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Parts of Waikato to go into Level 3 lockdown for 5 days; 2 cases in the region yet to be linked to Auckland

Parts of Waikato to go into Level 3 lockdown for 5 days; 2 cases in the region yet to be linked to Auckland
3rd Oct 21, 1:10pm by Jenée Tibshraeny

Parts of Waikato, including Raglan, Te Kauwhata, Huntly, Ngāruawāhia and Hamilton City, will go into Level 3 lockdown for five days from 11:59pm on Sunday.

The restrictions are being implemented following two new cases being found in the region - one in Hamilton East and one in Raglan.

The cases are linked to each other. However, they haven't yet been linked to the Auckland outbreak. The cases are unvaccinated and in their 40s and 50s. 

Additionally, there are 32 new cases to report in Auckland. Fifteen of these cases are unlinked.

One of the cases is an Auckland-based truck driver who travelled to Palmerston North for work.

The hours worked by the driver means their contact with other people is limited.

Nationwide, 79% of over-12s have had their first dose of the vaccine. That portion is higher in Auckland at nearly 84%.

There are still 887,000 eligible New Zealanders who haven’t been vaccinated. 

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Cabinet would consider alert levels for Auckland on Monday independently of the Waikato situation. She said moving Auckland back to Level 4 was off the cards.  

Monday's alert level update will be done at 4pm. 

Waikato cases

The case in Raglan is self-isolating at this stage and will be moved to a quarantine facility. The Waikato District Health Board is today carrying out further interviews with this person.

This case was tested on 1 October after feeling unwell. Their infectious period is determined to be from 27 September.

This person has three household contacts who are also isolating.

The second case is a known contact of the Raglan case and was tested after becoming unwell. This person, who lives in Hamilton, was transferred to Waikato Hospital where they are being treated for Covid-19-related symptoms.

Their household contacts are self-isolating.

A pop-up testing centre will be operating at the Raglan Rugby Grounds car park on Cross Street from midday and anyone in Raglan with symptoms is urged to get a test today.

The testing centres at the Founders Theatre car park in Hamilton CBD will have additional capacity added today and a pop-up centre at the Claudelands Event Centre will be set up. 

There are also walk-in vaccinations available in Hamilton today at the super-site at Te Awa -The Base, as well as other sites around the city.

A number of exposure events for both cases are in the process of being worked through by public health staff. Any that are locations of interest will be listed on the Ministry of Health website.

Truck driver

Coming back to the truck driver, the case was detected in a routine surveillance test which was done in Auckland on Friday, and which returned a positive result on Saturday.

The person has been tested regularly, as required for essential workers travelling out of Auckland, and had previously returned a negative test result on September 24. The person’s infectious period is determined to be from September 28.

As per surveillance testing protocol, essential workers who are permitted to cross Auckland’s boundaries are not required to self-isolate until they return a negative test result, as they undergo regular tests.

The person is currently isolating at a facility in Palmerston North.

Auckland Regional Public Health Service has completed its initial interview with the person. Whole genome sequencing is underway.

Two household contacts have been identified and are self-isolating.

A small number of exposure events are in the process of being worked through by public health staff.  Any that are locations of interest will be listed on the Ministry of Health website.

Non-citizens arriving from overseas will need to be fully vaccinated 

Separately, Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins announced non-New Zealand citizens arriving in New Zealand will need to be fully vaccinated from November 1.

The requirement is for air travellers aged 17 and over.

Travellers will be required to declare their vaccination status when registering with the Managed Isolation Allocation System, as well as presenting proof of vaccination or a relevant exemption to their airline and to Customs officers once they land.  

The Covid-19 Technical Advisory Group has recommended that a full course of any of the 22 COVID-19 vaccines approved by a government or approval authority, with the last dose being at least 14 days before arrival, will be acceptable at this stage. Guidance will be prepared on what will qualify as evidence of a vaccination or an exemption.   

“Most people coming to New Zealand tell us they are already vaccinated. This requirement makes it formal and will provide an extra layer of protection at the border,” Hipkins said.

“It will work well alongside the announcement today that everyone on board an Air New Zealand aircraft travelling internationally will need to be fully vaccinated from February 2022.”

Everybody arriving will still be required to complete 14 days in Managed Isolation and Quarantine, and all travellers except those from exempt locations will still need to have evidence of a negative Covid-19 test result from an accredited laboratory within 72 hours of their first scheduled international flight. 

“This requirement will be an interim measure while development continues on the traveller health declaration system, which will introduce the ability to digitally verify the vaccination status of people arriving into New Zealand,” Hipkins said.

Those subject to the requirement who fail to present proof of vaccination may be subject to an infringement notice under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Amendment Act 2020, which under a Bill currently before the House would see infringements carrying a maximum fine of $4000.

The requirement will not apply to New Zealand citizens, children under the age of 17, and those who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons. 

RSE workers coming to NZ as part of the one-way QFT arrangement with Samoa, Tonga, and Vanuatu will also be exempt due to existing vaccination requirements, as will refugees. There will also be a process to seek exemptions from the Director General of Health on humanitarian grounds, or where people travelling with New Zealand citizens have not had the opportunity to be vaccinated within the timeframes. 

Latest case data

Below is the latest from the Ministry of Health. Note the second Waikato case hasn't been included in the table below because it was found outside of the Ministry's reporting period. So, including this case, there are actually 34 new cases. 

Cases  
Number of new community cases 33
Number of new cases identified at the border Zero
Location of new community cases Auckland (32), Waikato (1)
Location of community cases (total) Auckland (including four cases in Upper Hauraki; all of whom are in the same household) 1,309 (1,061 of whom have recovered); Waikato 2; Wellington 17 (all of whom have recovered)
Number of community cases (total) 1,328 (in current community outbreak)
Cases infectious in the community Fourteen of yesterday’s 27 cases have exposure events
Cases in isolation throughout the period they were infectious Thirteen of yesterday’s 27 cases
Cases epidemiologically linked Eighteen of today’s 33 cases.
Cases to be epidemiologically linked Fifteen of today’s 33 cases. Investigations are continuing to determine a link.
Cases epidemiologically linked (total) 1,283 (in the current cluster) (23 unlinked from the past fortnight).
Number of sub-clusters 15 epidemiologically linked subclusters. Of these, six are active, two are contained and seven are dormant. There are 14 epidemiologically unlinked subclusters. Of these, five are active, one is contained and eight are dormant.
Cases in hospital 26 (total): North Shore (3); Middlemore (13); Auckland (9); Waikato (1)
Cases in ICU or HDU Three
Confirmed cases (total) 3,995 since pandemic began
Historical cases, since 1 Jan 2021 (total) 163 out of 2,178 since 1 Jan 2021
Contacts  
Number of active contacts being managed (total): 985
Percentage who have received an outbound call from contact tracers (to confirm testing and isolation requirements) 80%
Percentage with at least one test result 72%
Locations of interest  
Locations of interest (total) 100 (as at 9am 3 October)
Tests  
Number of tests (total) 3,436,459
Number of tests total (last 24 hours) 16,915
Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours) 7,880
Tests rolling average (last 7 days) 15,261
Testing centres in Auckland 19
Wastewater  
Wastewater detections No unexpected detections in the last 24 hours
COVID-19 vaccine update  
Vaccines administered to date (total) 5,319,381; 1st doses: 3,321,136; 2nd doses: 1,998,245
Vaccines administered yesterday (total) 50,067; 1st doses: 12,776; 2nd doses: 37,291
Māori 1st doses: 322,523; 2nd doses: 175,905
Pacific Peoples 1st doses: 208,390; 2nd doses: 124,358
Vaccines administered to Auckland residents to date (total) 1,937,898: 1st doses: 1,203,152 (84%); 2nd doses: 734,746 (51%)
Vaccines administered to Auckland residents yesterday (total) 21,567: 1st doses: 4,554; 2nd doses: 17,013
NZ COVID-19 tracer  
Registered users (total) 3,267,858
Poster scans (total) 402,783,558
Manual diary entries (total) 17,446,244
Poster scans in 24 hours to midday yesterday 2,593,401

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248 Comments

by  nigelh  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:24pm 1633220699

Level 2 for Akl now. Don't live there but this elimination strategy is now nonsense without Akl in an undetermined duration in level 3 (or 3+ as the goal posts are moved) lockdown. Recalcitrants not wanting to be vaccinated and those up far North deliberately playing hard ball with all sorts of invalid excuses.

I'm hoping in the next week that there'll be many flagrant violations of level 3 in Akl

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by  tothepoint  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:26pm 1633220804

Being locked-down is better than being locked-up.

TTP  (-;

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by  nigelh  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:30pm 1633221035

For sure but unlikely if its widespread and large enough crowds.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:37pm 1633221462

There's also a lot of people up far north who are quite poorly educated and have probably just had a relative or a friend tell them a load of crap, and as a result that's pushed them slightly over the line into inaction rather than action.

I think we need to start offering $70 first jab $50 second jab with evidence of a community services card and the situation would change dramatically.

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:41pm 1633221689

Too little too late.

We had so much time to ramp up vaccination. Labour just sat on their hands.

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by  Foxglove.  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:17pm 1633227472

DELTA 1 NZ LABOUR GOVERNMENT nil

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by  Gummy Bear Hero  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:20pm 1633234856

... suddenly ...  with Delta  in the country , being " at the front of the queue " seems an intelligent  option .....

Pity that it was only cheap weasel words from this government ... not action ... not a signature to purchase vaccines on a contract.... just more spin / lies / smoke & mirrors from the incompetents  we voted for in 2020 ....

