposits saved by FHBs go further (smaller mortgages required = less debt risk/interest rate risk). Those who buy now have significantly smaller mortgages than those who purchased a few years ago - they will become mortgage free years before those who purchased before them and the total interest paid will be significantly less = much better investment decision.
I remember people arguing with me on here a few years ago that rising interest rates wouldn’t help FHBs whatsoever- that it would make it impossible for them to buy - I argued otherwise. Investors couldn’t ever perceive prices falling significantly, nor would it appear they want FHBs to gain home ownership rights because that removes another renter from the pool (ie someone who can pay their rental mortgage) and it’s one less property available for them to buy to turn into a rental for their own gain!
The self interest of this type of thinking is perverse and not good for a healthy society.
Those who buy now have significantly smaller mortgages than those who purchased a few years ago - they will become mortgage free years before those who purchased before them and the total interest paid will be significantly less = much better investment decision.
Once you factor in years of principle paid vs mortgage paid, the equations become very muddy. You have to essentially cherry pick your sample of buyers with someone who bought at the absolute peak tippy top of the hot market who also got burned on a short term low interest rate that near tripled overnight.
But clearly if the RBNZ keeps on cutting, the time to buy is now. Sooner or later you have to pull the pin, you cannot afford to just keep on waiting. If you currently have the required deposit available, then you should be currently very active in the market looking to buy. You have until Christmas if the cuts keep on coming, lock in a 6 month mortgage.
Zwifter in all honesty, I thought your call that Aug 23 was the final chance to buy was way premature. Fast forward to now, if a FHB has a substantial deposit that mitigates most well thought out downsides, then lowball offers only. A 10% deposit is no-where near enough and besides banks charge additional interest. It's a known fact that the amount of FHB's getting across the line on just 10% deposits is steadily rising. That alone is disturbing.
Anyway, given the deteriorating backdrop and stretched affordability, what's the hurry - why the rush? Oh, that's right, house prices are about to jump back up to where they were..........
If you cannot see it then I cannot really be bothered explaining it to you. You cannot retrospectively buy a house mate so pre election was the best time to buy, now is the 2nd best time to buy, that's how it works. Will there be another great time to buy in the future ? sure there will but the chances get less and less over time that it will be better than today. Give it 2 or 3 years and chances are that prices will never be as low as they are now, that's just the way it works basically house prices have done nothing but increase in New Zealand over the last 50 years. The first house we bought in this country cost $19K and now its worth $1.5M AND it was on such a big section they just sub divided it recently leaving the original house.
pre election was the best time to buy, now is the 2nd best time to buy, that's how it works.
Ha-ha-ha-ha :) - adjusted for inflation and ownership cost's on a still depreciating asset over this time - that's just priceless!
Again, given stretched affordability, there is no hurry. There exists a glut of overpriced homes. Aside from job insecurity, that's a prime reason why inventory is bloated and house prices are falling.
You know if you’ve won an argument with Zwifter or Iceman when the call you ‘mate’ or ‘champ’ in their response.
It’s kiwi slang used to feel superior to someone when on the inside you feel extremely insecure about yourself or your position.
Why else would you call somebody you are arguing with ‘mate’. Instead of just making a justified point you have to feel superior to your opponent by patronising them with a false pretence of friendship.
I find Kiwi males to be a strange bunch (having travelled and lived abroad a fair amount).
Thanks for your input, mate. Yes - I did and after giving it further thought "Bud" can either mean one of two things. Either Pa1nter is my close friend or I believe he will grow to be a flower.
On reflection, it's probably not appropriate. Pa1nter will no doubt argue to the contrary.
I didn't know this about the use of mate, in the UK the use of mate is more a call to reasonableness, like when someone has argued themselves into a hole "seriously mate?" it gives them an out to take a moment and know that they can back down safely. Sounds like champ is similar in UK and NZ, it's used in an ironic dismissive way when you've given up trying to argue.
Learnt something new about kiwi culture today.
If the RBNZ keeps cutting then it means the economy is in dire shit. It will not be the time to buy. Prices will (in my view) likely keep falling as the RBNZ cuts because more businesses will be failing/defaulting, unemployment rising, risk of deflation increasing - all of these things are very bad for asset prices.
2020 and the COVID response may have confused you somewhat about how economies and asset prices really work in tandem. Dropping rates means economy is getting worse = no economic growth = headwinds for asset prices/cash flows.
The time to buy will be 6-12 months after RBNZ stop dropping rates.
And if you are correct and house prices jump again significantly then my suggestion to FHB would be to leave the country permanently as you are being setup to be bagholders for a completely dysfunctional country/society/economic settings and policy.
Some chuckles from that one, I_O.
"If the RBNZ keeps cutting then it means the economy is in dire shit. "
Or you can look at it as I do, "The economy is in dire shit, so the RBNZ has to keep cutting." If two years of near zero growth, rising unemployment, etc isn't 'dire shit' then I don't what is. ;-)
"The time to buy will be 6-12 months after RBNZ stop dropping rates."
(Said in Admiral Akbar voice: "It's a [ponzi] trap!")
I think you meant: The time to buy is when yields are sufficient to deliver one's target return on investment. ;-)
Dire shit is growth with a negative sign in front, unemployment significantly higher than where we are at present and more business failure.
You know we’re in dire shit when National decide that it’s time to start spending. Ie they reverse course on their election promises.
We are not there yet.
I've been in since 1990.
The Govt have done their best to kill the golden goose over the past twenty years. To a large degree they finally succeeded. No doubt that ethic will continue in future years. Essentially it's like going into a long term business with constantly changing Govt policy.
There is still much to gain from property, but that certainty as it was, is far less now.
Still feel it's a time game, better to get into while you are young. The worst thing you could do is enter retirement carry large (or any) debt. Don't get into property when you are anywhere near approaching retirement.
For 20 years I've been hearing people make cases for holding off, because they thing some government policy is going to magically make it more affordable.
The inverse has occured. National are finally making noises about fixing housing supply, but like any government idea it'll be long in the tooth and not comprehensive enough when it arrives.
Solid advice, generally. I'm planning on buying in the next year or two, as I hit 50, but will go in with a minimal mortgage. I save more than house prices appreciate (pandemic period was nearly an exception). Work/live overseas so no drastic need for a house in NZ yet.
Can this possibly be right?
I get the Herald each Saturday, and there's a column today that says, "Car sales on the road to recovery".
"It was the third consecutive month of improvement for the new vehicle market, which has faced considerable challenges in 2024, MIA said."
I keep reading here that we're all on the brink of economic ruin and a crashing property market - which is obviously all a figment of the imagination of some posters.
I don't have the Herald, so I can only go off the first paragraph/Google results. Here's what I read:
September's sales reflected a 12.8% improvement over the average monthly result for the year to date.
But year-to-date registrations are down 16.1% (18,057 units) compared with the same period in 2023 and 23.5% lower than in 2022
The problem with many figures of the past few years is COVID distortion. There were massive shortages for vehicles amoung other things, so we got big sales numbers posted as inventory arrived.
Probably better to compare most things with 2019 and a guess what their natural movements might have been for the coming years.
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