The housing market's disastrous summer

Property / news

Housing sales down, prices down, listings down, stock levels up as properties sit on the market unsold

14th Mar 23, 9:01am by Greg Ninness

The housing market is having a disastrous summer with sales falling through the floor, prices on a slippery slope and a mountain of unsold properties sitting on the market.

February is usually one of the biggest months of the year for residential real estate but the latest figures from the Real Estate Institute of NZ show that just 3964 residential properties were sold in February, down 31.1% compared to the 5750 properties sold in February last year.

In the country's largest market, Auckland, sales were down 41.4% compared to February last year.

As sales decline stock levels are ballooning, with the REINZ recording 29,083 residential properties for sale across the country at the end of February, up 5813 (+25%) compared to the same time last year.

That increase in stock levels came in spite of the fact that the number of new listings received in February was down by 29.5% compared to February last year.

That is also reflected in the length of time it is taking to achieve a sale, with the median days to sell stretching out to 60 in February, up by 18 days compared to February last year.

The median selling price was $762,000 in February, down by 13.9% compared to February last year, with substantial annual falls in Auckland -15.2% and Wellington -20.6% (see the chart below for the regional figures).

The REINZ's House Price Index, which adjusts for differences in the mix of sales each month, is now down by 14.2% compared to February last year.

In Auckland the HPI was down 17.1% compared to a year ago.

The graphs below show the regional trends in median prices and sales volumes since 1992.

The comment stream on this article is now closed.

Volumes sold - REINZ

Select chart tabs

Source: REINZ

Median price - REINZ

Select chart tabs

Source: REINZ

Median house price growth

Select chart tabs

Source: REINZ

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178 Comments

by Averageman | 14th Mar 23, 10:47am 1678744045

The stupidity of the 2% lolly scramble is unwinding...fast.

The US banking system is getting a lesson in liquidity right now. If you cannot exit incorrectly marked assets (over valued) you can be wiped out in 24 hours when depositors act in mass. Death by cellphone transfer.

Asset buyers vanish, and rates continue to climb destroying price leverage. Unfolding today in a street near you.

by Miguel | 14th Mar 23, 9:07am 1678738062

Disastrous? Sounds like a much needed rebalancing to me

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 9:44am 1678740255

Not disastrous for everyone of course, but it's disastrous for:

FHB's as affordability is at all time lows due to the high interest rates

Investors whose cashflow is turning deeply negative

Any professions related to property transactions with much less work (agents, lawyers, valuers, maintenance…)

Sellers in a must well situation due to divorce, ill health, relocation etc...

Any home owners who have to renew their loans this year at much, much higher interest rates

Highly leveraged house owners who see their equity disappear with the worry of being in negative equity

by Slapheid | 14th Mar 23, 10:17am 1678742259

I also wonder how many retirees have reversed-mortgaged their home only to find the equity evaporating and the interest rate cranking upwards...

by Ngrrk | 14th Mar 23, 10:19am 1678742397

Yes, it would be interesting to get some data around this.

by GV 27 | 14th Mar 23, 10:36am 1678743377

Worth keeping in mind too when someone suggests we use a land tax to slug Granny for living in a home outright but kindly offering them the option of settling upon sale - which is forcing someone to take out a reverse mortgage effectively for the pleasure of living in their own home.

by mfd | 14th Mar 23, 10:50am 1678744217

I would expect (and hope for) a similar arrangement to Council Rates at the moment. The elderly can choose to defer payment until after death/selling a property if they don't have the cashflow, and the Council takes a chunk of the sale/inheritance.

by kiwikidsnz | 14th Mar 23, 11:56am 1678748202

Or TOPs socialist envy theft of private property could be stopped.

by sheriff_of_nothing | 14th Mar 23, 12:48pm 1678751320

Most developed nations, regardless of socialist/capitalist leanings, have some combination of Property Tax, Inheritance Tax, or comprehensive CGT.

NZ is the outlier here.

by GV 27 | 14th Mar 23, 12:55pm 1678751754

Other nations also have much lower housing costs, much more generous tax treatments on super schemes, huge carve-outs or roll-over relief on inheritance taxes so that they have a limited impact on people who aren't plutocrats and adjust their tax rates more than once a decade.

If you just point at taxes and say "other people have them, we should too" without looking at the context or details, it just become an exercise in extracting money from people in as many different ways as possible. The problem is people can only live off the bits they have left over - in which case the details become somewhat important.

by sit23 | 14th Mar 23, 7:42pm 1678776140

Name one nation doing this that has solved their housing issues.

by rastus1 | 14th Mar 23, 2:59pm 1678759160

..puts hand up to show he doesn't understand.

by kiwikidsnz | 14th Mar 23, 3:37pm 1678761453

"Only by abolishing private property in land and building cheap and hygienic dwellings can the housing problem be solved."

Sound familiar ?

VL Lenin

by mfd | 14th Mar 23, 4:02pm 1678762948

Sounds a long way from what anyone in NZ is proposing. Except the second half, but are you really suggesting building decent and affordable houses is the exclusive preserve of Communists?

by nigelh | 14th Mar 23, 12:49pm 1678751388

Many grannies live in mansions and for this purpose I'll lower my own mansion definition to >150m2. Grannie needs to sell up and live in an 80m2 or smaller place.

by Nzdan | 14th Mar 23, 2:15pm 1678756548

I live very close to half a dozen schools/preschools, in an area with houses on decent sized sections. In my daily walk to and from school with my daughter, I rarely see any other children walking from the surrounding properties. Instead, it's a flurry of double parked cars for a couple of blocks.

Based on observations when walking the dog most evenings/weekends, is that a very high number of these properties are "empty nests". A difficult conversation to have though. "As much as you love this house you've owned all your life, we need to you move on". Certainly highlights inefficiencies though, putting aside emotional factors it just doesn't make sense to have families living kilometers away from the school meanwhile a pensioner couple can jump the fence and they're at the primary school gate.

