The latest sales figures from Auckland's largest real estate agency Barfoot & Thompson show just how severe the COVID-19 pandemic and its associated lockdown have been on the real estate industry.
The agency sold just 396 residential properties in May, which was lower than the 552 it sold in April when the country was mainly in Level 4 lockdown, and 52% down on the 821 properties it sold in May last year.
However there are also signs the market is coming back to life quite quickly, with Barfoot & Thompson receiving 1097 new listings in May, compared to just 239 in April.
That meant May's new listings were down just 7.5% compared to May last year.
Stock levels have also remained resilient, with the agency having a total of 3821 residential properties available for sale at the end of May. That compares to 3849 at the end of April and 3969 at the end of March, although May's stock levels were down 11.5% compared to the same month last year.
Prices were marginally softer, with Barfoot's average selling price in May falling for the second month in a row, dropping to $947,707, down $45,821 (-4.6%) from its March peak of $993,528.
The median price was more robust, rising from $900,000 in April to $914,000 in May but still slightly below its March peak of $925,000.
"Overall, the Auckland market's initial reaction to the COVID interruption has been uneventful," Barfoot & Thompson Managing Director Peter Thompson said.
"Sales are taking place but given the extended nature of the transfer process, are not yet showing up in completed sales data, and prices are not under pressure.
"However it will be another month before the market settles down and for a firmer indication of the future trading pattern to emerge," he said.
The interactive chart below shows the monthly trends in Barfoot & Thompson's sales, prices, and new listings.
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185 Comments
One thing i have noticed is the lack of bulls grazing the fields here at interest.co lately. There has been a noticeable drop.
Think they’ve finally given up
Yahoo, bears win
Well the stark evidence of market decline is all there; 1) "The agency sold just 396 residential properties in May, which was lower than the 552 it sold in April when the country was mainly in Level 4 lockdown, and 52% down on the 821 properties it sold in May last year."
Now if the property market was doing well you would have seen more properties sold in May with less restrictions (due to Covid-19), So that basically means that potential buyers are hesitant due to job and industry losses, this is likely to continue for a while even with mortgage rates dropping.
Point 2) "However there are also signs the market is coming back to life quite quickly, with Barfoot & Thompson receiving 1097 new listings in May, compared to just 239 in April".
Surge in property listings increase this could well be a lot of holiday homes / Airbnb's sell off due to international tourism being crippled due to the pandemic so may well increase and we all know what happens when a market become saturated = prices fall.
"stark evidence", an interesting lead-in to what was mostly speculative armchair forecasting.
More PR masquerading as news........Let's wait a few more months to see the reality to hit the fan.
Yeah funny how people are already trying to call it when we are not yet even down to Level 1 of the lockdown. Still I guess there will always some left in denial even if there is a crash, saw it here with the virus and people in denial it was serious and many still think it was just the Flu.
Laminar at least I've provided logical reasoning based on the evidence provided, where you have just turned to the usual Real Estate Agent dismissive attitude. Just keep repeating the RE mantra that "House price must always go up"!!!!
Functionally interchangeable with "We must get back to mortgaging our children and grandchildren's future!"
The only issue with your claim is that at no stage did I say anything about house prices.
Avacado
I don’t think they have gone at all. Just cashed up, watching and waiting. :)
Yes cashed up here and waiting. The only problem is if you find a nice house now you want 10% off the asking price or you know your going to get stung in a couple of months time.
Finding myself in this situation, and I'm not entirely sure 10% will do it.
Carlos
No need to worry. Those cashed up, watching and waiting are not silly so no need to get alarmed
People who are selling now, and need to sell, may start the lower prices rolling. The risk for them of getting less in a few months by holding out could cause this to happen. As they say, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Hi Avocado,
You have a vivid imagination.
But not surprised you've nothing better to occupy yourself with......
TTP
TTP Thanks! :-D :-D Much love!
That Bull is just an anxious Steer.
Avocado, that’s because there are so many on Interest.co that don’t own property unfortunately and are constantly wishing the prices to come down!
Interesting that the median price from Barfoot and Thompson In Auckland has shown to not be dropping in reality.
Actually most of us are worried about the banks and our economies going down the pan with the constant having to prop up house prices at tax payers expense, that's the main concern.
CJ099
Please provide specific examples of how the government currently is or previously has directly propped up house prices at tax payers expenses.
No foreign buyer ban
Mass immigration
Loss Attributing Qualifying Companies/offsetting losses against other income
Layers of regulation
No comprehensive capital gains tax
No inheritance tax
Falling interest rates
I'm sure there are plenty more.
IO
They are not out of tax payer funds.
