Current Covid-19 alert levels to remain in place for another week; No sign of new types of financial support

Current Covid-19 alert levels to remain in place for another week; 'in-principle' decision made to move Auckland to Level 3 at 11:59pm on September 21; $2.3b in business support payments made to date

13th Sep 21, 4:13pm by Jenée Tibshraeny

New Zealand's current Covid-19 alert level settings will remain in place until 11:59pm Tuesday, September 21.

Cabinet has made an "in-principle" decision for Auckland to move from Level 4 to Level 3 thereafter.

No decision has been made around whether the rest of New Zealand will move down from 'Delta Level 2' next week.

The settings will be reviewed on Monday, September 20.

In summary, Auckland remains at Level 4 and the rest of New Zealand at Delta Level 2 until at least 11:59pm September 21.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said that while there isn’t widespread transmission in Auckland, mystery cases are still popping up.

Of all the new cases detected in the past fortnight, 17 are unlinked. Only a small number of these are concerning to officials.

Nonetheless, Ardern said it was worrying there are still cases emerging via community or surveillance testing, rather than through contact tracing.

She said Level 4 is working.

The R value is consistently below 1, falling from 6 at the start of the outbreak in New Zealand. This means positive cases are passing the virus onto fewer than one other person, on average.

Ardern asked residents in Mt Eden, Massey, Mangere, Favona, Papatoetoe, Otara and Manurewa to be especially vigilant.

She said New Zealand - outside of Auckland - is being kept at Delta Level 2 to contain the possible spread of the virus should it leak out of Auckland.

Around 3000 essential workers are being permitted to travel in and out of Auckland every day.

The Ministry of Health reported 33 new Covid-19 cases in the community on Monday.

Of these, only one wasn't epidemiologically linked, meanwhile seven were part of the same household.

The total number of cases in this outbreak is 955.

No sign of new types of support being made available to businesses

Ardern wouldn’t be drawn on whether businesses can expect to receive more financial support above what’s already being provided.

Businesses throughout the country can from Friday file applications for a third round of the Wage Subsidy (paid in two-weekly lump sums), as well as another Resurgence Support Payment.

The Resurgence Support Payment was initially a one-off payment, but is now being made available every three weeks.

Businesses need to prove they’ve experienced falls in revenue to receive either payment.

Almost $1.8 billion in Wage Subsidies and $531 million in Resurgence Support Payments have been paid since the start of this outbreak.

Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni acknowledged there were delays paying the Wage Subsidy for around 9% of the 427,000 approved applications.

“The applications taking longer are largely sole traders. The reason for this is mostly due to data in the application not matching with data held by Inland Revenue,” she said.

“It is really important that businesses make sure the details they provide Ministry of Social Development match the details held on their business by Inland Revenue. This small check will mean they receive support as quickly as possible…

“MSD is working with applicants and Inland Revenue on resolving these as quickly as possible. This includes calling an average of 7,000 applicants a day to check information and working with them to make the changes needed to get their application processed.

“Over 25,000 delayed applications for the initial wage subsidy have been processed over the past week.”

Eligible businesses can receive $600 a week for each full-time employee and $359 a week for each part-time employee via the Wage Subsidy.

Meanwhile they can receive $1,500 plus $400 per full-time employee, up to a maximum of 50 employees, via the Resurgence Support Payment.

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134 Comments

by donny11 | 13th Sep 21, 4:16pm 1631506601

Looks like the end of elimination.

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 4:21pm 1631506865

Ditto, without Ardern saying those very words.

Good news they are seeing the light.

NZ is not special, Delta doesn't discriminate by country,

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 4:34pm 1631507697

DPM Robertson as reported earlier today in Herald. “He promised the government would to make sure it laid out a very clear plan for Aucklanders this afternoon.”Well there it is. Seven days worth of status quo, that’s a plan alright. Can’t argue with that. But some might have preferred more long than short plans, or even the alternative plan. For instance if Auckland’s present circumstances have not altered by next Tuesday week how can a reduction to level 3 then take place. And the same question for the week after and the week after. If that situation transpires, then the plan must be out of necessity to to stay in level 4 surely while it lasts . Why not front up and say it then. We are getting into propaganda territory here, and there is no lying that is more galling and grating, than lying by omission.