 ... fool us once , shame on you ... fool us twice .... shame on the team of 5 million  ... 

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by  Foxglove.  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:30pm 1633235439

We need Pfizer to reveal the entire timeline and process for the order, not just the parts that suit the  government ‘s propaganda.

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by  John2  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:40pm 1633239612

Why does it matter? We have vacs here now, whats stopping people now .

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by  boreddad  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:51pm 1633243880

I’ve got it booked but I’m still waiting to be given mine.

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:37pm 1633246657

Boreddad, bookings are optional now. Just turn up. That was what I did. No issues.

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by  boreddad  |  3rd Oct 21, 9:11pm 1633248673

Thanks, will give it a go

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by  John2  |  3rd Oct 21, 9:40pm 1633250439

Just walk in. or make enquiries.

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:54pm 1633222479

Where do I find vax rate by region?

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:15pm 1633223752

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-no…

And you might not be looking for this much data but on that page is a good spreadsheet called 

COVID-19 vaccination data through 28 Sep 2021 (Excel, 271 KB)

That you can filter and sort to see latest rates in relation to eligible populations.

Northland's first vax rate was 66% as of Friday, from that spreadsheet.

The spinoff also has some great graphs, you might already be across that.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:03pm 1633223035
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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:51pm 1633225871

auckland is over 84% first dose and 50% fully vaccinated , it time we start moving to more freedoms, when cases go up like NSW and VIC the lazy and dumb might go and get the job 

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:56pm 1633226179

I think it's getting to the point where a reality shock may be what we need to mobilise the rest of the country

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by  GV 27  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:02pm 1633226570

'The rest of the country' don't care. They won't engage with the state. They're not watching 1pm press conferences and they aren't going to obey whatever lockdown rules you put in place. 

We've made up excuses for gang members or people with poor upbringing or blamed colonialisation or whatever, to the point where nothing these people do is their fault. There's always an excuse. Unfortunately Delta does not care whether you've managed to leverage being part of a marginalised community or whether you think you have a god-given right to keep a preventable disease circulating in a population. 

The real question is how long will engaged, vaccinated, hitherto compliant Aucklanders play ball for the sake of the idiots that insist on their right to never have to do anything they don't want to do. 

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:57pm 1633229856

Wrong , No such favors for gangs..

However the govt did allow some mongrel mob club members to self isolate.

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by  GV 27  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:43pm 1633232626

Wrong eh? Could I be confusing them with the ones who were supposed to self-isolate at home, but who were supposedly out and about and visiting shops? So the patched gang members who ground West Auckland traffic to a halt on Friday with burnouts, gathering in numbers and unmasked were just out showing their appreciation of the chance to do their part for the lockdown? Or the other gang breaches under lockdowns, e.g. closing off Te Mata Peak under Level 4 lockdown last year? Or the ones riding six wide across the Southern Motorway to Tamaki's idiot protest yesterday? 

They can do what they like and they know it.

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by  John2  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:38pm 1633239521

This is exactly what we don't need.to reward people with their carry ons.

Who are paying - those law abiding tac payers yet again?



No jab no job, no jab no welfare benefits will get them in the line very quickly

 

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:01pm 1633240863

Still don't get it do you?

Due to the method of vaccination roll out, there is no way to prove you have had it, and no way for anyone to check you have had it.

Its not so much the scams (which will happen) it is the known human error. A muffled voice through a mask (possibly not even in their primary language) to a person stressed out,tired, underpaid, who has been jabbing people all day and has no official formal ID to reconcile your record to. So Mr John 2. Born 03/10/1968 all of a sudden Mr John Too Born 03/10/1969, has your record. You might still have the little purple slip, but what use is that to you? It contradicts your NHI - what is right?

If it helps I have worked in Data for DHBs and fixed exactly these sort of errors. It is around about a 2.5% error rate for data entry in Hospitals. Likely worse, out in a high volume Vaccination centre. So out of the 3mil jabbed that would mean approx 50-100k possible errors.

Secondly, how can you be checked? Do you want to give your boss full access to your medical records?

This is exactly what Jacinda meant when she raised it today and is what her Govt will be trying to resolve as soon as they can.

 

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by  John2  |  3rd Oct 21, 9:52pm 1633251138

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-no…



Good thing you are not working there - you are not helping with your outlandish claims

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by  Noncents  |  4th Oct 21, 7:30am 1633285838

What outlandish claim? I think you have missed my point.

I am not saying they will share your data with everyone. I am saying that if you say "I am vaccinated". No one can prove otherwise as they are not allowed to know. So if anyone implements a "you must be vaccinated policy" they are limited solely to what you say.

The only way at this stage (based on current laws) would be for you to sign a form allowing someone else access to your medical records. You clearly aren't going to do this, and neither am I.

So the whole plan is now unworkable.

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by  AndrewRiddell5886  |  4th Oct 21, 7:59am 1633287553

What then is the card I have recording my two vaccination shots - by batch, date and time - if it is not confirmation that I have been vaccinated?

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by  C_T_20  |  4th Oct 21, 1:20pm 1633306854

In 6 months time… useless, just like the injections.

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by  John2  |  4th Oct 21, 1:43pm 1633308187
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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:51pm 1633222319

We will stay at level 3.

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by  Foxglove.  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:05pm 1633223114

Yep, powers that be can hardly reduce Auckland, 30 odd cases daily, and increase Hamilton 2 cases, at the same time can they. So no surprises then at tomorrow’s Punch & Judy show. Eight weeks worth for Auckland of stringent lockdown and based on the government’s strategy no sign of any relaxation at any future point. Or if there is, they sure as hell ain’t telling anyone about it. 

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:39pm 1633228795

No OCR rise next week then.

Up up and away....

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by  Brutus Iscariot  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:04pm 1633223043

Brian Tamaki's next protest will have twice the attendance. If I don't hear a satisfactory line from the government, I'll be there too. I'll be masked and vaccinated, but just there to show that there is a big section of society who want a way out of this shit - and that doesn't include being held hostage by minorities.

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by  frazz  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:04pm 1633226698

Make sure you make a donation..he needs a new Merc

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by  nigelh  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:48pm 1633229282

Its a pity he is anti-vaxer. I'm pro vaccine but of recent, say from 6 weeks ago an anti-lockdown since 3 was instituted and with no moving the goalpost at level 2 from what level 2 was say 3 months ago.

I wish there was someone who'd organise and anti-lockdown march/demo including the main provincial towns.

Anyone aware of the law regarding civil disobedience, specifically in the Covid times?

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by  twoturntablesa…  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:05pm 1633233946

Everybody needs to play ball. An anti-lockdown protest at the Auckland Domain doesn't help, in my opinion.

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by  CWBW  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:26pm 1633220767

Looks like lock-down strategy is failing.

The Berlin wall can't hold back progress.

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:30pm 1633221039

And yet they continue with it in the Waikato.

Where's the personal responsibility to get vaccinated?

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:26pm 1633220799

Resistance is futile.

It'll spread more, with time. This govt is costing the country billions due to their lack of planning and slow vaccine rollout.

Ardern and Bloomfield look rattled. Bloomfield looks like he's been hit by a bus.

No sign of the words "under control" so far.

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by  Zen20  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:32pm 1633221156

Gladys B obviously wanted out of the bell jar and took the opportunity when it presented

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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:54pm 1633226070

gladys has changed australia and NZ , we could have had one more summer of level 1 if she had gone hard and early but now we all have to learn to live with the virus instead, 

 

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by  kpnuts  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:43pm 1633246999

we could have had it if Cindy had not waited over a month to close the bubble  - which is the thing WE could have controlled ! 

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by  tothepoint  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:38pm 1633221506

"Resistance is futile."

So is non-resistance.

TTP

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by  Dave Moderato  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:28pm 1633228102

Ardern looking like she's trying to talk her way out of a speeding ticket.

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:30pm 1633221030

Its a cluster$%#^ now.

  • expecting 35 cases after Friday. We now have 60+ including outside of Akld
  • Mandating vaccines, but never got ID to prove.
  • Govt owned National carrier banning unvacinated from flying.
  • Veiled threats to the nation.
    • Vaccinate of you will be locked down like Hamilton
    • Vaccine or summer is over and christmas is cancelled.
  • The official truth of the day from our PM "The virus targets the unvaccinated".

Kiss goodbye to your civil liberties people.

 

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:32pm 1633221121

The beginning of the end of Ardern.

Looks like the fish and chip experience is not quite right for the PM job.

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by  tothepoint  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:40pm 1633221640

"The beginning of the end of Ardern."

Yep - the return of the Tories.

TTP

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:43pm 1633221783

David Seymour for PM FTW! 

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:10pm 1633223453

If that is my alternative, I will just take Covid thanks.

In Fact I nominate Covid as my preferred PM. It is a far better option than any/all of the current MPs.

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by  fat pat  |  4th Oct 21, 3:19am 1633270751

I want covid to hold a press conference and tell us how it's going to save us from the government

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:14pm 1633245269

What the UK Conservative party is setting up in nz? None of our politicians are in the same ball park as Johnson, Grove and the may-bot. 

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by  frazz  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:06pm 1633226781

Bring back the wood work teacher and the FX trader!

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by  He Kahukura  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:24pm 1633238664

Ten days ago I posted a response requesting a higher standard of debate from 'The Usual Suspects'. You obviously didn't get the memo. Personal denigration of elected government members and public servants does not become you. That's two strikes. I have filed an official complaint to the editor  relating to your continual sniping. Maybe Gareth Vaughan will personally contact you and point out the error of your ways.