Now that we have closed borders CJ099 doesn't have his foreign buyers to blame so looks like tax payer funds are the new reason for high house prices.
Of course, market forces such as low interest rates, QE, high immigration rates, housing shortages, poor cash/term deposit rates . . . etc have nothing to do with it.
Accommodation supplement
Home buyers grants
Kiwisaver allowed to towards buying houses
This is essentially true and has been for the past several years, atleast the three or four that I have been frequenting this site. I am now looking at a purchase this week, just working the vendor down from their asking price to a price that I am comfortable with. I believe its OK to buy anytime as long as the price is right and you know the risks and have a plan for them. If I lost my job tomorrow I would just rent out the place and it would cover the mortgage. I am probably not the typical FHB though who can fork out a 20% deposit. All in all its a tough road and while I dont want my house to go down tremendously (and I dont I think it will) New Zealand does need cheaper homes.
In an ideal world you'd get tenants in and cover the mortgage. Sounds easy. Now if you lost your job tomorrow among 50,000 other people who have gone on the Jobseeker benefit since Covid hit, many of whom may be in a similar boat to you, all competing against a flood of Air BNB hitting the rental market due to tourism tanking and potentially thousands of migrant workers heading home. I certainly wouldn't want to be an accidental landlord.
Not to mention that renters don't have an endless supply of money available to pay landlords mortgages. Article in the herald today said that 2/3rds of renters have experienced at least a 1/3rd drop in income.
Hang on but the other article said "Quotable Value warns that house prices are teetering on a cliff edge"
If you run a website on pageviews you need a reason for people to come here and debate.
ROFL, well said!
At least we get opinions from both sides of the argument. I think this is very healthy, as opposed to MSM's usually extremely biased approach (house prices ALWAYS go up). It's good to hear the points for and against a possible house prices decline.
Yes, nothing wrong with debate.
I think it's unlikely prices will drop much. The reserve bank runs a rigged system and they only ever allow prices to inflate.
I think this will be the biggest test of the RBNZ's abilities - if they can pull it off, we will know their power is limitless. They're certainly going to try.
So ST, do you envisage mortgage rates dropping to -1% to keep prop up the property ponzi scheme?
I wouldn't predict any one course of action, they have a lot of tools in their toolkit to deploy and none of them would surprise me.
Which the banks have used most of them up already like; Removing LVR restrictions, switching back to interest only mortgages, bringing in reverse mortgages and of course massive drops in mortgage rates which is now pretty much the only tool left in the box to keep prop up house prices.
I suppose you could vote National to bring in massive amounts of immigrants and remove the Foreign Buyers Ban. Still with the current global climate I don't think that will work either.
I've got the point now where I look at central banks as an enemy to the future of most western countries. They are literally attempting to maximise wealth creation for the now, while destroying the future. Its absolutely bonkers.
Absolutely agree with you IO. And it needs to change to sustainable future, hence why I wouldn't worry about a drop in property prices it needs to happen so they're in line with peoples wages, it is as simple as that.
Bam! That hits the nail on the head
If house prices were more aligned to wages it would solve alot of the inequality we see today. lower rents, less people living in cars or on the street. No need for accomodation allowances, food banks, free school lunches and a number of other charities that are reflective of the issue we have.
I would introduce a DTI and reduce it annually till it gets to 4.5
Nice, I like the thought.
And while all those social (and tax costs) are rising because of unaffordable housing, Yvil and co sell their houses and bank million dollar profits, probably claiming a bunch of tax deductions while those trying to save and pay rent have to pay RWT and no deductions allowed!
No moral hazard at all in what is going on.
Living off the wealth of preceding and succeeding generations. The net-negatives.
Plenty left. Selling credit default swaps, buying collateralised mortgages from the banks, guaranteeing loans, changing capital adequacy requirements, changing risk weighted assets, et cetera. The only limit to their depravity is their imagination.
ST you forgot 'Sub Prime Mortgages' too! Essentially what you listing is all methods to disguise risk and increase people debt. Basically all of it adds up to toxic assets. Didn't you learn anything during the GFC?
Let me enlighten you; The term Toxic Assets earned their name during the 2008 financial crisis when the market for mortgage-backed securities burst along with the housing bubble.
I'm not disagreeing with you, not sure why you feel the need to "enlighten" me?
Repeating the same mistakes of the GFC won't economically fix this pandemic crisis either.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say it would, I said the RBNZ is going to pull out all the stops to prop up the housing market.
My last comment was referring to our banking system including the RBNZ. It not all about you ST.
Those who have made money from property did so without any effort and they arent that smart or intelligent.