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 2:19pm 1678756786

Glendowie... people love it don't move out.

by ACB | 14th Mar 23, 3:28pm 1678760923

These things move in cycles. Once the oldies move on, young families move in (assuming affordable). School rolls expand then decline as you can't expect people to sell up the minute their kids leave home..

by interesting1234 | 17th Mar 23, 8:34am 1678995279

"But I worked hard and scrounged to get where I am" they say. Ok gran, I'm sure the 6 houses you own and have made multitudes of capital gain as well as rental yield from for decades due to favourable economic conditions can be classed as 'hard work'. More like take on debt, sit back and at your popcorn while the money rolls in

by GV 27 | 14th Mar 23, 3:27pm 1678760822

Yea I'm not sure the elderly living in family homes they've lived in for decades is a scourge of society to the extent it warrants tilting the entire tax system to the point where they can no longer afford to live close to family, friends, medical care or their extended support network.

"Come on kids, it's family Christmas at Nana's this year. Yes, it will be twenty of us inside the an apartment the size of a council issue wheely bin because nigelh thinks Nana is a parasite for wanting to live in the home she's lived in for decades and needs to be taken down a peg or two. So no complaining this year, okay?"

It's funny how people's idea of 'fairness' in the tax system seems to involve taking money from people to give it to people who won't work while designating those who are too old to work as economic drains to be taxed out of sight and out of mind with as much zeal as one can muster.

by agnostium | 14th Mar 23, 5:14pm 1678767244

Stawman.

No-one is forcing Grandma to move, she can stay in the area in a smaller house. All 4 of my grandparents did this.

Having a massive house that can accommodate 20 people just so you can have a family get together once a year when there are families living in cars is peak privilege.

by kiwikidsnz | 14th Mar 23, 3:35pm 1678761338

Granny says "if you can read my Private Property sign you're within range"

by lowercase capitalist | 15th Mar 23, 9:27am 1678825633

Grannies hands shake so much that her handwriting is illegible. I doubt shes a great shot.

by mfd | 14th Mar 23, 10:48am 1678744114

You can find some data in Heartland's most recent results, as of December 31st 2022 - they are a (the?) major provider. Weighted average LVR for reverse mortgages in NZ was 19.7%. 97.7% of loans had an LVR of under 40%. No loans with an LVR of over 60%.

These mortgages are quite conservative - I think a maximum LVR of 30% when issued. I haven't read the fine print, but I believe the worst that can happen is there's no equity left in the house to pass on to the kids. A great way to release some money from a property to actually enjoy life, if you don't want to downsize or move to a cheaper region.

by ACB | 14th Mar 23, 3:26pm 1678760786

And what Heartland Bank's exposure is to declining collateral.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 10:38am 1678743534

I've been thinking the same re the bank of mum and dad. If M&D refinance $100k as a deposit for their kids house, that is likely now gone and their remaining equity fallen as well. Hit twice as hard. Fortunately in MSM many claimed they never expected the $100k to be paid back, but they may have different feelings about it now they're paying interest on it.

by Thats All Folks | 14th Mar 23, 10:59am 1678744779

Awww diddums.

Stop framing it as bad for FHB's in a lame attempt to create FOMO, it's a godsend. All they have to do is NOTHING and get out of the way while it all rapidly falls over. Fantastic for FHB's.

Amazing you think anyone would find investors falling over disastrous.

But I do agree, those who genuinely just wanted a home or fell into unfortunate circumstances is a real shame.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 11:08am 1678745332

I imagine finally for many (trumpism for sure) renters things are beginning to pick up - rents down in real terms due to increasing wages. Money in the bank saving for a deposit increasing as a % equity of their future home at an alarming rate. Their concern is purely food on the table at this point and the rest will take care of itself.

by Thats All Folks | 14th Mar 23, 11:15am 1678745755

Agreed.

It's going to be interesting watching the affluent underwater owners switch positions with those who were once considered lower class renters.

Popcorn.

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 1:51pm 1678755062

Wishful thinking.

by Thats All Folks | 14th Mar 23, 2:12pm 1678756323

I recall dismissive naysayer comments like this in 2021.....

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 2:15pm 1678756530

You don't understand, affluent people are not affluent because of external circumstances, affluent people are affluent because they adjust to circumstances and make the best out of them.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 2:19pm 1678756743

Much like high earning renters making the most of a crippling housing market?

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 2:40pm 1678758058

Sort of, but not really Malamah. Counting on the housing market going down, is indeed depending on external circumstances. On the other hand, selling a house and then rent, that is adjusting to circumstances and making the best out of them.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 3:20pm 1678760439

lol ok. “Renters won’t be more affluent than us if we ARE the renters!”

Solid plan. Hope the population is taking notes.

by Thats All Folks | 14th Mar 23, 3:56pm 1678762611

Lol he's incredulous at the idea of renters buying up over valued shacks for half price.....

by Thats All Folks | 14th Mar 23, 3:52pm 1678762373

Oh but we do understand Yvil.

So you're saying that purchasing a house in the knowledge that not only NZ's but the global economy /assets are caving is a smart move when you could rent and build cash reserves while the market demonstrably continues to destroy itself (rapidly) and buy at the bottom is not?

Affluent people are affluent because they make informed probability based decisions at the right time. (In / Out of markets)

Right now, betting against debt, there has never been a smarter probability based move, especially for those disenfranchised FHB's.

Don't be mad just because the music stopped and there are no chairs left.....

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 5:06pm 1678766762

No, that's absolutely not what I'm saying at all. Maybe it's what you think I mean, but you just really, don't understand. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

by Thats All Folks | 14th Mar 23, 5:25pm 1678767913

Please enlighten us then.

by agnostium | 14th Mar 23, 5:22pm 1678767756

What a crock of shit Yvil. There are plenty of people who are affluent because they inherited so much money it's almost impossible for them to fuck up enough to lose it all and stop being affluent. The affluent love to say they gained their wealth through hard graft but luck plays a very important part.

It is definitely the case that if they hadn't worked hard they wouldn't have become affluent but it is also equally the case that someone can work just as hard or even harder and not become affluent.

It is a well known psychological phenomenon that people attribute their successes on their own efforts and failures on bad luck.

I think maybe you have an overinflated opinion of your own abilities and project that onto others.