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by  Rosenstein  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:46pm 1633221997

"Look what you're making me do to you" - Jacinda the Muss 

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by  WellingtonInvestor  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:56pm 1633236982

Yet they were so close to elimination, they just needed to enforce all the lockdown flouters. Being kind didn't work. They increased the fines, but the changes have yet to come into force, which is a joke.  Dropping to level 3 was a big mistake. Now they don't want to go back up to level 4, even though it could eliminate the virus. .NZs health system is not up to also dealing with covid, even with high vaccination levels. WE are kidding ourselves if we think vaccination is a silver bullet. In the UK where there is high vaccination and immunity from living with the virus, they are already planning for lockdowns in the winter to prevent their health system getting overwhelmed  and their health system is far better than NZs. 

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by  Lord Dowding  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:21pm 1633238480

What you’ve said about the UK at the end there is exactly right and that’s a fear of mine also. It could get really ugly here in the next 6 months. 

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:19pm 1633245545

How about instead of suffering mass media induced hysteria, we wait until we see dozens of people dying.. The lock down. If we really need to. 

I know plenty of people in the EU and most are reporting live more or less as normal.

Time to get on with life. I've got my vaccine. More than happy to deal with the virus. Heard immunity is the only way forward at this point. 

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by  AndrewRiddell5886  |  4th Oct 21, 8:02am 1633287769

Selfish, much.

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:30pm 1633221048

Looks like it's getting away.

You antivax sure you read the data right?

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:39pm 1633221593

Best comment

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:51pm 1633222297

It is the pro-vaxxers that are of more concern. The anti-vaxxers aren't appealing for laws to ban vaccinated, or screaming about their "Right" to turn vaccinated people away from shops/events/functions.

A few don't wear masks. But hey, they will catch covid, and that may change their mind.

Like with all other vaccines. Let the individual choose. Society doesn't need to shun them.

For the record I am pro-vaccination and due to a range of travel and more vaccinated than most kiwis.

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:59pm 1633222754

The potential of overwhelmed hospitals is a pretty significant concern if you need care.

Not in favour of forced vaccination, but anyone who doesn't is either stupid or lazy.

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:17pm 1633223854

Our hospitals are overwhelmed because of persistent multi-Govt Negligence. Amplified by the fact that since Covid, the only change in health policy was a wage freeze.

Given the delays in healthcare with lockdowns. I don't see it as a valid concern as we are screwing people either way.

80% are basically vaccinated. Of the 20% left, only 10% of those are likely to need hospitalisation. Probably less, given the demographics left unvaccinated.

Either way that is a much better ratio than Measles (which has about the same vaccination rate across the entire populace, is more infectious, and generally takes out children rather than the old/terminally ill.)

"Not in favour of forced vaccination, but anyone who doesn't is either stupid or lazy."

100% agreement.

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:32pm 1633224743

At the moment we can generally get emergency care when we need it. If 10k anti vax hit the hospitals it'll be wartime triaging.

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:44pm 1633225488

Globally only 3% of people have caught covid. So the likelihood of 10k people all needing care at the same time is minimal. It would be spread over time, and would be triaged in a similar manner to the flu. Triage was designed exactly for this purpose, so I don't see an issue.

Personally I think it will be less. We are at a level now, where realistically we will be fine.

It's all irrelevant anyway. As per the 1pm we have no certified way to prove vaccination. So any restrictions would by default apply to everyone. Unless of course everyone lines up with ID and gets another round or two.

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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:58pm 1633226285

you would have thought they could add to the covid app, so when you check in it shows your vac status

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by  printer8  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:41pm 1633228865

Sharetrader

It is recorded in  “Manage My Health” App. 

A great App well worth having - all one’s details including even details of one’s blood test results.  

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by  Golfer  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:58pm 1633226311

You vaccination status is linked to you NHI (national hospital number) and is immediately available to health staff. 

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:01pm 1633226516

The problem is noone checked ID at time of vaccination, so no way to prove who was actually there to get the jab.

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by  Golfer  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:00pm 1633230001

I wouldn’t get too hung up on that. Needs discussing in an immigration forum. 

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:00pm 1633226431

My math was wrong, more like 100k hospitalisations.

Anyway I agree it's time to open up, or at least set a deadline.

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by  Kiwi Tim  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:54pm 1633233249

I worked out the hospitalisation rate for the current Auckland outbreak is 4.86% and thats a tiny outbreak. If it spread like wild fire Auckland would be looking at far more than 10,000 hospitalisations but agree over time as in a couple of months. For context there are 233 ICU beds in all of NZ. Im anti-lockdown but they do seem to buy time for a useless government to push what should have been done by June. (Vax)

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:13pm 1633241597

I think hospitalisation will reduce though.

  1. My understanding is that a lot of the current hospitalisations are precautionary. i.e. we have the space so we admitted them. In normal times they would be fine at home.
  2. Also before this outbreak it was still only 65+ that could be vaccinated. It wasn't until day 2-3 that we opened up to over 40s, and about a week until we opened to everyone. It is still another week or so until the first huge vacc drive hit their 6 weeks and get their second dose. So you would strongly expect future hospitalisations to reduce as a result.
  3. The demographics of the current unvaccinated would imply a lower risk of symptoms and hospitalisation in general.

I don't think the future will be as dire as many make out. We may get blips that push the health system, but the outcomes for mthe vast majority will be no worse than the delays/cancellations due to lockdown.

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by  Roger the dodger  |  3rd Oct 21, 9:53pm 1633251213

Technicality but 50+ opened to vax on Friday before lockdown.

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by  Caughtinthemiddle  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:33pm 1633235622

Keep your amateur modelling to yourself. It’s not even close to what the true medical picture looks like and simply gives a false sense of security. I work at Middlemore. If we let COVID rip through South Auckland with current vaccination rates it’s going to be a catastrophe. Non survivors won’t be because of a failure to respond to interventions, many will be because they were triaged as not for treatment - medical rationing. This is not hysteria, simply medical statistics. 

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by  kiwichas  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:01pm 1633237319

Exactly, why do you think Ashley and Jacinda look so stressed,they know what is likely. 

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:28pm 1633242538

Lol, I am a modeller/analyst by profession and was involved with Swine Flu modelling in 2009, so I probably have a better understanding than you think.

Based on the official modelling, the current outbreak should have seen 10-12 deaths by now  and about 120 cases should have been in ICU (which should have broken). We have seen one death, and that was an unfortunate elderly person with siginificant co-morbities. Further, people are not spending that long in Hospital/ICU. You can see the offical MoH numbers fluxuating up and down to back this up.

I may be a bit on the optimsitic side, but with most now vaccinated, masks in operation, a better handle on treatment, and general awareness a lot higher, the "catastrophe" as you put it, is unlikely.

This is not hysteria, simply medical statistics.

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by  AndrewRiddell5886  |  4th Oct 21, 8:06am 1633288014

Interested in what current modelling you are citing.

The recent Te Pūhana Matatini modelling was based on assumptions and scenarios that do not apply to this level 3 lockdown.

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:23pm 1633245788

Let's wait until that happens then lock down. The 1000s of people dying numbers are outside guesstimate. 

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by  donny11  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:31pm 1633221103

I guess Hamilton going to level 3 significantly lowers the chance of Auckland going to level 2 next week. As it appears the govt won't lower levels while there is "uncontrolled community transmission".

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:32pm 1633221172

Didn't they keep saying everything was "under control"? 

Total BS now fully exposed.

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by  WellingtonInvestor  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:58pm 1633237119

They just said there wasn't 'widespread' undetected community transmission occurring. Widespread was the key word. There obviously is some undetected community transmission occurring, espeically shown by cases appearing randomly at hospitals.

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:34pm 1633239251

My take?

Ardern and co are incompetent.

They think we are still dealing with Covid in early 2020.

Clearly, their incompetence has cost this country billions and billions. Vaccination should've been done and dusted by mid this year.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:39pm 1633243172

To be fair most other countries are still dealing with covid management issues, and they opened up a long time before us.

It's not going to go away anytime soon.

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:24pm 1633245889

Most countries are just accepting its now part of life. Not that many are taking the Saint ardern approach any more. No one dies! Not on my watch! 

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:40pm 1633246816

Well said bunny!

Adapting is key. All Ardern knows is to lock us down, smile and say those cringy lines like the team of 5 mill etc.

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by  Zen20  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:34pm 1633221277

Looks like the turkeys will enjoy Christmas this year

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by  house hunter  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:48pm 1633222081

I'd say there's a better case for keeping Hamilton in level 3 than for keeping Auckland in level 3.  Time to accept the horse has bolted in Auckland.  With Hamilton there's some chance of knocking it on the head for a while.

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by  AndrewRiddell5886  |  4th Oct 21, 8:08am 1633288121

If the horse has bolted in Auckland, isn't that a strong case for isolating Auckland from the rest of the country, not opening up Auckland?

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by  house hunter  |  4th Oct 21, 9:34am 1633293278

I thought that was a given.  PM has already said that the Auckland border will remain even if it moves to level 2.

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by  Foxglove.  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:19pm 1633223976

Elimination strategy has failed and with that this government has failed New Zealanders. All the vital  and very good  achievements up until two months ago have been compromised except for the undeniable truth that New Zealand has not had to suffer the devastating level of mortalities of other nations. But as the ABs discovered, you don’t win a game at half time. 