Those people who have made no money from property and whinge all the time about those that have are jealous.
Those people who have made money in property at the expense of future generations and the quality of our society have no moral compass.
Why would one be jealous of a lack of humility, good will and wisdom?
Be a bit smug and arrogant to assume others might be jealous of greedy self centred unwise behavior wouldn't it? But it would appear to be the claim you're making.
My future generations are well setup. Don't hate me because you don't know how to provide for yours.
Haha, you're straying pretty close to self-awareness! Your future generations require your assistance because people like you have ruined it for them.
Parent's should provide for their children. If you cannot then think twice about being a parent.
I'd rather provide for mine by leaving the country in a better place than when I found it, not a worse one.
There's a difference between looking after your kids and leaving a silver spoon in their mouths until their grave
Its funny because when I was going to Auckland auctions over the period of 2013-2017 I saw a number of boomer age adults outbidding 25-30 year old couples attempting to buy their own homes. i.e. boomer adults destroying the dreams of young adults the same age as their children.
I actually think its more than that - boomers have this weird narcissistic, self interest, ego thing going on and I worry that its going to bring the whole system down. You can see from the likes of HeavyG right through to the central banks. A system, by boomers for boomers.
But they'll tell you its all for their children (yeah right!) Its maximising wealth in the short term, but destroying the economy in the long term.
At those auctions, were you a passive observer mr independent observer. I suspect you got outbid and are still smarting from it. If only...
Independent observing there Houseworks. To see how crazy things were getting. There were about 10-20 Chinese people on phones at many, talking to most probably overseas buyers. Mums and Dads outbidding kids in their 20's. Tears..you name it.
... Late December back in '63, What a very special time for me...
Oops sorry I lost myself there I mean 2013. If someone was outbid usually what happens is they come back the next time a bit stronger and realistic. Often a buyer (I know, I have done it myself) comes in hoping for an unrealistic dream price. When they have tried that a couple times they decide to get real even if it means they have to pay more. Which means that they could have afforded the higher price before but just didnt want to. The example works just the same in 2015 but from memory 2013 was sedate in comparison.
I'm not sure how you come back "stronger" lol this isn't karate kid. House price inflation has outstripped wage inflation, no amount of training with Mr Miyagi will bridge the gap.
Cute very cute
IO, bought plenty at auction in Christchurch and I don’t think I have been in a bidding duel with Chinese people.
Yes if you are bidding against Chinese or Asian bidders and you are the highest bidder, you probably have paid more that what the property was probably worth.
The Chinese buyers were probably Auckland residents But getting their money from overseas, that is why Auckland property is not great value, but that is what you have to pay if you want to be in Auckland
Agree TM2 - and up vote.
I am not a boomer. I am not worried about boomers either, they cannot take their houses to the grave with them so there will always be opportunities for those who work hard and save.
If a working couple cannot buy a house in NZ then they need to work smarter/harder or look at cheaper options.
By cheaper options you mean a motel that is paid for by the government (or me as a PAYE tax payer) because house prices and rents are too high for them because some people have decided they need to own 5, 10, 15 homes to 'get ahead' and 'look after their children'?
An apartment or a tiny house as a starting option before moving up the ladder. If there is a housing shortage build more houses. It's an unfortunate reality not everyone can afford the 1/4 acre dream in Auckland.
Or somewhere that involves a 5 hour daily commute to and from the office. Mortgage = 1.5x household income. Historical income to debt/price ratios without the historical high interest rates.
I don't hate you personally HeavyG - but I hate what the current form of capitalism is doing to our societies. You're playing the game based on the rules, but the rules are broken.
Capitalism is functioning markets free from government interference. We do not have this.
Its actually getting to the point of being corrupt. But the funny thing is is that it will likely self implode before anyone gets a chance to revolt against it. Every time central banks avoid allowing bad debt from leaving the system the problem just gets worse until it won't be fixable and there will be mass defaults from businesses, to governments to households.
What we have is more like Crony Capitalism, especially so if you factor in Central Bank and Ratings Agencies. I say that, as an older middle class millennial who has managed to thrive in this system. But only because I learned very young that the system was not like the one my boomer parents generation experienced and that listening to that generations advise was not going to work for mine. The game had changed. I was raised to believe if you went to uni, got good grades, got into a "profession", worked hard, I could then wander into job security and some kind of middle class comfort. Boy did that path ever die a death! All my friends who kept trying to make that work and followed their boomer parents advise...are stressed out of their minds, up to their eyeballs in debt, had to have kids really late and don't get to spend enough time with them, especially the ones that divorced already. Some of the ones who didn't bother with uni and taking on that study debt are better off. Almost no one has job security though, regardless of income level, regardless of aptitude, education or talent. Jpb security seemed to die a death after the GFC, as did any assurances of pay rises outside of the FIRE sector.