by custard | 13th Sep 21, 5:17pm 1631510234

Ardern & Co have in effect admitted they’re fresh out of ideas now – just more of the same while looking to buy time before they pull the 70% vaccination trigger.

by dago | 13th Sep 21, 6:30pm 1631514609

They’re getting so desperate they’re using over 12 as their vaccination stat criteria.. even though the UK and USA have both said no to vaccinating that age group

by realterms | 13th Sep 21, 6:41pm 1631515289

The US is vaccinating 12+. The UK is the outlier on that point.

by Brock Landers | 13th Sep 21, 6:49pm 1631515742

And that's because... https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57888429

It says children are at such low risk from the virus that vaccination would offer only "marginal gain".

Not that you would know it from the coronavirus hysterics in this country.

by realterms | 13th Sep 21, 6:56pm 1631516192

You need a hobby mate.

Yes kids are at low risk. Doesn't mean that everyone is.

by Belle | 13th Sep 21, 7:26pm 1631518019

The put downs are getting old.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 21, 4:45pm 1631508302

I doubt it. Will the rest of the country want to get rid of the elimination strategy and share Covid with Auckland and have all the associated restrictions (and deaths) like they do in the US etc? If they can't eliminate in Auckland god knows what will happen...

by youngdumbandfullofit | 13th Sep 21, 5:21pm 1631510489

I reckon we'll get to a point we will be in a Level 3 limbo, and then if numbers decide to tick back up I reckon Level 4 with mass testing requirements. Where they'll maybe do a full on canvas of the whole region, hopefully they're on the sideline getting a tonne of those saliva tests ready so that more people will actually consider taking a test.

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 5:28pm 1631510909

Mass testing requirement? This isn't China. The govt can make people go get a test.

by dago | 13th Sep 21, 6:22pm 1631514160

Not yet but JA is closing in

by Pragmatist | 13th Sep 21, 6:41pm 1631515269

A public health order would do it,

A person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, a fine not exceeding $4,000, or both who in any way (directly or indirectly, by act or default)—

(...)

> fails or refuses to comply with, or delays complying with, a direction or requirement of a medical officer of health or any person authorised by a medical officer of health given in the exercise of powers or functions under section 70 or 71; or

by Pietro | 14th Sep 21, 8:56am 1631566578

The elimination strategy has gone. Ardern has said so, but not in as many words. Vaccination, masks, limit on group sizes, mandatory scanning. Hopefully travel will be back on the agenda.

by HouseMouse | 13th Sep 21, 5:53pm 1631512436

I don't think their decision implies that at all.

by Spike2 | 13th Sep 21, 4:20pm 1631506823

"in-principle" decision. Hahahaha

Man these people can SPIN!

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 4:22pm 1631506930

Too much pressure not to loosen restrictions.

Politics now taking over science.

Don't tell me she isn't worried about votes.

But a good decision, for people, businesses, livelihoods, and those needing urgent health care.

by David Murray1 | 13th Sep 21, 5:27pm 1631510831

"In Principle Decision" means "if everything works out how we want, and nothing turns to custard".

It's signalling that if Aucklanders do the right thing and not do stupid selfish stuff like fly to Wanaka via a drive to Hamilton.

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 5:29pm 1631510968

If Ardern doesn't wanna lose popularity then she will go down to level 3. Level 4 again means losing votes. Let's be realistic.

by graintrader | 13th Sep 21, 5:52pm 1631512349

I'd suggest Mother Hen's already lost the 1.20mio in the South Island. Another week of 2.5 outrageous!!!

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 21, 6:33pm 1631514799

Quite the opposite I think. Most NZers want elimination, it’s just the interest.co.nz comments section that thinks Covid is great.

by Pietro | 14th Sep 21, 9:00am 1631566829

We all want elimination. Sadly it’s not possible. It would need 100% honesty and compliance, I’m looking at you Ms Wiles and mystery Auckland couple (actually, no mystery if you know how to google), and an hermetically sealed border. Neither are achievable. Hence the almost panicky vaccination drive.

by Tigadee | 14th Sep 21, 10:46am 1631573181

Ummm Jimbo, YOU'RE in the comments section?

by 7jai | 13th Sep 21, 4:24pm 1631507074

Boom. As expected. Keep it up! Looking forward to next monday's news where we extend for another week....then another....and another.