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by  AndrewRiddell5886  |  4th Oct 21, 8:10am 1633288215

Nah, elimination remains the same realistic goal. Vaccination is the extra tool to use. We are transitioning to increased reliance on that.

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:37pm 1633221453

In other news... no surprises here for anyone with a few brain cells left. Read and weep over the sheer audacity of governments to appoint people with such obvious conflicts of interest? When will this stop? When enough people, especially young ones, had sufficient side effects from a 'vaccine' that doesn't do what a vaccine is supposed to do?

https://nzdsos.com/2021/09/30/the-trojan-horse-paste-hater-at-the-helm-…

Why don't we look to those countries that actually are getting on now with treatments being given as safely as possible with existing drugs? Like India, or Mexico or...

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:03pm 1633222997

So a vaccine that pretty well always prevents death is no good, gotcha

Better be quick or it might be you that's fighting for a hospital bed

 

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:49pm 1633225775

Do you actually read this information and the links within it, before you post such replies completely devoid of any factual rebuttal?

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:07pm 1633226852

Do you actually dispute that the vaccine is significantly effective against death from Covid?

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by  Rosenstein  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:28pm 1633228135

For the 60+ very much so (reduced hospitalizations and death) 

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:41pm 1633236091

Only real serious data suggests it is only proven to reduce slightly the hospitalisation rate in the 60+ group. All younger and healthy would have a better chance to establish natural immunity which has already been shown to be far superior to your favoured so-called ‘vaccination’. Besides, when are we going to roll out the booster? We know from Israel that you would need the same number doses in Jan-Mar next year again to start round 3!. Perhaps even more important than that fact is the viral load in vaccinated people being much higher than in people with natural immunity. So why would anyone with common sense and zero health issues want a experimental treatment with woefully insufficient safety data?

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:35pm 1633239352

Trouble is you have to try your luck at catching it to get natural immunity. Better to do that after a vaccine that reduces severity.

Also it's extremely effective across all age groups at preventing deaths and hospitalisations. Let's see you provide data to the contrary.

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:18pm 1633227516

Also I've read Simon Thornley's grievance project website before, and don't plan to spend any more time on it. It is full of cherry picked stats manipulated to sound scary.

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by  Final Account  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:08pm 1633223298

Wtf did i just read, author slanders a doctor for recommending vaccination (due to risk of side effects), then scratches around in the dust for studies that prove random treatments of x, y or z drugs. Article was trying to be emotive with not enough sound science. Next please. Smh. 

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:51pm 1633225883

Wow, spin brigade is out in force today!!

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:19pm 1633227583

And it's even self identifying, conveniently.

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:07pm 1633230460

Well, as long as you and anyone else do keen on experimental treatments do not force others, you just go ahead and get your boosters at least every 6 months, if not soone, if you really want any decent ‘protection’. Just stop your own scare kongering with 100k hospitalised. Where you get these numbers from beats me. It sure sounds just as much a scaremongering tactic as you accuse others of. I am only posting links here because there are plenty of people who don’t swallow the Kool-Aid handed out by government and their “Modelers”… welcome to Pfizer-land… 

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:17pm 1633231027

Well all the best in your soon coming battle against Covid.

A vaccine used 4 billion times is a bit past the experimental stage.

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:47pm 1633236469

Maybe in your opinion. I happen to think medium to long term effects simply cannot have been collected even close to enough in one year or less. If it normally takes 7-10 years to release and approve a traditional vaccine. And I might add that is for a real vaccine where it is known that after 1-2 shots for common well established vaccines you have an effective defense. With the current crop of new treatments, you simply don’t have that unless you run to get boosters forever every 4-6 months. Is that what you really advocate for the whole world in eternity?

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:32pm 1633239135

I advocate a vax to take the edge off the first time my body encounters it, I'll likely still get it, albeit mildly, and have perfectly functional natural immunity after that 

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:28pm 1633246118

Sure they rushed the vaccine..

Can't be any worse than all the drugs alcahol and nicotine I consumed in my youth... 

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by  printer8  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:46pm 1633229189

CT

Keep with the pathetic BS.

Yes NZDSOS pushes Ivermectin; no reputable clinical trials, slammed by FDA, CDC and manufacturer as unsafe for human use. 

Do you really believe the cr*p you post?

 

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by  tim52  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:41pm 1633236106

Unsafe for human use? (That's one can easily be done from the limited sources you trust)

https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/cmi/s/stromectol.pdf

The rest of that MSM narrative is a little more difficult. We have to get somewhat fringe (I think the best choice which still an award winning news paper):

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-bl…

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by  Kiwi Tim  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:59pm 1633233578

Your a typical facebook believer aren’t you. I keep seeing check Israel check Mexico. Yea i have they have hundreds of unvaxxed people dying a day whats your point? I guess the point is to sound believable so other idiots copy and paste your BS around further without having a clue what they are on about. 

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by  tim52  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:17pm 1633234666
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by  house hunter  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:49pm 1633222191

That's a shame.  Would have been beneficial to contain it in Auckland for a few more weeks.  At least then the rest of the country would have more incentive to get vaccinated as they saw daily cases increasing.

At this point the government should take these temporary measures:

- Strengthen the Auckland/Northland border. They need to get those low Northland vaccine rates up somehow. 

- Introduce a border somewhere north of Wellington to keep Covid out of the Capital.

- Strengthen the South Island border by limiting travel to the South Island.

- Announce a date, let's say one month from now, when all these measures and internal borders will be removed.

 

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:46pm 1633221995

I agree but they don't want to give any dates or targets.

Be kind, please don't force people to do things ;)

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:52pm 1633222379

"Be kind, please don't force people to do things ;)"

Except get vaccinated ;)

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:26pm 1633231583

Yes I want a society that allows people to take drugs and believes in private property rights. Choice of women to have abortions etc. 

NOW TAKE YOUR VACCINE OR NO JOB OR FOOD OR CBDC. 

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:39pm 1633232375

The question is, do any of the things you have mentioned affect a multitude of other people in a negative way.

Drugs no, unless you get addicted you are just harming yourself, and the stats on the numbers who get addicted from taking drugs is quite small, even then some addictions still only harm the person affected.

Private property rights are set up in such a way to try and guarantee each owner undisturbed use, so you can do certain things but others that encroach on your neighbours enjoyment are generally limited.

Abortions are personal choice.

However by increasing your risk of getting the virus you increase your risk of passing it to others - not cool. You seriously increase your risk of needing hospitalisation - we all know how our health system coped with the latest RSV outbreak, it didn't. We have a socialised health system which relies on people not being greedy selfish dicks, and ensuring that the truly needy get sufficient access. Unvaccinated sick people don't meet my definition of genuinely needy at all.

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:08pm 1633237697

I'm pro choice but you could argue abortions have victims. 

Not cool.. Is the laptop class like you earning and having delicious food delivered to your home while others suffer both emotional and physical harm along with financial harm due to lockdown. 

Not cool.. To allow banks to create money to blow up asset prices and further punish the poor. Pretty arrogant of you.

Do I think my human rights should be takin away and my job destroyed while you are not effected? You sir are a heartless piece of... 

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:48pm 1633240088

Can you please explain why any of that has been addressed to me personally? None of it relates to the discussion above and you know jack about me and my personal circumstances.

For 1, I am not a sir.

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:02pm 1633244561

Here is a recent study in the US that looks at break through infections in vaccinated vs unvaccinated people. There will be more and more those coming I assume. Results from this regarding the cycle threshold show no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated. This means vaccinated people carry about the same viral load. Which makes your argument that unvaccinated people spread the virus more than vaccinated people look really silly.

During July 2021, 469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure). Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%). Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported. Real-time reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) cycle threshold (Ct) values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median = 22.77 and 21.54, respectively).

 

From the horse’s mouth… the Allmighty CDC in the US!

 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:30pm 1633253423

Congratulations, you found one incidence of a tiny sample size that confirms your bias.

How about this one that's newer, and actually controlled for variables and has a decent sample size:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7038e1.htm

Pfizer = 88% effectiveness against hospitalisation.

But hey if you want to take your chances that's up to you.

 

 

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:57pm 1633222625

As much as the outcome worries me, I think I completely agree that the government needs to call it and announce a date when everyone will move on with their lives. 

Nothing else will send the message more clearly that if you are unvaccinated you better back your decision or hurry on in to get the jab because you will be made responsible for your own decisions.

There's a part of me that wishes a small section of the country could experience a proper infection with accompanying deaths profile to send an even clearer message, but that's selfish, and to be fair, if people can't look at the death rates in other countries and draw their own conclusions they probably have other impediments to going and getting the vaccine.

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by  Foxglove.  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:34pm 1633232062

Stuff quotes the PM “The original outbreak we dealt with in Auckland through the efforts of Aucklanders, has essentially ended. And what we see now is a subsequent outbreak that has emerged”  Can someone please advise me what that actually means and what its significance is Especially the part that the outbreak in Auckland has ended. Given  every day most new cases have always been linked, what is the new link seeing as the old one is finished. Quite honestly that is one of the most nonsensical bits of obfuscation you could ever find.

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by  fmr ca  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:21pm 1633234891

The median age of death from Covid in Australia is 86. (Per their health department website up to 2 October).  One very elderly person has died so far of Delta in NZ.  Delta is not proving very deadly. It is very transmissable though and can be quite nasty, so that is the issue with hospitals potentially being overloaded, if too many are unvaccinated. I was happy to bring forward my second jab due to there being plenty of spots available now with demand for first jabs slowing. Booked and done within one day. The government needs to announce a freedom day before December, and end all restrictions once people have had the chance to be vaccinated.