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 8:37pm 1678779463

Thats funny I inherited 7% of my wealth, there are IMHO way more self made out there.

by Kohukohunui | 14th Mar 23, 6:48pm 1678772880

affluent people are not affluent because of external circumstances, affluent people are affluent because they adjust to circumstances and make the best out of them.

I think you'd count learning to read and write, a healthy home life, inheritance as external circumstance?

Have a look at the paper linked to from https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2020/11/30/how-the-rich-get-richer.

by tuisbest | 14th Mar 23, 1:02pm 1678752162

Amazing you think anyone would find investors falling over disastrous.

And the same for agents and other ticket clippers! 😂

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 1:48pm 1678754919

I said, it's disastrous for these people, do you not understand how this is different from you, failing to see how it can be hard for others?

It's a sad mentality, "I don't care about other people who are different from me, let them suffer"! (as long as I'm ok)

by tuisbest | 14th Mar 23, 10:32pm 1678786370

I think it is disastrous for a society if educated people leave valuable professions to become real estate agents. I'm thinking of all the articles we've been bombarded with over the past few years of teachers, nurses and even one doctor (I remember the guy being a surgeon who also had a Master in Health Science) who became real estate agents, apparently with the aim of reaping huge financial rewards in a role where skill, intelligence and education are certainly not prerequisites.

Would it be awful if real estate agents need to start thinking about getting themselves 'real jobs' in future? Nah! Fingers crossed at least some end up in jobs that will actually benefit society.

And cry me a river if investors need to put in some honest work in future if they want to follow their obsession of 'getting ahead' of everyone else.

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 12:21pm 1678749682

"Must Well" WTFs that . Can't spell, Gramarly, moron , idiot, blah blah blah!

yvil how does it feel?😂😂😂

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 1:53pm 1678755225

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 2:06pm 1678756017

I can't hear you bro!

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 2:17pm 1678756625

Good!

(also I'm not your bro)

by tomjones_04 | 14th Mar 23, 2:56pm 1678759006

Whilst Yvil and I haven’t seen eye to eye over the years… I don’t like to see disrespect aimed at him like this. He’s a decent commentator (as are most).

by Chairman Moa | 14th Mar 23, 5:05pm 1678766746

And handsome!

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 5:06pm 1678766795

Thanks Tom.

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 10:55pm 1678787756

Tom Tom Tom, get in the fame .

Yvil aka evil, Bagged me first regarding a few spelling mistakes and my grammar. I'm just returning the compliment... with interest!

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 10:51pm 1678787460

Yvil you're right...you're my bitch!

by interesting1234 | 17th Mar 23, 8:39am 1678995578

You must be having a hard time at the moment given the level of pettiness coming out on this article. I hope your life improves soon

by tothepoint | 14th Mar 23, 12:33pm 1678750425

Those who were over-zealous during the previous housing market upswing must accept the consequences. Allowing oneself to become intoxicated by the lure of cheap money (as in 2020/21) means that, inevitably, a period of hardship will follow.

It’s called market discipline - which is a normal/healthy market process. There’s nothing new about.

If you can’t learn from other people’s mistakes, then at least try to learn from your own mistakes.

TTP

by HouseMouse | 14th Mar 23, 12:40pm 1678750805

My how you have changed your narrative 😂😂😂

by tothepoint | 14th Mar 23, 1:45pm 1678754726

Hi MouseHouse,

Where have you been the last 6/7 years?

I’ve contributed umpteen versions of the above post to this blog.

Clearly, there’s not too much hope for the likes of people like you. 🙄

TTP

by HouseMouse | 14th Mar 23, 2:13pm 1678756387

😂🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

by Solid_Granite | 14th Mar 23, 5:22pm 1678767721

Looks like we've seen the end of "Be Quick". The end of an era.

by Rob Reid | 14th Mar 23, 5:45pm 1678769119

I loved Be Quick - we all owned it, in the end.

It's still relevant, but now encourages the opposite behaviour.

by Slapheid | 15th Mar 23, 9:43am 1678826582

Hopefully CWBW's "Basement Boys" are beavering away on a new meme for us as we speak!

by HouseMouse | 14th Mar 23, 2:32pm 1678757575

I have sympathy for the others you list, but zero sympathy for the investors / professions.

Anyone who was on to it, prudent and ‘savvy’ should have known 1-2 years ago that this crash was coming.

If you were a stretched investor you should have sold.

If you were one of those professions you should have saved a decent chunk of your huge profit for the rainy day that was always going to come.

by morepork | 14th Mar 23, 4:52pm 1678765967

FHB unaffordability is due to high interest rates, not due to house prices coming down. In fact house prices coming down makes them more affordable for the same interest rate

by Blackbeard | 14th Mar 23, 10:44am 1678743886

Exactly. If fruit and veggies ever come down we don't call it 'Disastrous'. Same should apply to housing - prices come down, we should be relieved, something to celebrate, as it's a win against the cost of living.

by donny11 | 14th Mar 23, 10:49am 1678744153

High priced veggies mean the veggie growers make more money. This creates a wealth effect as these veggie growers now spend money into other parts of the economy creating wealth for everyone.

by Richardfromauckland | 14th Mar 23, 10:57am 1678744625

donny, donny, donny.

by Blackbeard | 14th Mar 23, 12:10pm 1678749029

If someone mentions trickle down or wealth effect again, I'm jumping off a bridge. Fruit farmers can't even offer a decent wage to attract fruit pickers, instead, go and grizzle to the government to import cheap labour. Everyone knows the wealthier someone gets the tighter they get, profit goes straight into asset accumulation (property, land etc). The wealth effect is total BS.

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 12:17pm 1678749467

Trickle down, wealth effect.

Make it a low bridge, I don't want you to hurt yourself

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 12:54pm 1678751689

trickle down only works in a multi deck sheep transporter......

by False economies | 14th Mar 23, 12:51pm 1678751486

Some German guy who lived in London in the 1800s wrote a very long book about how the system sucked wealth upwards not trickled it down...

by Roger the dodger | 15th Mar 23, 7:18am 1678817892

In my experience the wealth effect is not about paying the same people more.

Instead they do tend to want to scale up, employ more people but pay them the same or less.

Not sure if its a good thing or not, just what I have observed.