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 4:26pm 1631507198

Doubt it. Do you think she is dumb enough to even make a slight promise then turn back and say no?

Although... who knows! She could be leading us down the garden path!

by Nifty1 | 13th Sep 21, 4:29pm 1631507396

There was no promise... it's an announcement about a pending announcement. We should be used this by now.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 4:39pm 1631507998

Not sure what alternative you want:

Say nothing at all
Make a promise and then break it, due to new compelling evidence showing it was the wrong decision
Give guidance as to what to expect, but reserve the right to change it if new evidence is compelling

Any other options?

by Spike2 | 13th Sep 21, 4:43pm 1631508187

Simple:

Talk straight, stop sugar coating everything.

Stop the spin

by the Joneses | 13th Sep 21, 4:45pm 1631508320

If you want the news, read the news. If you like listening to the PM, listen to the PM.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 21, 4:48pm 1631508495

They have done exactly that!

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:44pm 1631511884

So you just didn't like the words she used, then?

What do you want her to say:

"It is our plan to drop to level 3 at 11:59pm in Auckland on Tuesday 21 September, assuming no new developments arise that make that risky"?

Like seriously, tell me what words you want her to use to convey this concept. Because what she said was not really "spin".

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 5:54pm 1631512499

What is not said is more important than what is said. The rate of community cases is trending up again, not down. Even if that reversed it is not going to do so sufficiently within just seven days, to make the situation then markedly different from what it is today. So if level 4 is necessary now what will change to make it unnecessary in seven days time then? What’s the plan?

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:58pm 1631512684

I got the opposite impression from the PM's justification - that although the numbers looked bad on the surface, actually they aren't too scary with all the details and context (which they aren't sharing).

I've been annoyed about the lack of detail in the data they're sharing for the last 2 weeks.

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 6:07pm 1631513256

Aye, with you on that certainly myself! These are disquieting times, people are full of uncertainty and apprehension, have been so for a long time now and the absence of good substantive information, is simply an incubator for counterproductive and mischievous speculation that undermines the structure of our society.

by Flying high | 13th Sep 21, 7:17pm 1631517430

The precedent is wellington, which had cases but was allowed into L3. We also have to stop myopically focusing on 'cases', at some point we will accept that covid is part of life

by Casual Observer | 13th Sep 21, 10:53pm 1631530389

A written media release with details from MOH would suffice. Would have to be more succinct too.

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 5:05pm 1631509505

True a disclaimer such as “in principle” offers no alternative, and by including those two words, the message here, and the plan as promised by Robertson, offers nothing either.

by Nifty1 | 13th Sep 21, 5:04pm 1631509459

They knew from the outset this was going to be a long lockdown. Some real talk would good, none of this just 1 more week bullsh*t when they know it's going to be weeks/months.

Be bold- still awaiting this from Robertson & co.

Have a solid plan - one that should have been implemented months ago so we didn't get into this mess.

Uncertainty is a killer, especially if you're running a small business. Let's not mention the pending illnesses, deaths & poverty that come from this.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:49pm 1631512169

Some real talk would good, none of this just 1 more week bullsh*t when they know it's going to be weeks/months.

They literally do not know that right now.

I agree that at some earlier points, they could and should have been more indicative of where things were likely to go. But they're doing exactly that now, and you're still complaining.

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 6:39pm 1631515189

Not aligned with that. But nonetheless, what they have done is paint themselves into something of a corner by introducing a degree of expectation, ie level 3 next week. If the circumstances in play in Auckland at present are not substantively different for the better, in seven days time, how can they then justify a reduction to level 3. In other words they will need to explain why they offered the hope of that relaxation in the first place because in my view, given the trends to date, the chances of that improvement occurring in a seven day timeframe are wildly optimistic. Still, more than content to be proven wrong. Watch this space I guess.

by HouseMouse | 13th Sep 21, 5:58pm 1631512685

Maybe fair enough.

The other option is they think it will be at least 2 weeks but are saying what they have said for psychological reasons.