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by  Mr_Jolly  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:46pm 1633236414

Far more people dying of the vaccine here than of COVID.

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by  Kiwi Tim  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:31pm 1633239117

Correct but the fact that you would repeat that as an argument shows how absolutely stupid you are. Millions have received vaccine only a couple thousand have had covid.

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by  Brutus Iscariot  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:07pm 1633223239

Covid needs to be in the capital. Half the problem is all the MPs sitting there in their smug L2, while the rest of us in Auckland chafe under the impact of their decisions. Get them in prolonged L4 or L3 and see how keen they are then.

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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:19pm 1633223962

Yeah they are free to swan in and out of their lovely tax funded lodgings, talk about woke things with their woke mates in trendy little cafes etc.

They need to experience some of their own bitter medicine.

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by  frazz  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:08pm 1633226903

2 wokes don't make a right

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:54pm 1633229657

They do make a very contradictory left though.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:34pm 1633224849

It is completely unsustainable, the Auckland lockdown that is.

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by  Dave Moderato  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:31pm 1633228267

It's coming. This latest Covid is heading south as we speak. Give it a week or two.

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:45pm 1633221936

Labour and Ardern making it up as they go.

This is not how you lead a country.

More people will get sick because they cant access healthcare due to lockdowns.

More people will lose their livelihoods.

While Ardern and co continues to get paid despite their poor performance. 

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by  Golfer  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:51pm 1633222260

What is the process for removing the PM? Does it need a majority of labour MPs to vote for a new leader? Maybe now is the time for a coup. Then National / ACT next election with Seymour as vice PM with ??. Similar to previous Tory/Lib Dem coalition in UK. 

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by  LASSET  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:36pm 1633225017

You're clearly not a fan, but this is delusional. Yes I'm really sure Labour MPs are going to stage a coup, when Curia's latest poll has Jacinda rating 51% as preferred prime minister. Seymour is 9%, and he's over double Collins.

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by  Zen20  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:54pm 1633222451

Sure dude but their poor performance is fattening your moneybags eh

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:14pm 1633223645

Yes, can't deny that. Who would've thought Labour would make the rich get richer.

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by  Nifty1  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:52pm 1633222328

The timing of this all is impeccable...Is it just a coincidence or what? RBNZ will surely have to hold longer...

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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:54pm 1633222494

I have been saying for weeks it is a line call. Bank economists and many here called an OCR rise 'a given.'

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by  Brutus Iscariot  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:10pm 1633223425

They won't wait. Look at the property market. It's primed for a melt up the likes of which we have never seen. 

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:12pm 1633223572

Lol

They need to reduce the number of times they can shift the OCR. Seems like each lockdown happens close to an OCR announcement.

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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:53pm 1633222412

Does anyone still think the OCR rise is 'a given'???

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by  Dave Moderato  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:32pm 1633228322

It never was a given!

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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:35pm 1633228532

Well all the bank economists have implied that it was.

And quite a few here.

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by  Halfway To Paradise  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:56pm 1633222565

I can’t see Orr raising OCR this week.

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by  Carlos67  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:11pm 1633223500

Well basically if the excuse to a no rise is Covid then that going to be a great excuse for the next 5 years because Covid is here to stay. Lockdowns are now a waste of time we have people wandering into middlemore hospital with problems not related to Covid and the tests are coming back positive. Its out in the community and its now widespread. There will be countless people sick at home with it that are not informing anyone. Its game over now its time for individual common sense to prevail and do what you need to do based on your risk profile.

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by  Rosenstein  |  3rd Oct 21, 1:57pm 1633222672

Delta meet NZs underfunded health system. Both sides of the aisle should take this one. This is systemic failure coming up. They did not provide the infrastructure for a free and fair society. They will come for your freedom to redirect from their failings as civil servants. They are authoritarians now. And they are starting to lose control. Beware!

 

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by  Carlos67  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:17pm 1633223844

Yep Billions wasted elsewhere when the Doctors and Nurses were told "there was no more money" to pay them more. Personally I would be wild if I was in the health sector. Now your going to be asked to step up and save the country after the labour government gave you the middle finger. No new hospitals, no increased staff, no attempt to keep existing staff from leaving but hey your crying out for extra shiftwork right ? 18 months to prepare just wasted.

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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:21pm 1633224104

Not just the Labour government mate. Successive governments, whether blue or red, have failed miserably.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:28pm 1633224536

Croaking Cassandra actually had a good post on the level of funding provided to health over the last 50 odd years through successive governments. Just one person's opinion / interpretation of the numbers, but it was an interesting read.

https://croakingcassandra.com/2021/09/29/health-spending/

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by  Rosenstein  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:36pm 1633224992

Not a single punch pulled to help the banks that never even got close to financial difficulty. The whole damn state apparatus couldn't act fast enough to ensure ANZ had liquidity. 

But Nurse Jenny feels like a felon just asking for better working conditions. 

Zero moral courage. Zero. Incompetent. Abusive. Patronizing. The leadership in NZ disgusts me. 

 

 

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:29pm 1633231793

Rosenstein 

Exactly. They shut society down to apparently save lives. Yet they allow banks to create money and transfer wealth and power on an obscene scale. That's why I don't trust the politicians on covid. 

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by  sunchap  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:26pm 1633224386

Delta has met last year's vaccine? US Senator Ron Johnson just released to the US Senate floor the scientific fact that 65% of the UK Covid (Delta) deaths in the last 7.5 months were double vaccinated:

 (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/boom-sen-ron-johnson-drops-tru…

Our PM is ignoring the world wide reality from the UK, Israel, Singapore and Victoria that the vaccines do not work. Resign now, before you destroy NZ.

 

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by  Squishy  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:45pm 1633225549

If true he is lying, here is last weeks ONS data from the UK [link]:

Deaths involving COVID-19 are consistently lower for people who have received two vaccinations. Between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 640 deaths involving COVID-19 in people who had received both vaccine doses (England), accounting for 1.2% of all deaths involving COVID-19 in that period (51,281 deaths).

...

Weekly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving COVID-19 are lower for people who received two vaccine doses than those who received one dose or were unvaccinated. ASMRs account for differences in population size and age of the vaccination status groups over time.

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by  house hunter  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:13pm 1633227185

So you're saying it's more claptrap from sunchap?

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:33pm 1633246433

That's really quite a significant reduction. Does it show average age of both categories? 

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by  LASSET  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:19pm 1633227587

If you would like to look at the data for yourself, the exact report Ron Johnson is quoting from, here it is. Unsurprisingly he's totally misrepresenting the information.

Public Health England - 1SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England -Technical briefing 23 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf

Yes he is correct in that of the overall deaths (2542) in that period, 722 were unvaccinated, and 1613 were fully vaccinated. This DOES NOT MEAN that the vaccine doesn't work.

90% of over 16yr olds in the UK are now at least partially vaccinated. There are simply not that many people who are not, ergo the number of them dying is lower.

From the same report it spells out that the vaccine effectiveness of Pfizer (after 2 doses) against hospitalisation is 95-99%. And 90-99% against mortality. Yes some people who are vaccinated will still die.

I'm going to spell this out for people like sunchap: If 100% of your population is vaccinated, 100% of those who die from Covid will also have been vaccinated!

You don't need to be a maths genius to understand this.

 

   

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by  printer8  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:36pm 1633232177

LASSET

Sunchap has absolutely no issue with repeating misreported or misinformation.

For some perverse reason - whether he thinks he is clever or funny - I am not sure. However his repeated comments suggest either gullible or deranged thinking. 

 

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by  fat pat  |  4th Oct 21, 6:44am 1633283049

Re: vaccine effectiveness of Pfizer (after 2 doses) against hospitalisation is 95-99%. And 90-99% against mortality

so pretty much identical percentages for those not vaccinated huh.  

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by  Nzdano  |  4th Oct 21, 7:54am 1633287266

Perhaps look into what vaccine efficiency means.

90% effectiveness means the vaccine is 10x, yes 1000% better, than being unvaccinated. 

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by  fat pat  |  4th Oct 21, 10:30am 1633296656

vaccine efficacy is generally reported as a relative risk reduction (RRR). It uses the relative risk (RR)—ie, the ratio of attack rates with and without a vaccine—which is expressed as 1–RR. Ranking by reported efficacy gives relative risk reductions of 95% for the Pfizer–BioNTech, 94% for the Moderna–NIH, 91% for the Gamaleya, 67% for the J&J, and 67% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford vaccines. However, RRR should be seen against the background risk of being infected and becoming ill with COVID-19, which varies between populations and over time. Although the RRR considers only participants who could benefit from the vaccine, the absolute risk reduction (ARR), which is the difference between attack rates with and without a vaccine, considers the whole population. ARRs tend to be ignored because they give a much less impressive effect size than RRRs: 1·3% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford, 1·2% for the Moderna–NIH, 1·2% for the J&J, 0·93% for the Gamaleya, and 0·84% for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines.

ARR is also used to derive an estimate of vaccine effectiveness, which is the number needed to vaccinate (NNV) to prevent one more case of COVID-19 as 1/ARR. NNVs bring a different perspective: 81 for the Moderna–NIH, 78 for the AstraZeneca–Oxford, 108 for the Gamaleya, 84 for the J&J, and 119 for the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccines. The explanation lies in the combination of vaccine efficacy and different background risks of COVID-19 across studies: 0·9% for the Pfizer–BioNTech, 1% for the Gamaleya, 1·4% for the Moderna–NIH, 1·8% for the J&J, and 1·9% for the AstraZeneca–Oxford vaccines.

read more here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8057721/

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by  Nzdano  |  4th Oct 21, 11:06am 1633298790

Do you disagree that the vaccine is highly effective against death from Covid?