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 12:38pm 1678750683

Not. They are smart and save money for rainy day!... Unlike Labour!

by lowercase capitalist | 14th Mar 23, 12:59pm 1678751992

You think that the government should keep a portion of taxpayer money saved for a rainy day?

by mfd | 14th Mar 23, 1:02pm 1678752159

We do. Well, Labour do. The Nats suspended payments at great cost to our future selves.

https://www.nzsuperfund.nz/

by Matt_B | 14th Mar 23, 1:59pm 1678755562

Labour reinstated at a far lower rate % to GDP compared to when National stopped it in 2010.

Was 1.2% of GDP in last full year (2009). Now has ranged between 0.2-07% of GDP since 2018.currently 0.7%

Labour would need to find at least another 1.5 billion to get it back up to the same level as 2009

National could have got it back making payment after GFC earlier

by WestieAJ | 14th Mar 23, 2:17pm 1678756669

Wonder if they have reworked the burn rate on that fund on the basis of yesterdays lolly fest. I am sure previous projections to date were based on 0-2% CPI.

How long before there is political consensus on raising the retirement age to 67 and gradually to 70?

by Nzdan | 14th Mar 23, 2:18pm 1678756692

$17b+ and rising annual non-means tested superannuation spend suggests that should have happened 40 - 50 years ago.

by makechange | 14th Mar 23, 4:57pm 1678766268

Wealth effect only works when money has velocity. If the additional revenue gets siphoned off into an investment portfolio or bank account, velocity is zero and there is no local wealth effect

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 12:36pm 1678750586

Rebalancing and re alignment and engine rebuild....

Recession!!! Soon to be depression!

Labour are about to make the rich richer and the poor poorer!

Nice one 🤠

$ell buy $ell buy... $$$$$$🙏👏✔️

by Caughtinthemiddle | 14th Mar 23, 9:08am 1678738080

Looking forward to the HPI data and report. I thought 2022 would be the big losses and 2023would see the bottom of the market and some stagnation. 2022 is now looking like the aperitif with the main course still to come.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 9:21am 1678738864

Both can be viewed here

by Caughtinthemiddle | 14th Mar 23, 10:01am 1678741304

Thank you Malamah!

by King of the whiners | 14th Mar 23, 9:14am 1678738457

Wunderbar!

by whakahokia mai | 14th Mar 23, 9:19am 1678738782

I wonder what proportion of sellers have recently had their fixed mortgage payments increased to unsustainable levels to the extent they have to sell? They are the real victims of circumstances. Losing their deposits and perhaps still owing the bank after sale. One would think these people are the tip of the spear so to speak when it comes to price setting.

by donny11 | 14th Mar 23, 10:18am 1678742315

Probably about 1% at current interest rates. However with 2 million homes in the country that is still 20,000 on the market that have to sell.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 10:29am 1678742959

~40,000 listings on trademe, clearing at ~4,000/mo. 10 months of inventory. If you add 10 to 20k listings which have to sell, new pricing will be found.

by fortunr | 14th Mar 23, 9:20am 1678738830

This is just the beginning. There is a long way down to go before houses in NZ get down to a sustainable level in synch with economic fundamentals.

2023 is going to be the year of the great rebalance of the NZ economy away for parasitic housing speculation and into the real economy.

Bring it on.

by GV 27 | 14th Mar 23, 9:25am 1678739132

You need people to be able to spend in a 'real economy'. They can't do that if they're underwater on their houses and wallets have been slammed shut.

Not to say it shouldn't happen, but it's something that needs to be engineered, as opposed to just leaving recent and new FHBs as bag-holders while the investors and others who piled into the market get to sell down, samp the market and then get the benefit of chunky term deposit returns while ordinary families flounder. That's a bad deal. We should be smarter than that.

by Kate | 14th Mar 23, 10:04am 1678741450

I agree. When the GFC hit in the US, many people who hadn't missed a single mortgage payment were foreclosed on simply due to being underwater. Our government does really need a plan for this. In the US, there was no government plan - foreclosed houses were re-sold to other banks and vulture capitalists. The case study is there for everyone to see. I'm hoping NZ learns from it and is 'smarter than that'.

There is no social benefit in adding yet another family to an already overcrowded demand-side rental market.

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 10:14am 1678742043

Thats because banks did not own the MBS in the USA, they had been sold off balance sheet. NZ situation is very different with the vast vast majority of mortgage lending here being kept on balance sheet. It's not in the interest of a bank here to close a capable payer out at a loss..... though it may be in the interests of a borrower to close out at a loss if the future payments do not make financial sense.

by Averageman | 14th Mar 23, 10:45am 1678743949

In NZ in 87 the banks knew a bunch of the speculative would never be able to pay anything, so choose to shoot those underwater that could pay something. Even if you were making your payments. This made events much much worse at that time.

In the GFC it didn't matter if you were underwater as long as you met payments. A very different approach.

As always timing is everything. This wave of stupid debt has been building for some time. Every lever available since the GFC has been pulled to avoid reality. The US is more or less bankrupt, giving it very few options to continue to avoid reality. Accordingly a return to debt needing to be supported by income is inevitable.

That....is a long way back for the speculative.

by Rob Reid | 14th Mar 23, 11:36am 1678746964

I've had enough of engineering - it's been a shit show. Give me chaos.

by Chaosinflesh | 14th Mar 23, 9:33am 1678739625

When you look at the history of other bubbles unwinding over the last 30 years, you see they all ended with price-to-income ratios below 3x household incomes. Applying this to NZ, and assuming 7% income inflation for the next 2 years, would give us:

Nationwide: average hh income ~$127k, DTI 3 => average price 381k, vs current 762k or an almost exact 50% further fall expected.

Auckland: average income ~$183k, DTI 3 => average price 540, vs current 1009k or 47% further fall expected.

Will we be different? Only time will tell.

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 9:44am 1678740261

My guess is that prices will settle somewhere between $540k and $1m.

While I agree the 3x income figure is historically about right - my view is that our perceptions have changed and banks are now much more comfortable with 4x income or even more.

Enriching bankers & those with mega-money (but not the ordinary savers) has now become the 'new normal'.