Truth.
It was ever thus. As a little boy I lived near the railway; all my relatives other than a few of the wives worked for the railway. By all I mean my father and my mother before I was born, all my many uncles bar one, both grandfathers, my brother and my two sisters; even I had a student job as a railway porter. My father was stationmaster at three stations - all closed decades ago. There were numerous MPs sponsored by the railway unions. That giant industry withered away. A little later the Miners suffered the same fate. Hundreds of thousands of jobs just went away. No surprise because all the blacksmiths and stable hands had had the same problem between the wars.
Anyone driving in rural NZ will see empty houses that used to house agricultural labourers (was that the biggest employment area in the history of NZ?). Maybe what is most surprising is how in modern times we are not seeing such rapid economic changes as we had in the past - they have been talking automation taking jobs for fifty years but other than the depopulating of rural NZ I see little sign of it.
It's an excellent sentiment. The more I read, though, the more I think that I might actually hate him personally.
Guess how many proverbials I give sunshine...
That, in a nutshell, is the problem.
IO, Capitalism doing good our societies?
More of a problem is what socialism is doing to our societies.
Far to many nowadays believe that it is up to others to provide for their living costs!!!!!!!
Welfare system in NZ needs changing so that people provide for themselves and encourages independence?
Very accurate.
Houseworks, we are constantly being told on here that you don’t have to be smart and intelligent to make money in property investing!
If that is a prerequisite, then I would rather be dumb and financially wealthy than smart and broke, any day!
Smart, broke .... and looking for someone else to blame :)
Is it worth being financially wealthy if you become morally bankrupt in the process. You may think so, I do not.
That makes no sense.
Taking peoples wages in the form of rent, driving down home ownership rates, has moral hazard.
If that still doesn't make sense, your moral compass is different to mine, but I already knew that. We each must make peace with the higher one when our time comes. Taking wages off people who may want to be home owners themselves, so they can start families and feel established in our communities, wouldn't allow me to sleep at night. Some like TM2 appear to think that doing so is the path to greatness - but in my view, its the path to moral bankruptcy given the negative long term effects it is having/will have on the quality of our society.
Asking people to pay for a good / service is not immoral. You are in business, and provide services in exchange for money. Spare me the 'housing is a basic necessity' spiel. The properties we buy cannot be purchased by fhb, only by investors. I would love for the govt to change the law and the councils to ease their dumb over-governing rules that limit the number of properties for sale
"The properties we buy cannot be purchased by fhb, only by investors."
You only buy slumlord blocks of units? Why else could FHB not buy them?
IO, I am providing quality accommodation to people that require it and can afford it or I would be in the tenancy tribunal recovering rent arrears.
The fact is that this has happened only once and that was due to a partnership separation!
If tenants don’t like being a tenant, then I encourage them to buy a home for themselves!
I don’t force up prices when I buy, quite the opposite!
Ok - this might be difficult but I need you to think beyond yourself and your actions, but the actions of all the landlords and property speculators and their combined influence on the market. Done any university level econ papers/supply demand/externalities?
Honestly, get into politics and try and change it. You obviously feel very passionately about it and it's not going to change itself, maybe it's your calling? You seem articulate and are bloody persistent, go for it. I don't agree with much of what you argue, but I respect your points.
The reserve bank is not in a position to employ the tens of thousands who have lost their jobs. This is now bigger than anyone can "Manipulate" to try and fix the "problem" which is not really a problem at all. Its time to throw the cards on the table and just accept where they land.
Cheaper food - good
Cheaper gas and electric bills - good
Cheaper phones and laptops and TVs - good
Lower taxes - good
Lower mortgage rates - good
Cheaper cars - good
Cheaper insurance - good
Cheaper clothes - good
Cheaper furniture - good
Cheaper homes - bad, bad, bad!!!
To be fair the reserve bank thinks cheaper anything is bad.
All gains in productivity are capitalized into asset prices by their insane 2% inflation targeting.
You really need to look at purchasing power and one part of purchasing power is income. So if your income is declining faster than prices, then things are not that good. As been the case of Japan. Prices remained around the same while income has been constantly declining over the past 25 years. And people still say QE in japan has not been successful to inflate prices. It has when you consider the fact that income has reduced more rapidly than prices. So you have had inflation (the definition of inflation is how much a certain unit of currency can buy a basket of goods, so it does not take into account whether you have more or less of these units in your pocket) of prices. Families are not saving as they have less and less money. All the printed money by Japan ends up with large corporation and government who parks their money in banks as families ability to spend is further shrinking, causing investing in anything local oriented pointless, in turn feeding the force to reduce wages even further, making the cycle even stronger.