Which could be viewed as devious, or sound, depending on your viewpoint.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 6:18pm 1631513881

Saying it is 1 more week vs 2 more weeks could both be self-fulfilling prophecies.

by Nifty1 | 13th Sep 21, 7:01pm 1631516476

Each time they've extended level 4 its been an "in principle" decision - they just haven't said it. Weren't we always aiming to get down to level 3 each extension... I've lost track over how many extensions we've had now...we started at 7 days right?

by lostinawoods | 14th Sep 21, 2:27am 1631543229

Mate, can I get you a 🍻 in exchange for you posting less stuff here?

Seriously, 13 comments a day under a single post - 10% of all the messages - is too much, regardless of one’s point of view.

by RandomKiwi | 13th Sep 21, 4:40pm 1631508058

At every press conference they tighten the screws a little bit more. Each level gets a little more restrictive.

by dago | 13th Sep 21, 6:25pm 1631514323

Just following Australia. The restrictions they announced last week were in place in Victoria when I was there in June.

by Contrarian | 13th Sep 21, 10:11pm 1631527866

Aussie dished out spending money for the citizens to boost the economy during Covid.

Actually I would not mind $1000 each to every Auckland resident for tolerating this 5 weeks lockdown. We citizens also need some pay out, right ? Come on, Grant, do the right thing.

by nigelh | 13th Sep 21, 4:42pm 1631508139

Waiting to get those vaccinations up. Will keep Akl in at least level 3 for 2 weeks after drop from level 4, whenever that maybe.

by Contrarian | 13th Sep 21, 4:46pm 1631508410

Right. Message to Aucklanders and those outside. Get vaccinated and we shall see about loosening the restrictions. I remember reading what John Key said a few days back about vaccination lagging the plan. He said we need a shock for people to get vaccinated quickly before Christmas. Here, we have got the shock, let us get vaccinated and then roam about freely.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 21, 4:50pm 1631508611

Most vaccinated countries have similar restrictions to our level 2. Not many roaming about freely.

by Contrarian | 13th Sep 21, 5:09pm 1631509794

The optics from UK and a few other European countries suggests otherwise.

Even Sydney and Melbourne, people are thronging to beaches and other places.

by morepork | 13th Sep 21, 5:50pm 1631512224

Are beaches closed in level 2 here? I didn't think so. We took our kids to a outdoor playground on the weekend, it was packed due to the fine weather, would've been over 100 people there (kids and parents). Few masks to be seen. It wasn't getting shut down as it's allowed in the level 2 rules.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:50pm 1631512239

Even Sydney and Melbourne, people are thronging to beaches and other places.

Which you can do under level 2.

by Pragmatist | 13th Sep 21, 5:45pm 1631511934

But if we contain the current outbreak then we could go back to level 1, tighten up the border controls while get the vaccination levels up.

Would like to see a good surveillance random testing program, something like every week asking for people whose IRD or NHI ends in xx to get tested, and randomly selecting 10 to get $1000 cash.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:52pm 1631512333

Maybe. I think it'd be good if we had some less invasive test methods available for testing, once we're back at a level 1.

Also wastewater testing from multiple sites in a city each day (sites could cycle around between days).

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 7:09pm 1631516985

LOL, we will never go back to level 1. Delta will eventually be like any other.

Get vaccinated.

by Pragmatist | 13th Sep 21, 8:09pm 1631520544

I already am fully vaxxed. I think we can still get back to what is essentially level 1, if the next week shows declining new cases, but more importantly no new surprise unconnected cases.

by False economies | 13th Sep 21, 4:43pm 1631508234

I keep wondering what will happen in the scenario where the numbers keep bouncing along at 10 or 20 a day due to some people not following the rules or just "unlucky transmissions" while out legitimately. How long before something gives?