For people not to fall into this debt trap we need people to fully understand that a) 30 year mortgages are bad and b) maxing out what banks will lend you based upon the mortgage repayments you can afford is daft.

Use the Full Function Mortgage Calculator (https://www.interest.co.nz/calculators/full-function-mortgage-calculator) and people will get this ... Eventually. This stuff should be taught at school!

by Chaosinflesh | 14th Mar 23, 9:51am 1678740689

Agreed.

And to be fair, I should've probably applied it over a longer term, as most bubbles took 4-5 years before they bottomed out, which gives more room for wage inflation to arrest the falls.

Though 7% pa is a stonkingly high wage inflation.

by donny11 | 14th Mar 23, 10:22am 1678742543

It really depends on the trajectory of interest rates. If the OCR hits 7 or 8%, then I can't see how house prices stay above 5x the average household income. At the moment we are at 7.53.

by GV 27 | 14th Mar 23, 10:47am 1678744038

Wage inflation is the key. It always has been. We haven't had it before and what we've got now is only just cutting it.

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 10:48am 1678744132

But is "average household income" the right measure to use?

What I mean is that many of the "average households" are happy or forced to rent - and move back in with family.

Once this group is removed the "average household income of those able and looking to buy" increases quite a bit even if the quantity of them is less, and as you say, expands and contracts as i-rates fall and rise.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 11:05am 1678745119

I think this has been true in the past, FHB jumping at the bit to enter the bottom of the market. You only have to write a yield equation to see where the competitive bid lies, and anything above that is fair game for the FHB and OO. At the moment, it really is quite low. Ultimately agree that the average income of buyers will be higher than the national average. Looking at current statistics, the average income of buyers is increasing at a rate much faster than wage inflation, so we're still in "exceptionally marginal buyer" territory. I'd expect this to at least flatline or lower before we reach the bottom as more buyers are able to enter the market at lower prices before the yield equation makes sense and investors slowly start to return.

She's a long way off increasing at a rate greater than wage inflation.

by Dale Smith | 14th Mar 23, 12:03pm 1678748638

The use of household income now underestimates the unaffordable measure in the ratio.

For example, a ratio in 1980 of say 3x median household income ratio mainly consisted of one income earner working a 40-hour week.

Now a 3x median income ratio could easily be two working partners working 60 to 80 plus hours a week.

But even at the increased number of hours worked the ratio has blown out to 8 to 10 times the median income multiple, and the average house size has gotten smaller.

by Dale Smith | 14th Mar 23, 11:53am 1678748038

I'm not sure where you get that 'banks are comfortable at 4x median multiple,' given they have been lending to buy up to 10x median income.

Banks would be horrified if it went as low as 4x, given that income inflation won't account as much for the fall in the median income ratio as does the fall in house prices.

Meaning that banks would have lent on mortgages that were now higher than the sale price.

It would trigger all types of financial ratio breaches.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 12:00pm 1678748444

Ask yourself, what would prevent house prices from dropping to that level? Then secondly, is the answer to that within the control of market banks?

Not suggesting that's where things are heading, I have no idea. But the argument that bad things are scary becomes less and less an argument and more and more a statement the more you think about it.

by Dale Smith | 14th Mar 23, 1:02pm 1678752161

My point was to the phase, 'banks would be comfortable at 4x'.

In the right circumstances (and getting more right by the day), then yes it could go to that level. But the economy would have collapsed. Not forgetting of course it was the excess boom that help start the uncontrollable fall.

But the banks are only comfortable when there is a large margin between what you owe them and the sale price, and you pay your ever-increasing debt on time and at the highest rate you can afford.

by BadDragon | 14th Mar 23, 1:52pm 1678755164

Ireland reserve bank cam out withan interesting idea. FHB could have a max DTI ratio of 4.0 - every one else was linited to 3.5.

The only problem here is with new home building costing upwards of 400K + land that would kill the new home market if inflation keeps zooming.

by Smudge02 | 14th Mar 23, 2:13pm 1678756422

we need people to fully understand that a) 30 year mortgages are bad and b) maxing out what banks will lend you based upon the mortgage repayments you can afford is daft.

It is beyond me to comprehend how we ever got into a position where people did not understand this!

by Sluggy | 14th Mar 23, 4:19pm 1678763953

A lot of people forgot, a million bucks is a million bucks. It was all about ability to service a payment. Its now unaffordable, and that 1m is still 1m.

by TheTor | 14th Mar 23, 11:30am 1678746641

It's Debt to income, not house price to income. So unless you think everyone will be borrowing 100% with no deposit you need to adjust your assumed house prices.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 11:51am 1678747916

And within one cycle the term "usable equity" will vanish. Property investors will be those with cash and income to support the debt. Those with no cash deposit will be priced out at the cost of the extra 25% leverage. In short, they will be priced out by FHB with 20% cash down payment and an income to support the 80% debt. The investor using "usable equity" will be taking 100% debt, and needing an income stream to support it.

So the answer lies between the two - while cash poor investors will be locked out, would the FHB compete enough against other FHB to keep prices 25% above what your neighbour the property investor can afford? If not, then the answer is closer to house price to income ratio in a competitive market.

DTI is the maximum they can take out if they choose to, in the past FHB have had to maximize debt if they were to buy, will this be true over the next 5 years?

by Chaosinflesh | 14th Mar 23, 12:27pm 1678750072

1. You're confusing metrics. DTI is a measure of debt servicability, price-to-income is a measure of housing market affordability.

2. As per that, I shouldn't have used 'DTI' in my examples, rather 'PTI' - however, readers will have understood what I meant, and the point of the examples remains unchanged.

Whether any of the local distortions (FHB start grant comes to mind) has any major bearing on where we head up remains to be seen - I'm of the opionion that once speculators are out of the market, it will have neglibile effect as all it does is reduce the savings required to meet deposit requirements. (It creates a potential floor of $100k, but we're not getting there anyway).

Others have also noted there are cultural differences as well, such as the proclivity to work more hours per household. But that produces diminishing returns, and I'd have to guess that we're probably pretty close to the limit already. Besides, price-to-income doesn't care how many hours were worked to achieve that income.

by Whome | 14th Mar 23, 3:15pm 1678760106

REALITY CHECK for all those doomsday merchants, and there are many lurking and constantly blowing their trumpets on here.