Comparatively, household debt in Japan is much lower than in nz and Australia. OK, their public debt is off the richter, but they owe it to themselves.
Interestingly, our ruling elite sees no issue with household debt as long as public finances are under control.
Is it surprising? NZ average wages have been increasing constantly, enabling lending, Japan the wages are diminishing, will you lend to that? Please note that I am not defending debt trapping people. Just that if NZ households have more debt compared to Japan, it is understandable given their earning prospects over the past 25 years. Japan wages are decreasing more rapidly than anything else. Families will have less and less money, so who will lend to them?
Please note that I am not defending debt trapping people. Just that if NZ households have more debt compared to Japan, it is understandable given their earning prospects over the past 25 years.
Japan's houshold debt to GDP has never been as great as that of NZ (not even close), even during their stupendously massive bubble.
In the city today and noticing a few eateries offering 20% off.
I've also noticed heaps of empty shop fronts in Auckland. Most of them were sports leisure, eateries and tourist related stores. Oh and the Home Decor stores are also trying to shift their piled up stock. Even DIY stores like Bunnings have just announced store closures due to lack of business.
B&T stopped announcing this on their website?
had a RE door knocking on our street on sunday looking for people to sell , he found one further down the street an investment property, for sale sign went up today
I think they might be Jehovah's Witnesses looking for people to sell their souls
That reminds me of Bernard from Black Books (Very funny British TV comedy) and the Jehovah's Witnesses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6TeDM-wlZ4
"looking for people to sell"
You might want to report that to the police.
7 auctions chch harcourts today, 4 sold, 2＞rv, 2﹤rv, 3 passed in
Property market revitalised! 50% of houses selling above RV!!! Buy now!!! (please)
If house prices do not go down after a pandemic because the government has done everything in its power to prop the prices up then every single NZ youth should up sticks and move to a different country. Let the boomers and investors feed on themselves.
I thought the deal was they sucked up the high prices and low wages and rejoiced at the 80%+ Debt to GDP they get to inherit after this mess has worked itself thru...
Sure, but where? All the countries that are aligned with us culturally, Australia, Canada, UK, USA...all doing the same.
Incomes in those countries are higher, and costs of living are generally significantly lower. The list of reasons to stay in NZ starts to get pretty short.
The old "I'm emigrating chestnut"! You would be a very brave person sending your kids to a state school in the UK or an Australian city. That expense alone makes NZ look like a rip-roaring bargain and paradise.
Public school in Australia is free, Private looks to be around $10k p/a. Pretty much the same as here, no?
You're right, it's not. $10k per quarter, so about $40k per year. Not a single person I know in Eastern Suburbs Sydney or central Brisbane send kids to state school. The state schools there are abhorent.
@ Te Kooti - Private schools in Brisbane; the top private school Brisbane Grammar is $25K/year. St Joseph Gergory (almost 2nd best) $15K/year. In Melbourne top private school is about $30K/year
Where did you get your figures from?
One of the best schools in Australia is the 3 Queensland Academies and they are State Schools ($600 fee/yr) - Their achievement in average International Baccalaureate (IB) score is way above average worldwide.
Just do as one here does, earn in Australia and send your child back to NZ for their Medical Degree.
Of course. I'm surprised you don't read more about the successful Aussies who base themselves in NZ for tax purposes (lower paye and no capital gains).
Ex Expat, don't forget the fee will be free. Anyhow, that kid might be the one fixing you up later in hospital, so be nice or he/she could use a rejected part in your hip.
The Anglosphere
Yes please, Auckland traffic has returned to its normal crawl and a few hundred thousand millennials leaving for greener pastures would lessen the load.
I'm not sure how a generation of men missed the lessons on humility?
The greed and self interest is out of this world. What happened? How...why?
Got tired of people whinging all the time and expecting hand outs rather than putting in some effort. I've got my own kids to worry about without having to look after yours. Here's an idea, stop suckling on the teats of others.
That doesn't make any sense - so are you a landlord? Don't they receive other peoples wages in rent meaning that landlords are sucking on the teats of others?
Isn't that a hypocritical view?
Is Countodown sucking on the teats of others by selling them food?
Your point...(it isn't obvious unless you're going to compare buying a house with buying a can of tomatoes and if you are please don't bother. And if you are then lets put housing into the CPI basket and fix its rate of growth to 2% inflation like other consumer goods and you have to pay for it with cash, no debt).