If so you don't know how to read statistics.

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by  Final Account  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:27pm 1633228066

Reposting meticulously peer reviewed articles I see

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:34pm 1633228462

Has it occurred to you that if 100% of people were vaccinated, 100% of Covid deaths would be among the vaccinated?

Am I supposed to take it that the more people that get vaccinated the worse the vaccine works? Hmmm

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by  LASSET  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:48pm 1633229328

No. In case you're not being willfully ignorant, and this is a genuine question I'll explain.

Pfizer has the exact same effectiveness in each person, regardless of how many people in the population take it. Your protection as an individual is the same.

Against infection : 75-85% effective

Against symptomatic disease: 80-90% effective

Against hospitalisation: 95-99% effective

Against death: 90-99% effective.

 

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:55pm 1633229712

I was replying to sunchap, perhaps I needed a sarc tag

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by  LASSET  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:33pm 1633232023

Apologies! I'm losing my patience with some of the stupidity in abundance on here.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:41pm 1633232493

You and the rest of us

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:16pm 1633252614

Do you have the numbers for the non-vaccinated?

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:02pm 1633255379

No, but even that is unreliable, as vaccination rates skew towards higher risk people.

A vaccinated high risk person can remain at higher risk than someone that's unvaccinated and low risk to start with.

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:13pm 1633256026

Thanks for that, but my question was for LASSET.

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:24pm 1633256690

LASSET's numbers are improvements of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. E.g 75-85% of infections are prevented in the vaccinated. 0% of infections are prevented in the unvaccinated.

 

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by  Dale Smith  |  4th Oct 21, 12:02am 1633258933

Thanks not what I was asking? I'm sure LASSET doesn't need you to reply for them unless you are also LASSET?

And it's their choice as to whether they wish to reply or not.

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by  streetwise  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:29pm 1633224598

This site is a hotbed of anti-vax anarchists.

Looking back at the whole process of fighting a pandemic:

Firstly, apply a complete lockdown; this lesson was successfully applied 800 years ago during The Black Death; google: Ragusa.  (Ragusa is now called Dubrovnik, in Croatia)

Secondly, vaccinate everybody as soon as vaccination available; those vaccinated should carry evidence of it.  Those not wishing to be vaccinated should not be able to travel anywhere by any means within New Zealand, or fly into and out of New Zealand.  Benefits should be stopped and only restarted only on evidence of vaccination. (This would certainly identify many of the hold-outs). Those non-vaccinated flouting the rules should be isolated in MIQ indefinitely until the pandemic has passed or until sufficient numbers are vaccinated (at least 90% of the population). It should be illegal for employers to employ the unvaccinated.

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by  GV 27  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:55pm 1633226136

If the Govt wouldn't curb benefits to get people to get their own children vaccinated against things like measles or rubella than they aren't going to stop benefits for Covid. 

Running interference and telling those who refuse to engage with polite society that nothing is ever their fault for decades is about to bite us on the arse. The people we've effectively handed a licence to do what they like to don't listen to 1pm press conferences and won't obey any lockdown rules you put in place.

 

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:06pm 1633230404

It should be illegal for banks to create money and blow up assets causing mass inequality. 

Streetwise are you suggesting a papers please society? This is not the plague. I suppose you support central banks running the show with our vaccine passports and UBI. 

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:10pm 1633230608

Streetwise 

What you suggest is not a choice. If unvaccinated can't work or travel or refused services they die. That's not a choice that's clayton. I suppose you support big govt and govts controlling everything. How can covid has such a large recovery rate? Your comments are disturbing and actually if enforced is 1984.

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:24pm 1633231474

Seem also a hotbed of totalitarian regime promoters. It is exactly your kind of naive quoting of fragments of history to argue for a suspension of basic human rights you so readily enjoyed to date. Beware that once you loose that one fundamental right, the next one lost will affect you more than you can imagine now. Only fools without capacity for a little foresight or understanding what history shows you about totalitarian rules, would argue for the things you list in your post. 

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by  dumbthoughts  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:11pm 1633237912

This is where I'm struggling. I'm not anti-vax (had my first, awaiting my second - all my family is done too) and I wear my mask while out and about and scan in diligently, but I'm finding it really depressing to feel like I have to lump myself in with the authoritarian pro-vax contingent. I don't want to be associated with those who seem to think that the idea of scanning in for the rest of our lives, or presenting a Covid pass to go the pub or movies, is a good idea. All of these restrictions should be as temporary as possible.

I also hate the argument that anti-vaxxers are holding the country hostage. The only hostage takers are the incompetents walking the halls of the Beehive (and the public servants giving them advice). They alone have the power to end the lockdown. With the stroke of a pen the government could eliminate all restrictions overnight. That doesn't mean there would be no health consequences - most all of us understand that - but the power to "free the hostages" is something that none of us ordinary plebs have.

How are you supposed to reconcile this position? Today is the first day in this whole pandemic I have truly felt depressed about the future.

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by  Kiwi Tim  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:36pm 1633239390

I hear you and completely understand and somewhat agree. The only thing is these lockdowns buy us a little time for vax rates. Afew months ago i wouldnt have really cared but now i have a 4 week old son its more of a concern. I know he will be fine when he gets it as in wont die. But what about life long lung issues? What if a good treatment is found soon? What if there are no hospital beds for him due to a heap of unvaxxed people?

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:05pm 1633241116

If mum got vaccinated while pregnant your child will have some conferred immunity is what the latest study is saying. I'm due in march and am trying to hold out for a 12 week gap so long as it's not rife in my immediate community, in order to obtain the best immunity for my child.

But agree that the anxiety the situation causes for new families is tough. Especially mum, she will be hormonally responding to every situation with a very strong child protection lens that is impossible to dial down. That's when you want your community behind you, knowing that you've all done what you can to reduce the risks.

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:38pm 1633246704

We are all affected by covid. Life sucks yes. But we are not currently suffering from over whelmed health systems. Have not come close. 

Time to open up. 

 

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by  vDub  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:20pm 1633245635

Now now, calm down, we do not live under a dictatorship and New Zealand most certainly would not have a right to stop non NZ citizens from leaving the country to return home, vaccinated or not. The best we can do is be responsible for protecting ourselves and not worry what our fellow neighbors are doing. People's medical status is private and has nothing to do with anyone else. 

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by  Fluffybunny  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:40pm 1633246845

It does when people's lack of getting a vaccine stops me from leaving my house. Then it's a public matter 100%. Everyone reading this needs to check in with all your family, friends, Co workers and if you hear of anyone not at least booked in now, give them an earful. 

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by  C_T_20  |  4th Oct 21, 1:57am 1633265871

I think you are deranged making those comments, just like ‘Streetwise’! Not to mention you are inciting hate and personal persecution because someone insists on their basic human right, plain and simple. I will write to David Chaston as a long time financial supporter. I think your and ‘Streetwise’ kind of comment should have no place here.

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by  Fluffybunny  |  4th Oct 21, 7:25am 1633285533

Arnt you the one posting anti vax comments everywhere?

Settle down buttercup. Adults are talking. 

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by  fat pat  |  4th Oct 21, 7:13am 1633284802

This site is a hot bed of true believers.  Covid and climate change have something in common in that they attract a religious following. For covid it’s the religious belief that vaccination equals protection, for climate change it’s the religious belief that carbon dioxide emissions cause global temperature increase.  The facts don’t matter anymore.  I could point out that the Uttar Pradesh province in India, with a population of 200 million people, has a vaccination rate of only 11% and their covid rates have abated to almost nothing.  I could point to all sorts of data points and papers but it doesn’t matter to the covid zealot.

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by  Nzdano  |  4th Oct 21, 8:03am 1633287792

Yep you could point to a whole lot of conspiracy theory websites and manipulated statistics.

But you would be wrong, because the vaccine works.

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by  Squishy  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:33pm 1633224814

I think New Zealands government needs to move on releasing measures and not be held hostage by the anti-vaccine brigade. First jab numbers indicate the rate of progress will be glacial within six weeks.

We have already almost equally divided the country in population terms under lockdowns and it's time to move forwards together.

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by  PonziKiwi  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:59pm 1633229990

Agreed

So long as we don't have a show me your papers society. .

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by  bw  |  3rd Oct 21, 2:57pm 1633226237

In the grand scheme of "Never let a good crisis go to waste!" we (collectively) haven't.

We must have manufactured, what, 50 trillion dollars worth of new debt since March last year? And who gets to pay that back? You and me - one way or another (and the 'another' way is well advocated in many of the above comments - societal and legal breakdown.)

Swine Flu was a shocker, but we didn't take that opportunity to manufacture debt when it presented itself. With Covid, we did.....

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by  Waikatohome  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:07pm 1633226871

Parts of Waikato have been in level 3 for weeks. Auckland regional border is pukekohe. Auckland COVID border is Mercer in Waikato. Along with Waikato towns of Pokeno, Tuakau and Port Waikato. Nice to have some fellow Waikato residents for company. Put the whole North Island to level 3 and SI to level 1. 