You really think another 50% more decline in values... based on the old median myth argument eh?

It's ridiculous that myth still exists.

FACTS beat your emotive cries of another 20-30% fall in prices in Auckland.

Did you know that multiple myth of 3 to 5x MEDIAN incomes and MEDIAN values (ie not averages) was established by the World Bank in the early 1990s when mortgage interest rates were 15% per annum? i.e. not the 7% we now have.

Did you know the median multiple right now in Auckland is 6.9 and fully justified with interest rates at 6.5%.

Property in AUCKLAND is nowhere near as unaffordable as you think, and is actually quite affordable providing you have the 20% deposit.

i.e. AUCKLAND Median price $1,009,000 versus AUCKLAND Median Income $146,000 = 6.9 multiple and at current mortgage rates on a 30 year term repayments are 42% of the median gross income. Banks will lend based on repayments of 40% of gross income...

SO Auckland property is actually quite affordable at current levels.

If you buy an entry level property for say $750,000 and you have the median household income of $146,000 thats only a multiple of 5.13!

and repayments are a measly 31% of median gross income

Auckland average or even median house price $540k... in your dreams!

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 3:19pm 1678760353

Best be quick then.

by Whome | 15th Mar 23, 12:32pm 1678836761

Be quick for what exactly? Typical sidestep comment to attempt to deflect from facts.

I'm not saying rush in and buy but pointing to facts.

by malamah | 15th Mar 23, 2:57pm 1678845433

If you were interested in the facts, you'd be looking at the median income of non homeowners. I think you'd find that to be lower still. The median income of home buyers has sky rocketed, and the number of new mortgages plummeted. We're still in discovery regardless of whether the prices are deemed affordable at some multiple. Aside from that, debt servicing is at it's least affordable still with upside risks on interest rates due to persistent high inflation and account deficits both threatening to debase our currency. Not to mention the impending mortgage roll over, brightline rollover and election. When speculators realise the tenant tax reversal has nothing to do with falling house prices, I wonder what their approach to further investment will be.

We can't print our way out of this one, though we may try. Then the median multiple will become irrelevant as workers will be more interested in putting food on the table than paying off somebody elses retirement. Meanwhile our core funded industries are in turmoil due to being severely underfunded, education, emergency services, healthcare - strikes after strikes because they can't afford this country anymore.

Though I see what you're saying re extreme views, there is very little in the way of support for the housing market looking at the facts. So we will step our way down as a nation until we find out where prices really are.

by Nzdan | 14th Mar 23, 3:46pm 1678761996

Maybe look at past instances where housing markets have crashed, for example Ireland. Why did their house prices fall 60%+ when interest rates only hit 5.51% in 2008?

The mortgage interest rate rose from 3.49% in 2005 to 5.51% in 2008 and then dropped sharply to 3.46% in 2009. Over the following four years the rate gradually increased to 4.36% in 2013 followed by a drop to 3.28% in 2014.

Our first year falls are faster, our interest rate hikes are considerably more. But it couldn't happen here aye?

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-mip/mip2014/economy/….

by gnx | 14th Mar 23, 6:19pm 1678771174

It would be a brave person holding fletchers shares at the moment, or any other listed co relying on housing.

Wait for the job losses to start. It’s going to be very tough for some.

by HouseMouse | 14th Mar 23, 8:24pm 1678778693

Fletchers certainly won’t be immune….

I understand they are preparing some big plan changes, possibly to improve the value of their assets (rural to urban rezoning, value uplift)

by Whome | 15th Mar 23, 12:51pm 1678837883

Did I say it couldn't happen here?

For more on the Ireland property bubble see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubble

"The introduction of the single currency (Euro), with European Central Bank interest rates being lower than what national interest rates would have been had Ireland not joined the Euro, meant that those buying property were encouraged to borrow larger amounts of money... Over time, the scale of residential mortgage debt reached a proportion that greatly concerned the Irish government because of its effects on the Republic's economy. The increasing cost of property and the need to borrow money to acquire property in Ireland resulted in substantial increases in the total level of private sector debt. This became of increasing concern to the Irish Central Bank, which had issued many warnings in an effort to affect consumer behaviour, but which signally failed to use any micro-economic tools such as prudential limits on lending or deposit requirements. Inflation was higher in Ireland than elsewhere in the Eurozone."

Before you point to NZ's heavily indebted public on housing debt it's interesting to note NZ has $1.6Trillion of residential property and an overall LVR of just 21% i.e. $340Billion (Corelogic and RBNZ).

by Chaosinflesh | 14th Mar 23, 4:18pm 1678763917

I take it you have properties to offload then?

by Sluggy | 14th Mar 23, 4:22pm 1678764136

He/She wears the vest of interest.

by Whome | 15th Mar 23, 12:36pm 1678836989

No I am not selling any property. It can be argued that I have a vested interest as I'm in the property industry (no Im not an agent).

by Whome | 14th Mar 23, 3:18pm 1678760320

by chebbo | 14th Mar 23, 9:39am 1678739959

I still don't think people quite grasp this. Too many think that this is just the COVID froth blowing off.

by donny11 | 14th Mar 23, 10:38am 1678743526

Yup. I think people underestimate the systemic issues to the housing markets that are created by quickly rising interest rates. Our experts need to read more Freidman.

by makechange | 14th Mar 23, 5:11pm 1678767117

Friedman's models and narratives bear little resemblance to the realities of how real people make choices, but are great for enriching international pirate oligarchs raiding countries' natural and social capital

by JavaBoy | 14th Mar 23, 9:47am 1678740444

The average number of mortgagee sales listed on trademe during the last 3 years is 18. It has recently increased to a peak of 37.

by makechange | 15th Mar 23, 12:10am 1678792228

Not sure where you get that number. May be valid for last 6 months, but not in 2020.

I tracked this fortnightly had between July and October 2020. Minimum 21 and max 33 resi mortgagee sale listings nationally via TM. Realestate.co.nz had a 16 to 27 across that same timeframe.