The point was obvious, it's not sucking on the teat when consideration is provided for a payment.
You just don't like the point because it highlights how silly your comment was.
I don't go to the bank and ask for a leveraged loan 5x my wages to buy my groceries. Nor are houses fixed by a 2% inflation target.
If you think its a valid comparison that's fine - we're looking at these issues from very different levels of understanding and clearly you compare a house to a bunch of bananas.
Quite astonishing to see the level of intelligence and the EQ of the likes of HeavyG et al. Thank God in the next 10-15 years most of them and their preposterous ideology will be dead
Well the big grocery chains have driven plenty of local producers out of the market and the ones that are left have no choice but to accept the prices that big food gives them.
"stop suckling on the teats of others."
Got any tenants on accommodation supplements?
Even if not, should we axe accommodation supplements anyway?
Coz, I mean that's indirectly sucking the teat.
Yeah I don't get how the landlord class talk down to people who receive government assistance (i.e. often renters) - and now more than ever, without government intervention the housing market would be a mess with rent and mortgage defaults. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
No, I never taken WINZ tenants, idle hands are the devil's tools and all that.
I would be fine with my taxes providing for those in need and support housing NZ. I just don't think it makes sense to have someone who sits at home all day spitting out babies having the same lifestyle as someone who works hard to look after themselves and their family, such a society ends badly:
I'm not sure how landlording is any different. You sit at home and collect rents from tenants and I assume your wife has spat out a few babies as you put it.
So should everyone just become a landlord then? Would that fix all our problems? Oh but then if everyone is a landlord, then who ever pays rent to a landlord - all the houses would be empty....wow, that would be a problem.
Yeah sure, however, without the necessary capital or income this may be difficult for some. I would recommend those that lack the necessary capital or income go get some (i.e. pull finger from....).
Unemployment in NZ was 3.9% in 2019. So 96.1% of the people who are able are actually working. Is it so difficult to accept that wages haven't kept up with the costs of accommodation?
HeavyG, do you really think mother's of newborns or young children just sit around all day? When did respect for motherhood get so low? Jesus Christ. I used to run an adolescent ward and manage 40 staff, i'd be oncall most nights and weekends for my own ward and another few. It was less stressful than mothering a newborn or toddler.
Did the mother have an income or property in order to support their child? Or did they expect the taxpayer (i.e. me) to provide them a place to live, put food on their table, money in their pocket, a car in their driveway, clothes on them and their baby. If they expect me to provide this for them how long do they expect me to do this? Until the baby is 18? Until they have 4 more babies that turn 18?...
I respect mothers who provide for the families and support them rather than expecting to take the food from the babes of others.
If someone makes a mistake when they're 18, or if they don't make a mistake but their circumstances change due to bad luck (eg. partner dies), they should be left behind. Left to rot and die in the streets with their kids. Just so you can pay a bit less tax.
Is this what you're saying?
Nice try. No, for those in "real" need we supply a social safety net. However, where we have full on bludging a nudge of the gravy train is required.
Women has a child at 18 to a dead beat dad, loves the lifestyle and has 4 more kids to other losers while on the DPB. Never had a job in her life and she is now 45 years old and considering kid number 6 to see her through to super. I am sure you are happy my taxes have paid for her life choices but I am not.
If other people hadn't been 'at home spitting out babies' as you put it, then you wouldn't have any tenants at all. Why should you expect other people to provide the means by which you make an income without being compensated in any way?
They're compensated with accommodation. Rent is not a donation.If you don't want to pay it then move out, not rocket science. All my tenants have jobs, it is a prerequisite for me renting to them.
They are compensated with accommodation - that you charge them for? How would you feel if your boss told you that instead of paying you a salary, they would compensate you by providing room and board, but you still had to pay market rates for the room and board? I don't think you understand what compensating means.
Giving birth to a child and raising it is labour. If your business depends on other people having children, then your business depends on other people performing that labour, and they mostly do it for free. What was that about sucking on teats again?
If my boss paid me in accommodation for which I also had to pay market rent for I would never turn up to work. Pretty simple really.
If the whole world stopped having babies and there was no one to rent my properties that's life, what I wouldn't do is be on this site whining about it and demanding someone give me something for free.
At least you're consistent in your bigotry and ignorance HeavyG. Not to mention stereotypes.
So you're resentful of having to pay taxes that support other people. How about roads? We all pay the taxes your car drives around on. Are you resentful of that? Or police? Or schools?
And how many people do you actually know in this situation? Of course they exist - but it's easier to take a simplistic talkback view rather than look at how these situations occur in the first place.
You sound angry.
