“You are screwing with my life!” is not the best way to start any conversation, let alone one about money with your partner.
Unfortunately, that is how a lot of conversations between partners end up, if one is feeling frustrated and angry at the lack of communication about money in the relationship.
“I thought I was doing the right thing by supporting my wife and family, so she didn’t have to go to work” is what one husband said after his marriage of 25 years ended.
It turns out, that wasn’t what his wife wanted. She wanted to be more self-sufficient and financially independent within the relationship, but neither of them knew how to talk about what they wanted or what the other thought, until it was too late.
“I had no idea what was going on with our finances. I thought we were doing OK, there were no boundaries around my spending, he never told me if I was spending too much.” This from a wife whose husband ended the relationship and through the process of splitting their assets, finds out things weren’t as rosy as she thought.
Stress and arguing over money in the relationship is a bad sign, but it worsens if you never discuss it at all. Sadly, many of us have inherited money habits or behaviours that weaken our own financial security and our closest relationships.
And still this happens in a lot of relationships because many of us were raised in homes where money was a taboo subject.
Various surveys tell us that between 50-75% of couples separate as a result of the stress and fighting created by money. So, if you’re not talking about it, there’s a good chance that one of you is stressed about the family finance.
For the record, the two top financial reasons couples separated are, overspending (spending more than you earn) and financial infidelity (secret spending).
Stories like these are commonplace in the work we do with clients who are going through a separation. The key theme: lack of communication and assuming everything is OK.
How can you be financially independent and be in a relationship?
Fundamentally, both of you do need some independence (big subject here and now is not the place to expand on this further). Once this is agreed, it will be easier to determine how each of you can have some financial independence within the relationship.
An important starting point is to know your numbers and then start talking about them.
“Wow, this is so empowering, I am really starting to understand what is going on.” This from a wife wanting to take more responsibility for the household finances. She was tired of arguing about money and being told she is spending too much, when she didn’t know the numbers.
So, if you don’t want someone else screwing with your life, it is time to step up and take responsibility, have the tough conversations before it gets to the point where you are packing your bags and leaving.
Lynda Moore is a Money Mentalist coach and New Zealand’s only certified New Money Story® mentor. Lynda helps you understand why you do the things you do with your money, when we all know we should spend less than we earn. You can contact her here.
29 Comments
Only the 2 wives (I'm 68 now & know my limitations); sadly, my 2nd wife passed away unexpectedly in 2021 (undiagnosed heart disease).
I was probably thinking about my comment on choosing your partner wisely wrt financial habits & differentiating in my mind (with reason, let's just say the 1st had very different financial habits).
But do you need it and are you sure it is the right ram type for your computer lol. After complaining about crashes due to memory overload for a year, (I had done things to help, temporary fixes without the upgrade, e.g. reduce display performance of apps, reduce other memory load of apps, cancel background processes, uninstall programs, switch to better browsers and tightly manage memory costly updates through scripts and killing processes and it was still crashing), my partner was practically throwing ram my way. We discussed the requirements and which ram, we have an agreed provider for tech we go to first. We made sure to plan for the payments so it was not the same month rates go out or major car bills.
Most computer upgrades are a scam of forced obsolescence. But there are a few cases and programs that will core shame you (looking at you Unreal Engine, and Autodesk Revit) and chew through memory when you need them for work.
LOL.
Yup. Revit was one of the reasons. But the main one was ever increasing size of databases behind some economic models. The DBs are now running on the wife's PC (she doesn't know) and she says it is faster for some reason (as I didn't tell her the RAM was her PC which is now maxed out at 64GB as I used some of 'my' money to buy big chips for her PC and moved a few of the bigger chips into my PC which now has 32GB). We have a gigabit ethernet switch so this works a treat.
Yes. I am a terrible, lying, conniving husband. But with less time at my desk I can now spend more time doing all the jobs she wants done. ;-)
Lol ah the days where your partner does not investigate their hard drive files or has familiarity with server setups & databases :) balance of probabilities I like the fact my partner and I intimately know where everything is. It makes sharing personal videos easier, and a useful person to hand the backup storage management tasks to if either one is busy :)
ah an extra 32Gb would be nice now. hmm I think I only need to complain about the latest crashes a little more in time for easter sales and I can then run a couple of extra VMs :)
Yep, informed consent and planning. Ours is anything over 100 (cumulative over many purchases) unless it is business related required expenses from business budget. No one quibles the small wellbeing purchases or things like a dinner with family or costs for new shoes, breathing masks, comics, minis, a 4th type of cheese and pies at work etc (we do both normally stick to functional costs with wellbeing stuff tagged on). But if cumulative costs increase over a set amount it can affect budget and savings plans for the couple. All investment related decisions are discussed and large purchases for appliances and equipment that can affect ongoing maintenance. Small tools, consumable repair materials e.g. epoxy, isopropyl, acetone, paints etc also go into that 100 as they add up.