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 12:29pm 1678750178

It's just the beginning if parasitic house speculation bro. The buyers like me are waiting to buy from the morons that brought high with a mortgage because of FOMO. FOMO that was spun by the RE wankers and idiots like "most of so called fiscal gurus " eg tony Alexandra

by GV 27 | 14th Mar 23, 12:58pm 1678751886

Would you include the PM, Finance Minister and RBNZ Governor in there too? Because if you were a fully informed FHB trying to secure a family home, you would have been left high and dry by listening to the key political and institutional leaders at the time. Bit hard to justify a logical rational choice as 'moronic' at that point, isn't it.

by agnostium | 14th Mar 23, 5:37pm 1678768674

Bollocks. You heard what you wanted to hear. The PM, Finance Minister and RBNZ Governor all said house prices were too high.

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 9:24am 1678739059

Yep, again, 2023 will be worse than 2022!

by AdamJay1990 | 14th Mar 23, 9:29am 1678739385

Appreciate the new "From Peak" column REINZ now includes in the HPI table

by house hunter | 14th Mar 23, 12:11pm 1678749090

Yes, that's quite surprising!!

by Yvil | 14th Mar 23, 12:21pm 1678749683

Do they have a "from trough" table as well?

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 9:34am 1678739668

Where will it end? Already we have the property perma-bulls claiming the time to buy is now.

Not so fast ... Use the "Median price - REINZ" graph above. Select Auckland. See the flatline between 2016 and the COVID inspired silliness? I've mentioned why this exists for Auckland and nowhere else. Problem is ... "nowhere else" is now just like Auckland.

So ... Further falls coming. And no significant re-bound once interest rates come down a bit.

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 9:59am 1678741190

If prices do drop 40-50% from here, then the vast majority of investors that are in the 5th year etc of a 25year mortgage, with current tax situation, will bail........ the immediate loss is better then the future forecast cashflows.

DTI limits is the coup de grace, eliminating any chance of recovery unless we accept inflation at 5%

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 10:38am 1678743483

the immediate loss is better than the future forecast cashflows

100% agree.

All these loving words from the banks about how supportive they'll be is just a con to ensure their future profitability while the poor buyer gets right royally screwed waiting for their property to claw its way back to break even. (And for 'investors' who have lost their rights to claim interest as an expense ... even more so!)

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 10:48am 1678744096

Blinkers are still on for sure, anecdotally - speaking with a housing investor friend recently, still renting, owns investment property but looking to buy their own home. Prices will be back to new highs in 2025 apparently, just have to ride out the storm. Meanwhile their usable equity is about to hit negative.

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 10:55am 1678744538

Wow! 2025! Love their optimism!

Were they able to provide coherent reasons?

by p0s31d0n | 14th Mar 23, 10:06am 1678741616

Disastrous ??! Prices have not even reached pre-pandemic level yet. Before pandemic happened, NZ housing market was already in bubble. The propping up of property market which started in 2008 cannot just revert back by few rate hikes. We have long way to go before even we start calling it a correction or a crash.

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 10:42am 1678743721

Agreed.

If we are to reach pre-pandemic levels in Auckland it'll be back to the flatline that started in 2016 with the new Unitary Plan.

So somewhere around the $850k mark? Another $159k to go then.

by beau | 14th Mar 23, 10:13am 1678742017

Who else is starting to notice for sale signs on properties sold 2021?

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 10:16am 1678742182

Yes we are starting to see this in South Auckland. One roof and others are starting to report on properties selling at a loss...

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 10:32am 1678743170

Noticed one recently, asking price $400k below what was paid in 2021. I wonder if it will move.

by donny11 | 14th Mar 23, 10:35am 1678743312

In my market the Eastern Bays of Auckland. If the sale is a half decent price you get an email, text message and phone call telling you the sale price. If it is bad it sits at TBC for 6 months.

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 11:03am 1678745013

Seems to be quite a few stalled build sites around too.

Places where foundations have been laid, or materials on site, or surrounding fences erected, etc. but no action by anyone for months. One is a 1000 sqm sold by me mum for $4k/sqm which has foundations and then was sold on but nothing has happened for almost a year. And adjacent, another similar site is being used to store materials and has done so for over 2 years.

Methinks we just at the beginning of the mortgagee sale deluge.

by nigelh | 14th Mar 23, 1:20pm 1678753239

Probably land banking with some who has plenty of cash.

by DTRH | 14th Mar 23, 11:07am 1678745267

Sounds like penny has dropped for many on this website, house prices will continue to fall until average wage couples can afford to buy a home while still being able to feed family. The government then needs to take out speculators and make sure any increases in the future are not above inflation people should be able to have a place to live with family at the moment people who don’t own a home have no chance of buying.

by OldSkoolEconomics | 14th Mar 23, 3:59pm 1678762748

Agreed.

Labour (under Chippy) seems to be reading the room well and trying their best (bless them) to transform our country a bit. Some signs of drive away from property driven economics - towards a focus on on business, climate, infrastructure etc.

National are still living in 2008 and selling people the dream of owning fast growing investment properties and low taxes

by Kohukohunui | 14th Mar 23, 11:20am 1678746023

Disastrous? By that definition the food price inflation reported yesterday means the food market is record-smashingly successful.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 11:35am 1678746949

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/120289/food-prices-surged-a…

Something something...

The real kicker in all of this is how alarmist CPI inflation is made out to be, however HPI inflation was celebrated. All I see is a reallocation of funds, this will cause pain so long as budgets tighten between the two, in the long run CPI will take a larger portion of income, and mortgage payments a lower portion at a higher rate.

by ChrisOfNoFame | 14th Mar 23, 11:40am 1678747204

Doesn't always work like that.

If each supplier is supplying less, then their profits could be identical to when they had greater supply but sold at a lower price.

by HW2 | 14th Mar 23, 12:40pm 1678750819

59 percent is a pass mark as we all know.