"to have someone who sits at home all day spitting out babies having the same lifestyle as someone who works hard"
Now where the hell did that assumption come from? Do you really think unemployed people get $1000+ per week?
Sole parents with accommodation supplement and childcare assistance... yes. My point is you don't want them having large incomes as it becomes a lifestyle option that relies on the work of others.
OK so in your opinion, what should a single mom of two little kids do? Childcare isn't exactly free. But you should know that, you have kids of your own. A minimum wage job won't cover accommodation plus childcare plus food plus education plus... dare I say... some sort of entertainment.
Start by asking how she ended up there. Where is her partner? What savings did she have or qualifications before having children? If she has fallen on hard times there should be a safety net but that is as good as it gets. She definitely shouldn't be given a free house she has not worked or paid for.
Out of interest, how did you make your money to get started on 'the property ladder'? i.e. what's your line of work?
I'd ask what qualifications people have before running off to the bank and leveraging up to the eyeballs?
I'd hazard a guess that most are on par with those single mothers (ditto for real estate agents and mortgage brokers).
What savings did they have? (Where did the initial 'savings' come from?)
If they fall on hard times what kind of support are they going to demand? (Mortgage holidays? Bail-outs? Wage subsidies supplementing their tenants' rent?)
And unlike that single mother... Are they going to drag down they economy with them when their leveraged house of cards collapses?
HeavyG, you are totally correct in your points.
Wasting your time though, as there are so many that are on welfare and believe that it is their god given right to be receiving welfare all of their lives!
Just the way it is in NZ nowadays, and needs changing
Could you provide some references? Unemployment, up until recently, has been the lowest it has ever been. Your statement contradicts that fact.
Facts are something that exist independently outside of you, me and everyone else.
There are many lifelong beneficiaries in NZ without doubt.
Big families without thinking about can we afford any more kids?
Just as there will always be parasitic tax dodging capitalists. And they are far more damaging to society and the economy than any beneficiary demons that can be conjured up.
"stop suckling on the teats of others."
How many tenants are currently receiving the wage subsidy (via their employer) and using that money to pay their rent?
Look, just because your kids are sucking on your teats, it doesn't mean that a whole generation is being parasitic on another generation.
Oh wait....
Kids are supposed to suckle on their parents teats. It's you lot who think you can have kids and then like a cuckoo expect someone else to pull their titties out to feed them. Try standing on your own two feet for once.
What an entitled prick you are. There are a portion of people who don't wish to own their own homes due to the financial/time commitment. When landlords are providing accommodation to those people, they provide something of value.
But that is not what is happening in New Zealand. Increasingly those who want to buy a home who work full time, save hard, are unable to purchase their own homes as Landlords have leveraged up existing capital and forced First Home Buyers out of the market. These are working people who contribute to society, and they having their wealth and future sucked dry by a bunch of parasites such as yourself. And yet you point the finger at others "suckling on the teat". What a complete lack of self awareness.
I am aware you all want something for nothing and that you don't even know what you want (at least you have not said what you want... compulsory acquisition of all rental properties and one house per person/couple maybe?). Show how self aware you are.
Why do you believe I want something for nothing? I have worked my whole life. I have earned every penny I have by doing something productive that actually produces something of value. My net worth is well above the national average and i'm still in my 30's.
You have made up some story about what you think I want, just so you can sidestep my argument.
All I want is a level playing field so that every Kiwi can have a decent life, provided they are willing to work for it.
HeavyG is clearly a troll, given that the vast majority of their posts are light on substance and heavy on language obviously just chosen to get a rise out of people. Best to ignore them.
All HeavyG is doing is projecting the failures of his sister-in-law on to a larger group of people. Housing affordability is steadily becoming worse in New Zealand, even with record low unemployment, but he sees that as the fault of potential buyers, no one else. Otherwise known as puritanical bias.
Snow, housing affordability is becoming far more affordable now.
The monthly report on here is saying that and clearly you are not reading it!
With interest rates so low, why wouldn’t you be buying now where interest paid is less than renting!!!!!
I think he's doing more than that. Look at the language: 'spitting out babies'. And the fact that fathes and their responsibility don't rate a mention - it's for some reason only mothers who deserve his vitriol. But in any case, what he says isn't worth reading.
ForeignBuyer
No question house prices are going to burst big time.
“I expect 50% reduction in NZ house prices when this is over. It is the greatest ever reset!” FB 23 March
“ . . the market is about to plummet and there is absolutely nothing anybody can do about it. We are going back to 2006 prices.” FB 22 April
You seem not quite so sure now. Having some doubts and a change of mind?
I may well have seriously underestimated the immorality of this government. If they did not prop up the housing market like they are doing 50% would be the least it would drop.