A bit like informed consent. Financial abuse is where finances can be spent without informing so there is not enough money for essential needs, or they are controlled and limited to a point a partner cannot access their funds, or has no say in financial planning. But in many cases a lot of the relationship angst can be just keeping people informed and a shared budget for bills coming up, e.g. rates, specialists, building repairs etc. When budgets are super tight and cannot meet all outgoing bills e.g. rent/mortgage (which is rent to the bank), power, water, internet, transport then it becomes vital that both partners make sacrifices but that is something that needs to be agreed and what is highest priority costs must be informed and agreed decisions. But likewise when times are good and there is overwhelming excess tossing say 200k of shared capital into investments also needs informed consent on the options, reasoning, risks, protections etc. A abusive partner who blows their share of rent and power costs on alcohol instead and gambling with investments or putting them into highly speculative online trading accounts is a risk in any relationship.
Equally anything can affect partner behaviour which can change over time. My partner had a significant brain injury, (accident fall in transport after work that was not covered for significant time by ACC), and it meant they did not know what they were spending on or signing up for so hundreds of dollars of subscriptions came through at one point, e.g. LinkedIn, Amazon, TV subs (when we never used or had a tv anyway), FB purchases for things that never arrived (scams). They could not remember signing up or agreeing to purchase things, were more susceptible to scams, and did not realize they were losing the funds at that point as they could not log in and track payments from the bank account. The process to unsubscribe was especially difficult (especially for someone still relearning to spell common names and struggling to remember their address). In this case it is even more vital to have informed consent both ways.
We had no guidance or medical treatment support for the brain injury at first so both being highly independent people the sudden mental changes and behaviour shifts threw us both. I discovered the massive drain on their funds when they had no money for bills, assisted with the investigative work, and started to assist with their financial management. If you are helping it means every payment and change must be informed to a level of detail and they still have complete choice over everything, right down to minor changes still as they had done so themselves previously. We used memory aids around the place (upcoming bills visible and budget visible, copied the address, phone number and names onto paper signs so if anything needed reading out on the phone or form filling it was there in easily visible place on wall). We switched to a joint account income would go directly into, wellbeing money would go out to individual accounts at a fixed rate (used for anything without question), and provided updated spreadsheets and mini meetings. However with an injury it is super important to effectively display information in more accessible and digestible formats as well. A long term outgoings graph, (different colours for different costs & cumulative), is better than a table to help with visual etc. A pie chart to show proportion of costs etc. Physical was better than online tools sometimes as screens, comm programs and navigation became difficult. Also carefully breaking down information sessions to bite size chunks to reduce info overload and fatigue with mental effort during recovery.
It was difficult as a brain injury that significantly effects memory, comprehension, understanding of consequences, and impulsivity was a significant impediment to financial management even though it was temporary. Ageing also has this issue where a person previously highly experienced even with a doctorate in finances & mathematics may gradually lose skills and competences they based their career on and have cognitive slips they do not notice. There is often no support in those situations, the risk of scam investments is higher, and if there is not the visibility to both people in a partnership and shared financial management visibility it can be missed. This happened to my partners father with early dementia. Reliving memories events in hallucinations and then forgetting what children looked like was at the late stage extreme end but the decades of slow gradual slips, more self centered actions, loss of financial partnership was there but went undetected until too late to avert major crisis events. It was way worse when he was solo as there was no one to catch the wild outgoings and loss of funds. Leaving him destitute, without food, kicked out of his flat, lost license to drive from unwarranted vehicle etc. After multiple police and ambulance callouts, lots of advocacy of family to try to get medical support the specialists were finally willing to diagnose but he is still without much medical support so is now forced to live at one of the sons homes with visibility / able to check in on him.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
I found it moving & helpful. I'm currently waiting to board a flight to visit family who've been living in Australia for 20+ years, including my elderly mother who is now in care. Over the years I've provided occasional financial support to them for some similar circumstances.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience.
The journey you've shared highlights the essence of partnership in facing financial and health challenges—emphasizing the importance of informed consent, shared decision-making, and adaptability in sustaining financial well-being and mutual support through life's unpredictable turns.
Both parties should be aware of the combined household finances.
There have been many reports of the spouse without financial responsibilities suddenly having to learn and jump into the deep end when the spouse with financial responsibilities leaves the long term relationship (either through separation, mental incapacitation (illness / accident) or death)
Marriage, taking responsibility for another adult, is an archaic concept. A single man has their own money and so many options in life. With out the risk of another and them taking your cash and prizes, supported by the law. Pre-nups are worthless. Most marriages end in divorce.
If you knew there was more than a 50% chance of divorce, that will leave you financially and emotionally devastated, would you? What about bungy jumping with a 50% survival rate?