The report will say "Could do better"

Could also do a lot lot worse.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 1:21pm 1678753275

Are you talking about a 59% clearance rate in Auckland compared to a year ago? At prices down ~17% yoy according to HPI. We're talking less than half as much money flowing through in sales. Back to work.

by HouseMouse | 14th Mar 23, 12:47pm 1678751230

Another builder in liquidation. I was mocked / ignored when I started saying more than 1.5 years ago that a construction crash was on its way.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/another-builder-fails-25m-owed-nine…

by HW2 | 14th Mar 23, 12:49pm 1678751395

I wonder if we are already in recession

by IT GUY | 14th Mar 23, 12:56pm 1678751815

Welcome to my world

by HW2 | 14th Mar 23, 1:04pm 1678752298

Am going on a limb and saying I dont think so

Dec gdp out this week?

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 1:23pm 1678753420

Tightly held, deseased estate, by tender, call to action, FOMTMM ( fear of making to much money), urgent sale by tender, or some honesty ..

over priced, shithole, offers over " the top" needed to pay debt!, Owners say " screw them", ....

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 1:25pm 1678753500

Sure are!

by stefanblaise | 14th Mar 23, 12:48pm 1678751302

Housing frenzy Bingo anyone? I'll start you:

Ya can't go wrong with houses - Smashed Avo Losers - Be Quick - Astute Investment - Solid Brick and Tile - Lazy Equity - Interest Only - Leverage Up - 5 Year old investor got his start selling marbles, now he's lost $6M on 30 houses.

by malamah | 14th Mar 23, 1:02pm 1678752167

"Is now a good time to buy? 9 year old says yes!"

by HW2 | 14th Mar 23, 1:09pm 1678752571

90 year old, whos seen it all before says yes as well.

70 year old tenant says I should have bought a home when I was young. My landlord just gave me notice to leave and I'm too old to move.

by Averageman | 14th Mar 23, 1:48pm 1678754906

Specuvstors bank told them to generate some equity...?

by kiwi_overseas | 14th Mar 23, 1:19pm 1678753143

This has been a long time coming.

interest rates have been falling since the 1980s from very high levels to historic lows (+ high immigration + stringent RMA + lack of social housing) so asset prices, especially houses (land price mainly) have been rising in price as they have become a financial asset rather than somewhere to live.

All we are seeing now is a return of interest rates to more normal levels and asset prices are correcting.

Successive gutless NZ governments have failed to put in place capital gains, land and wealth taxes so the financialisation of houses became extreme as money chased low risk low taxed returns.

We reap what we sow.

House prices are falling but are still nowhere near median multiples of 3 which is considered affordable. Eg Auckland circa 11, Christchurch 6 so we have some way to go.

With lower immigration, more supply through the RMA changes and higher interest rates the only way is down.

by refactornz | 14th Mar 23, 2:44pm 1678758297

Median multiple of 3 is a fantasy from another time.

by kiwi_overseas | 14th Mar 23, 3:25pm 1678760722

Not true

average rent 550 with mortgage at 2.5% peak stupidity gives $1.14m that can be financed as a house price. Median household income is circa 100k. Median multiple is 11.4

same above but with 7.50% mortgage gives effective house price of 381k and median multiple of 3.8. Not far off 3 already.

by refactornz | 14th Mar 23, 4:35pm 1678764941

I guess I missed the news about median house price dropping to 381K

by kiwi_overseas | 14th Mar 23, 4:55pm 1678766153

The calc provided is very simplistic but provided to make a point. It also needs to be done on real prices so you can add at least another 10% to the house prices falls to date to cover inflation.

House prices are sticky and we still have too little supply, otherwise on a real price basis that is where we are headed.

by nigelh | 14th Mar 23, 1:19pm 1678753156

I laugh to myself when I see that so many houses can't sell. That's crap. The prices are too high.

We are not in a Ukraine situation where the seller probably has to pay the buyer to buy it, especially if its in Bakhmut.

There is still a functioning market here.

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 2:29pm 1678757393

Yip. If the RE winkers got real and ignored the Homes and One Roof algorithms we'd see an active market....

They will realize this when thier wage packet looks 😭😭😭 sad

by Matt_B | 14th Mar 23, 2:05pm 1678755926

Net Migration ramping up to save the day

https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/international-migration-…

by Hemi Ti Wire | 14th Mar 23, 2:19pm 1678756770

Wrong!... It's only up compared to a huge low the previous year .

Go back to before Ardern hated immigration and it's still way down!

by kir10 | 14th Mar 23, 3:08pm 1678759680

Not my view of a disaster - it's all subjective it seems. A disaster for me was having to come up with 20% deposit. An amount that for a long time kept on becoming a larger and larger every single week due to a runaway speculative market. Median deposit at peak was $185,000. Now it's $152,000. In 2016 it would have been $89,000 - still an eyewatering amount of money. All whilst renting and having landlords constantly increase the rents because they 'need to service' and fund their retirements and luxury lifestyle. And the didn't yet have the luxury lifestyle, then they were chasing it. I would like it to keep coming down because my wage can service the mortgage but only bank of mum and dad can come up with the deposit.

by Nzdan | 14th Mar 23, 3:58pm 1678762697

Yes, those cash poor Landlords that run up the tab at the bank to outbid FHB like yourself, pushing house prices further out of reach using interest only mortgages and generous tax advantages that are thankfully now only limited to real businesses.

"Sorry rents gotta go up because I borrowed too much" while simultaneously house prices are dropping resulting in smaller loans for FHB and smaller deposits required. Might see a flurry of temporary renters able to move into their own homes or the many chicken coops for sale.

by kir10 | 14th Mar 23, 10:41pm 1678786884

I should say, bank of mum and dad will fund my deposit. That bank owns 5 houses. Despite my more objection to it, my parents have a reasonable answer. They don't trust that by the time they are old age that government will be able to look after their children's health, amongst other reason. I can't disagree with that. Health system is a disaster, like many other public services and institutions. However, I am going to wait it out I don't see prices stabilsing anytime soon. I think it's unfair I can have this support, but that's the world we live in.

by Averageman | 15th Mar 23, 7:44am 1678819489

Sellers greed reinforced by agents overpitching the price to get the listing is still a real problem. It's almost like they don't realise holding out on a fast declining market is all kinds of stupid.

by huttman | 15th Mar 23, 9:48am 1678826938

I thought Interest.co.nz is a financial site, turns out I was wrong. Reading all these exchanges in comments, I thoroughly enjoy the entertainment.