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by  GV 27  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:42pm 1633228975

You realise the South Island has had L2 connectivity with the whole LNI, which you seem to think warrants being into L3. If that is the case then there is substantial enough risk to justify keeping the SI at L2.

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by  Just a farmer  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:01pm 1633233689

Honestly surprised more of the Waikato has not been lumped into the Auckland region before now. 

I live in Te Kauwhata and 80% of people in my street work in Auckland, with the majority of them being essential workers and continuing to commute daily. 2 nurses from MiddleMoore hospital in my street etc. I’m a truck driver crossing the Auckland-Waikato border daily etc.

Covid getting into the Waikato was pretty inevitable.

Not to mention with the border at Mercer, all Te Kauwhata residents for example, need to go shopping in Hamilton or Huntly instead of Pokeno, Pukekohe or Manukau which further helps spread it further South.

To make matters worse, getting tested and vaccinated is a pain as well, the Waikato has not been set up for it until now. Can’t even book in and get a Covid test at my local GP at a time of your choosing, so makes it hard when you have to go for work. I have been finding drive through testing centres in Auckland for the last few weeks, and had to drive 20 minutes down to Huntly for a vaccination. (Only reason there is a vaccination centre in Huntly is because of the high Maori population and high poverty).

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by  HouseMouse  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:05pm 1633237530

That's a bloody big commute for essential workers, who do pretty stressful and tiring work. Just saying.

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by  Just a farmer  |  4th Oct 21, 12:34pm 1633304075

Depends on shift patterns and traffic, but about 45-50min to Middlemore hospital for example. All easy motorway driving so it doesn’t feel too bad I don’t think. Under half an hour to Pukekohe where my job is based as well.

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by  Warwick D  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:25pm 1633227936

Makes a mockery of Robertson's briefing statement of a few days ago when, after daily community cases had dropped from 45 to about 19 he said it was pleasing that case numbers had stabilised but that we shouldn't get complacent.  Hopefully he has a better handle on the economy because his assessment of the Covid numbers was woefully 'out to lunch' it seems.  

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by  Brock Landers  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:06pm 1633255610

Given the issues with counting calories, I'm sensing a problem with basic numeracy.

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by  Northern Lights  |  3rd Oct 21, 3:39pm 1633228791

If a strategy isn't working you change it. 

Cases are not being picked up until the people concerned are so sick they go to hospital to prevent themselves dying. The govt needs to face the fact that voluntary testing of concerned citizens is not reaching the people who have been infected.

The only way I can see to reach the infected people is to go door to door in the affected suburbs with mandatory saliva tests and plot every household on a kind of health census map. You will then have the information you need to see where the virus is. 

The govt needs to get over the wokeness that is holding it back. The Island leaders have been asking the govt to go door to door. The actual people who are being stigmatised by this outbreak are now understanding that the best way to get rid of this unwanted attention is to take the practical measures actually required to get the situation under control.

First doses are a pretty good  indication that people intend to get fully vaccinated. From the Ministry of Heath website - 

First dose administed by ethnicity per 1000 people

Asian     944

European    797

Pacific Peoples    716

Maori          558

 

As Maori start to get sick in greater numbers they will start to  understand, just as the Islanders at the front line have started to understand, this - their friends that weren't vaccinated got sick and some of them will have inflammatory  issues for life while their friends that were vaccinated didn't get so sick and won't have the problems with reduced lung capacity, muscle problems and brain damage that the others have.

They will also start to understand that getting a better job will be a lot more difficult if you are not vaccinated and younger or less talented workers will be promoted ahead of them because they are not vaccinated.

I have a friend who's European sister has part Maori children. She is very anti-vax. Her kids (late teens early twenties) are ignoring their mother and have gone and got their first dose because they have got jobs, like the money they are getting and have no intention of losing their jobs because of the beliefs of their mother.

 

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by  sunchap  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:50pm 1633233051

It appears that the unwashed masses here, and British soccer fans, have realised that the vaccine's efficacy against infection is down to 8% after about 6 months; www.fil.ion.ucl.ac.uk/spm/covid-19/forecasting/forecasting_010821.pdf. And everywhere there is mass vaccination there is a mass outbreak; eg amongst the woke geniuses at Harvard, probably because vaccination drops immunity for a week or two. Infection with Covid, however gives lifelong immunity.

This is why I believe that the best option was always the Swedish option, who now have basically no Covid. Our PM is learning the hard way that you can only, "move the curve to the right", as there (still) has never been a successful vaccine against a coronavirus. The virus mutates even more frequently than our PM lies.

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by  lfk  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:14pm 1633234473

I know I shouldn't be feeding the sunchap-troll, but I can't help when they say things like "Infection with Covid, however gives lifelong immunity."

I'd like to know how people have managed to come up with that sort of poppycock when there is clearly no data for lifelong immunity periods given how recent covid is (not to mention how there are reported cases of people contracting covid more than once).

I had found the comment section mildly interesting before with the debate raging in here but lately (since the comments came back online) it has been getting really bad. If it carries on any longer, it might be easier just to put a filter in so the comments can be sorted by covid or not covid so I can actually read relevant financial commentary.

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by  sunchap  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:52pm 1633236749

It is funny how the most abusive people never cite any research such as this one; Breakthrough Infections of SARS-CoV-2 Gamma Variant in Fully Vaccinated Gold Miners, French Guiana, 2021 - PubMed (nih.gov), which states that previous infection with Covid is "far superior" at preventing infection than the "vaccines".

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by  LASSET  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:03pm 1633237393

You seem unable to see the wood for the trees. I don't think there is much debate that prior infection is very helpful in preventing re-infection.

The problem with that, is you have to catch COVID the first time. Along with the serious risks that brings with it.

You are welcome to go overseas and get yourself infected. I'll just get vaccinated thanks.

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by  C_T_20  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:33pm 1633246398

The real problem is that risks are seriously overstated. A few countries now, notably Denmark last week, dropped restrictions completely and accept that Covid mortality long term is the same as the annual flu we had for decades now. So why do we need these hysterical cries for mandatory vaccination, issue covid vaccine passports, deny people healthcare, deny basic human rights to refuse an experimental treatment, etc…? If you could provide just one justfication for NOT following those countries now enjoying restriction free life without any of the above cited curtailing of basic freedoms?

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by  Waikatohome  |  3rd Oct 21, 9:02pm 1633248141

Those countries have had COVID in the community for over a year and therefore most of the population is either vaccinated, had the disease and recovered, or had the disease and died. NZ has not been widely exposed yet. Therefore the non vaccinated are sitting ducks and will clog up the health system. If the anti vaccers would be kind enough to sign a medical waiver agreeing not to go to hospital, I suppose we would be safe to open up straight away. 

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by  sunchap  |  3rd Oct 21, 9:57pm 1633251444

Thanks for the back up CT. And very good point, with respect. I still do not understand why people on this site do not grasp the basic underlying reality; the IFR of Covid is only 0.15% ie the same as the flu. This comes from John Ioannidis, world renowned expert from Stanford and is a summary of about 15 peer reviewed papers. In addition Covid kills at the average age of 80. The flu kills at an average age of 55.

Why the panic from this country  - which fought in the Libyan desert in '42 against real killers? Open up.

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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:20pm 1633252854

maybe you check on the stats before you make comparisons

Mortality rate for influenza and pneumonia in New Zealand - Figure.NZ

COVID-19 vs. the Flu | Johns Hopkins Medicine

The COVID-19 situation continues to change, sometimes rapidly. Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19. At present, it is thought to be substantially higher (possibly 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu.

 

 

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by  LASSET  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:31pm 1633235514

It's truly amazing how from his own data source, Suncrap pulled out the least relevant piece of information.

 

"Current estimates of the vaccination efficacy are:

preventing exposure to infection: 8.0%

preventing transmission (ability to pass on) following infection 81.7%

preventing serious illness when symptomatic (age 15-34) 73.8%

preventing serious illness when symptomatic (age 35-70) 48.6%

preventing fatality when seriously ill 93.8% "

 

"The corresponding cumulative (vaccinated vs. unvaccinated) risks are:

relative risk of infection 92.0%

relative risk of mild illness 49.0%

relative risk of severe illness 18.1%

relative risk of fatality 1.1%

For example, vaccination reduces the risk of being infected and developing a severe illness to 18.1% of the risk prior to vaccination."

 

Thus yes you can still catch it, but it's highly unlikely you will catch it from someone who is vaccinated, or pass it on to someone else. And you are significantly unlikely to get seriously ill, and extremely unlikely to die. I'm not sure how he thinks this proves his point.



 

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by  Carlos67  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:37pm 1633239420

Well it all comes down to whether or not you believe the number stated or not. Personally I don't believe anything out there anymore, just going with my gut feeling and a personal health assessment. 

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by  house hunter  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:09pm 1633241395

Amazing or predictable?

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by  sunchap  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:29pm 1633253379

Unfortunately 8% is a very important number, as it means the vaccine basically does not actually stop you catching Covid at all after six months. And in fact this statistic has recently turned negative ie vaccination creates higher rates of Covid. Israel now has twice as many cases as last year ie 20,000 per day rather than 10,000 per day, BECAUSE they are heavily vaccinated. Are you their scientific adviser/people killer?

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:46pm 1633254399

Oh well, if you want to take the 1000% higher chance of dying unvaccinated vs someone vaccinated, go for it.

When the hospitals overload I imagine the unvaxxed will be right at the top of the "triage out" list.

All the best

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by  Fluffybunny  |  4th Oct 21, 8:25am 1633289109

Your missing the wider picture. This is not ebola and It does not have to be 100% effective now.