If men didn't consider marriage as the end of the journey and instead viewed it as the beginning of the journey, especially if children involved, perhaps things will work out better than 50%. Men are to blame in most marriage breakups. It takes hard work and sacrifice. Speaking from experience, having had two shots at it and still learning. Married couples are usually financially better off in the end as well.
"Men are to blame?" Last time i checked a relationship takes two....
You realise that the stats for a successful marriage decline with every attempt don't you? 50% failure 1st attempt, 70% failure 2nd attempt, 90% failure 3rd attempt
Of course married couples are better off, together you typically earn more, and you don't lose 50% of everything or more and have to start again... ! nobody gets into a serious long term relationship thinking it will end, but sadly >50% do...
Family law is creating a society where its incredibly risky for men to marry, or get into a de-facto relationship which is equally as bad
Its one of the few contracts that people are actually incentivised to break... ask bill gates, jeff bezos or kanye west who benefited from their divorce? on a micro level its the higher earner who gets penalised
This is evidenced by the continuing falling marriage rate since the feminist movement in the 1960's that started changing family laws... they are in my opinion broken and incredibly damaging on multiple fronts, childcare, long term child welfare, child issues into adulthood, male suicides, financial strain for both partners, bad behaviour in courts i.e. false DV claims, low burden of proof for any accusations etc
Its bias in application and encourages people (primarily women) to lie or point and accuse someone for personal gains as the rules tend to be in their favour in practice
The key reason I believe is the fact that lawyers are involved... and the burden of proof is very low and accountability for perjury are near non-existent, so as a result accusations are abundant (usually female towards male), which by its very nature creates an adversarial relationship post separation which benefits lawyers through acrimony
Hate to break it to you but unless you are paying for intimate relations on a hourly basis or going celibate even defacto relationship partners have legal rights in relationship & breakups. What gets classed as defacto evolves with our understanding of partnerships, (e.g. including rights for gay partners outside of the marriage). But then your statement strikes me as someone who would not be wanted in any relationship in the first place and would struggle to find one unless they were paying on an hourly basis.
In the long run a marriage is far more financially successful (esp considering two incomes, all the unpaid carer work and backup income for any illness or accidental injury) and can better get into long term investment loans. It costs far less having a marriage when looking at ongoing one off intimacy costs as well. Those in marriages can have better survival rates simply because of the long standing benefits of two people to shoulder the same burdens life throws at them and reduced isolation.
Most couples do not need a marriage per se as the legal rights for defacto couples are pretty similar so it is important to consider whether you are prepared and adult enough for a relationship with responsibility at all. I get that responsibility and consequences are not something you are adult enough or prepared for. That is just a part of growing up and learning. Eventually you may be or you will become one of those "forever alone" online types. Frankly I am ok for paying for intimate relations of others with my partner (and I found a partner as open to them as I am) but I get that your lack of understanding of how they cost more then a defacto/married relationship is from your lack of experience with growing relationships.
Here is a clue, if you want to have a true picture of your future look at the make up in different older age care facilities and those facilities with more independence. When your independence is supported by someone else then you have a better chance of survival and better quality of life for near 30 years. Most people form an opinion of relationships of their first 30years when they are young, do not have a fully formed brain, have hormonal imbalance and struggle to learn independence and responsibility themselves. Yet those last 30 years of life are vital. In the middle you have another 30years to learn about different responsibility, how to work with others, different relationships and adjust.
Oh and just to be clear, 70% of divorces or separations are initiated by women
If their college or university qualified that number jumps up to 90%
So it's clear that women are creating the majority of this statistic - and family law is an outright awful process to go through on multiple levels - most men get dragged through it reluctantly and typically end up worse off as a result - 50% less assets, likely <50% custody, accusations that they have to defend and a raft of letters with demands from lawyers and your ex
Terrible process... incredibly damaging, No wonder men don't want to get married anymore but are forced to via de-facto laws
They should make disclosure of marriage statistics and outcomes of marriages mandatory to those applying for a marriage BEFORE they get married or even defacto relationships,
As most people are unaware, and do not get informed unless they know someone who went through it and simply dont realise the contract they are unknowlingly signing up for until they are on the receiving end of family law later and realising far too late...
I just go along with whatever the Wife wants .... and work harder/ longer....lol Lucky for me outgoings have tracked downward so im in a good space. Weve been thru thick and thin so we just plod along . Id let her spend every nickel if she wanted.... and she knows that....which is likely why she doesnt .... and likewise she would let me do the same... I think we just trust each other....
one of my mate has it right
When they bought a house him having higher wages ploughed through the mortage
Then once the house was paid off, he pays for all rates insurances, all bills, she buys grocercies. This way he knows they can both be financially well off for their retirement
Sounds like you and your wife have nailed the art of balance and trust in your partnership—letting each other have the freedom, yet not taking it for granted. It's great to hear you're both in a good space, proving that plodding along together really is the secret sauce!
We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.
Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.