FB
"I may well have seriously underestimated the immorality of this government" - another of your fire from the hip statements really without substance.
Since you made those posts the government has had NO specific policy or action to prop up the housing market - your claim has absolutely no merit. Government has not had policies to prop up the housing market either over the past 10 years or in their Covid response.
Support the wider economy - yes, the government is propping up businesses and jobs.
Yes RBNZ have reduced the the OCR, have been involved in QE, but their primary purpose is for economic stability and in particular to protect both businesses and jobs. Low interest rates for mortgage holders is a consequence but never the primary purpose.
Government's actions have been on supporting businesses (and indirectly consequently jobs), and directly supporting jobs through subsidies. Yes, the government has underwritten mortgage holidays; for most their is no "free" money such as for businesses and workers - it is about supporting those mortgage holders (individuals) who are facing dire consequences and that will be only a minority of property owners.
The majority of these new Covid-19 subsidies go indirectly to landlords. Without them, this hold destructive house of cards would come crashing down and fairness could prevail. House prices would become affordable. Surely you can accept this fact?
No FB
You seem to really have a narrow fixation and hatred of landlords - I think I can remember a quote of yours, "All landlords are leeches". It really clouds your arguments.
The Covid subsidies are going to those businesses and workers in need to survive and meet their obligations in these difficult times - that includes meeting their needs for housing. Government doesnt really want to see more living on the streets and under bridges.
Hey, but don't worry; although you seem to hate (your?) landlords, they just really love you as renters pay off their mortgages.
While you scream doom and gloom about housing, there were 76,000 (125,000 people?) FHB in the previous 12 months (according to RBNZ mortgage data) who got out and purchased their own home.
I am concerned about falling rate of homeownership for 25 to 35 year olds and I sympathise with those struggling.
However, over the past 18 months or so I see a number of posters make unsubstantiated exaggerated claims not only inconsistent with the likes of RBNZ but also rubbishing them.
These unsubstantiated exaggerated claims need to be challenged if discussion regarding housing - especially for FHB - is to be meaningful.
"... then every single NZ youth should up sticks and move to a different country."
Not a problem! They can be replaced by immigrants.
Rinse and replace. (It won't be the same country or demography that the NZ youth knew, but no-one cares.)
But then the same old farts will complain about them dirty immigrants being everywhere...
FB, and where do you reckon all these single youth go to?
The United States, Australia, or where in your humble opinion!
So Australia prices are cheaper?
Not answering for FB but I moved from Wellington to Auckland (stayed 10 years in Auckland). Then 2011 left to Brisbane, it was the best move for me personally. We used to own a bungalow near central Auckland, had 2 incomes to sustain a large mortgage. Sold that bungalow in Auckland in 2014 to buy a house in Brisbane, downgraded to one income for lifestyle and mortgage free. My house in Brisbane is 4km from CBD, much better built and larger than Auckland. Salary is better here and my super account is way more healthy than the old kiwi savers with my employer contributing almost 19%.. Now why staying?
Almost anyone will be financially better off living in Australian cities rather than Auckland, with the exception of Sydney.
But life isn't just about finances, and that's why I am in NZ.
I did for lifestyle, one income and one of us can spend more quality time for school drop off/pick up.. Way less stress than stranded in traffic grid lock from Manukau to Auckland..
Now I can walk to work, admittedly it's a bit tough in summer's heat but the train station is only 5 mins away.
Chairman, pleased it worked our for you, as you did something about it!
Most just want to moan and groan all their lives.
I always suggest people take action if they aren’t happy with things, which we Do,
If you take a look at the actual transactions, unlike last month, there is a distinct lack of apartments completing so prob a fair reflection of the market I.e. low volume while buyers back off and sellers increase stock on the market.
Lots of more new listings but sales 52% down from last year... what does this tell you? Simply there are just not many people are buying out or asking prices are too high. If stocks continue to flood the market, dont suprise a big fall for housing price.
Second worst month for sales volume on record for Barfoot.
Only beaten by December 1999, and only just (392 sales).
Hard to tell much from Barfoots stats. May REINZ HPI should give us a decent indication of which way things are heading. I'm hopeful of a correction, but wouldn't bet my life on it.
Ray white email to all - boom time
https://view.joomag.com/nz-ray-white-now-1-june-2020-ray-white-now-nz-1…
Nothing really new there, same as other agents, sell now... buy now... They will never say dont buy now, dont sell now...If you are really not too sure about buying or selling, dont go to agents cause you wont get advices from them. They are not there to give you advice, they are there to make money out of you. Get the information by yourself and trust yourself.
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