It has to be effective enough to avoid mass casualties with only medium level restrictions (say level 2 + easier travel) 

It only needs to last to mid late next year when the next generation of vaccines are released.

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by  Cheetahlegs66  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:51pm 1633236666

Please ensure you both understand the citations you quote and ensure the link works? Your credibility will be enhanced by the passive third person. Never "I think." That is akin to me saying " I think you're  a dork." Completely unacceptable. 

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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:28pm 1633253280

they tried that in clover park and only seven out of a hundred people wanted to be tested , and you are right we need to change the way we do things , learn from overseas and in the UK they have free home testing kits , yes they are not as accurate but seem like a good tool,  why are we dragging the chain on antigen tests for situations,  again not as accurate but proven if used regularly (daily) become more accurate ie beginning of shifts for workers.  

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by  Tigadee  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:16pm 1633231010

I don't get it - Covid hits the elderly, overweight and those with conditions like heart, lungs, blood sugar, etc the most. If these people protesting against vaccination have so much energy, then please put that energy into getting healthy so when - not if, but WHEN - they get the Covid, they don't suffer as much...

As a doctor said, Covid's gonna be around since it mutates like crazy just like the flu. And if you have the conditions mentioned above, Covid will be more serious for you. And just like the flu, you WILL get Covid sooner or later.

Vaccination helps if not prevent infection, then at least minimises the effects of the illness and drastically reduces your chances of death. So since you're gonna get it sooner or later, why not just go get the vaccine? This doctor is against mandates and passports, but he is for vaccines - he and his family are vaccinated and he recommends it for all his patients.

And the more who are vaccinated, the less likely we'll be in lockdowns in the future. Look at the UK,  Israel Norway and Singapore. They said "Stuff it! Just get as many vaccinated as we can and we'll deal with it as best we can. We can't lockdown with every outbreak any more."

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:37pm 1633253866

While I agree with you on all those comorbidities for increasing infection and death, they can't be that important as the solutions haven't been mentioned by any of the Ministry of Health, or the politicians, in fact Bacon Butties have been used to encourage vaccination.

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by  kiwichas  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:40pm 1633232430

Time for a no vax, no admission to ICU with covid policy??

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:51pm 1633254675

When they run out of space they'll have to decide who gets care and who doesn't, I can't imagine vaccination status will be ignored.

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:08pm 1633255723

So you really expect Doctors to go against their Hippocratic Oath?

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by  Nzdano  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:12pm 1633255953

What's that got to do with it?

When overwhelm happens not everyone can be treated.

As evidenced by Italy early in the pandemic it won't be first in first served. Look into wartime triaging.

 

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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:15pm 1633256135

that already happens in our health system 

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:50pm 1633258238

They will treat them on a first come first serve basis, and only if the system gets overloaded, would they then prioritize on a survivability basis. Whether they are vaccinated or not won't come into it.

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by  Nzdano  |  4th Oct 21, 8:30am 1633289427

Take the following situation.

One bed

Two Covid cases come in.

Same seriousness of disease.

Same age.

Same general health.

One vaccinated. One not

How do you think they will select who to treat?

 

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by  sharetrader  |  4th Oct 21, 9:07am 1633291633

they will weight it up and for your example they will pick the person that is likely to survive the other they will offer pallative care, they already do this with cancer patients 

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by  Dale Smith  |  4th Oct 21, 9:43am 1633293800

Exactly, their vaccination status will have no bearing on the care given.

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by  Nzdano  |  4th Oct 21, 11:09am 1633298987

All else being equal, how will they decide then?

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by  Fluffybunny  |  4th Oct 21, 8:28am 1633289302

Social structure doesn't support that kind of view. It's like saying we won't treat car accident victims who don't wear seat belts 

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by  Carlos67  |  3rd Oct 21, 4:41pm 1633232479

The narrative from Labour is already shifting gear I hear. Its time to start blaming the low vaccination rates and people that have not been vaccinated. People that now get Covid are being shamed if they have not been vaccinated. I doubt we will hear a single case of someone who has been vaccinated and is still spreading the virus. The government has obviously done a great job, its time to start blaming the anti-vaxers for the lockdown not working.

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by  Solve_it  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:02pm 1633233746

The reality is things are going to get messy whatever we do. The question will be, did you do everything you could to avoid this, and that will be a national and personal question.

The vaccine will undoubtedly help reduce the scale of the cluster, so people can talk about civil rights till their blue in the face. If you're choosing not to get vaccinated at this point in time with no medical grounds, I think you're a douche, and it's safe to assume the majority on nz'ers do too.

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 6:36pm 1633239379

Honesty anti vaxxers can say what they want. They should be barred from receiving public health if they get COVID. Their choice. Their lives. Their rights, right!

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by  Noncents  |  3rd Oct 21, 5:00pm 1633233640

Yes, it is a bit rich when most people were not vaccinated due to Govt Policy.

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by  mja  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:00pm 1633240849

The concern is that immunity begins to wane 4 months post second vaccination. Health care workers and the vulnerable in general received their second dose in April /May. So the healthcare workforce and the vulnerable population's immunity level is dropping week by week. As the government fights tooth and nail to talk those who do not want to be vaccinated into being vaccinated. 

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by  kiwichas  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:15pm 1633241721

Dr Ayesha Verral,Associate Minister has not ordered 

boosters ,in her own words,"in case we might not need them"

And they are hanging out for Novovax just in case it might be approved(Medsafe is incredibly slow).

I think front liners should be boosted by Xmas, especially the older ones...

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by  donny11  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:38pm 1633253885

Wow can't believe they haven't ordered pfizer boosters for the over 65s  for feb/March next year.  I just assumed they would have. This will be a mistake.

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by  Somebloke  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:01pm 1633240917

Akl you are in lockdown for the benefit of the nation. Waikato you are in the same lockdown, but we aren't going to make, you know, whatever works for you. Is that a gun inside your patch jacket?

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by  Befuddled  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:40pm 1633243205

No one ever appreciates something given freely, as its value has not been established. Perhaps this cuts even further, when something is free and mandatory.

Should these risk reducing shots should become scarce, and relatively expensive: would we see a real scramble for them then?

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:44pm 1633243454

Maybe I have missed the news release on this, but does anyone know how many PMs in each party have been vaccinated?

I would have thought all 100% of MPs would have been fully vaccinated by now, you know, not just for their own safety, but it would seem hypocritical to tell others to do something you wouldn't do - leadership comes from the top down and all that...

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by  lfk  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:27pm 1633246020

The herald reported on it recently https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-the-90-project-wh…

As of 17 September:

A stocktake has revealed just four of our MPs are yet to receive a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

Meanwhile, nearly half of Parliament's 120 members are now fully vaccinated. The rest have received one dose or are booked in for one.

The rates of 97 per cent for at least a single dose and 45 per cent fully vaccinated compare to 73 per cent and 38 per cent respectively nationally.

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by  sharetrader  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:30pm 1633253409

would love to know the breakdowns

party

ethnicity

 

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by  Dale Smith  |  3rd Oct 21, 10:49pm 1633254580

Thanks for that.

Wouldn't you think, each party would be going direct to all their members happily saying 'look what we have done (get vaccinated) we encourage you too as well.

Maybe they are looking at all the non-vaccinated as potential votes?

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by  FCM  |  3rd Oct 21, 7:47pm 1633243663

Let it go jacinda, the Aussies told you that once delta is here you won't eliminate it. If you can't accept this then can you and Bloomfield step aside. Your ideology is blurring your vision of reality. Remember jacinda it got out of MIQ, so stop punishing everyone for your incompetence

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 8:43pm 1633247001

Bang on FCM.

The media doesn't even bother to investigate or ask the tough questions.

Ardern and co have failed the second half so badly that it is costing jobs, the economy and people's general health other than COVID. They have undone all the good work from the first half.

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by  WellingtonInvestor  |  4th Oct 21, 1:23am 1633263813

Except Queensland eliminated their outbreak. As did South Australia. Sydney were far too slow and Victoria has spent almost a year in lockdown. So what was Aucklands excuse when we went into lockdown quickly, and only had a few months in lockdown in the last few years? Lack of enforcement and lack of dobbing people in.

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by  NZChinese  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:16pm 1633256219

The Auckland lockdown has failed, a small number, but enough people didn't give a rat ass, and Labour allowed them to do whatever they wanted. It created a ribble effect. The complete vaccination rate won't achieve the 80% until mid of Nov. The 90% goal might never happen as Maori has a significantly low vaccination rate, plus we don't know what the latest covid bed capacity looks like. Sit tight, and we will get some turbulence from here. 

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by  WellingtonInvestor  |  4th Oct 21, 1:20am 1633263621

I think the governemnt didn't know what to do about them. The ministry of health also seems to be out of touch with these demographics and is failing to engage. There is a massive problem when the Maori vaccination rate is in the 50s, when the Asian rate is in the 90s.  

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by  flyer  |  3rd Oct 21, 11:32pm 1633257170

Ardern, Hipkins and Bloomfield will not be around next election if Xmas 2021 is taken from us.

They are fighting for their careers.

I suspect they have blown their massive half time lead.

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by  lostinawoods  |  4th Oct 21, 3:29am 1633271364

Don't worry, they'll do 3 days level 2, one more public holiday, some $25+ to benefits and all the votes are back.

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by  AndrewRiddell5886  |  4th Oct 21, 8:35am 1633289750

Past time for increased financial support during this lockdown for beneficiaries and the low waged.

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