Fingers crossed the numbers will drop this week though.

by Sam Hill | 13th Sep 21, 4:46pm 1631508413

Level 4 ending “in principle” next Tuesday only means it will occur if everything goes as they hope. The problem is there are obviously undetected cases in the community. Whether these all turn up by next Tuesday or not is irrelevant - they exist and they will keep turning up. The government will either have to face up to the fact that that they can never control the actions of every Aucklander or continue with Level 4.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 21, 4:51pm 1631508706

They don't have to control everyone, its all statistics. The longer it goes on with an r value < 1, the more likely we will obtain elimination.

by the Joneses | 13th Sep 21, 4:53pm 1631508813

If it gets 'out of control' loose in NZ, it will be the start of the main part of the lockdowns, not the end. I don't think the vocal minority with fatalistic views on here understand that.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:52pm 1631512368

They don't understand a lot.

by dago | 13th Sep 21, 6:26pm 1631514407

They understand our PM is a nut job

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 7:06pm 1631516776

“the start of the main part of the lockdowns” let’s hope not, for that I believe would motivate sufficient of NZ’s population to say enough is enough and I say that because enough of those people can see, and whether justifiably or even wisely or not, and desire the same social activities as such as the UK, Denmark,Norway, France, Spain. Does it not strike anyone as ironic that there has been a role reversal from 12 months ago. NZ now does not have football crowds here, but over there they do. Virginia Wade can go from the UK sit and watch tennis in NY without a mask. In the face of that, regardless of their journey to date how long do you think New Zealanders are going to sit stoically in lockdown without a murmur.

by Brock Landers | 13th Sep 21, 7:09pm 1631516979

Music festivals across Europe have been in full swing. Not a mask in site. The world has moved on and NZ has been left behind.

by Flying high | 13th Sep 21, 7:20pm 1631517630

Did you ever think that wouldn't happen

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 10:33pm 1631529238

Not a mask in site.

Just hundreds of deaths a day.

by LASSET | 14th Sep 21, 8:44am 1631565863

Yes, you're right Brock. Having a music festival while a pandemic is still raging is an excellent idea.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-almost-5-000-coronavirus-cases-may-be-linked-to-boardmasters-music-festival-in-cornwall-12388990

by 7jai | 13th Sep 21, 4:55pm 1631508922

"In principle" means absolutely nothing to this government. Just like small businesses, inflated housing prices, and destroying the fabric of what makes NZ great.

They will find a way to spin it again if we are still hovering around 20-30 cases. "Level 4 another week". Just you watch.

by HouseMouse | 13th Sep 21, 6:03pm 1631513034

I would put money on level 4 being longer.

Wonder what the odds would be at the TAB? Who would be the favourite? Out of lockdown next Wednesday $2.10 mark versus stay in lockdown at say $2.60?

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 21, 6:30pm 1631514655

And they should. I’m sure that principle is based on the cases coming down as expected, if that doesn’t happen they will need to remain in level 4. they can’t predict the future but they can give an indication of what they expect.

by Sam Hill | 13th Sep 21, 6:50pm 1631515840

They only know about people that get tested. And they never admit when anything goes wrong until the media find out and publish it.

by Waikatohome | 13th Sep 21, 4:48pm 1631508502

Tuakau, Pokeno, Onewhero and Port Waikato are all in level 4. They are also all in Waikato (NOT AUCKLAND) but north of Mercer. Why didn't we get a nice thank you from Auntie Jacinda?

by Brock Landers | 13th Sep 21, 4:52pm 1631508721

Aroha. Be kind.

by Zen20 | 13th Sep 21, 4:58pm 1631509081

Thank you from Aotearoa

by Waikatohome | 13th Sep 21, 6:23pm 1631514203

Thank you Zen 20, I feel much better now, I haven't used capital letters in a post before, the home detention must be getting to me!

by Flying high | 13th Sep 21, 7:23pm 1631517833

Cheer up with an excursion to Huntly KFC

by Mr Pink | 13th Sep 21, 5:06pm 1631509575

What a joke for the rest of NZ

by PonziKiwi | 13th Sep 21, 5:11pm 1631509915

I'm just sick of the theatrics. Why not just tell us what's going down each time the PM performs her daily sermon.

I can't take the Rob Oakshot treatment every day on the rostrum.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:54pm 1631512491

To justify the announcement they're about to make. People STILL don't understand WHY things are being done. If they just made the announcement and stopped, many people would turn off, either physically or at least mentally, and not hear the justification.

The justification is extremely important for a leader, and getting broad public buy-in.

If you don't want to listen to it, then just go to one of the main news sites at 1:10pm and they'll have the decision along the top of the screen as breaking news.

by GV 27 | 13th Sep 21, 5:12pm 1631509952

Announcing L3 for next week is such a gimme. It's a free hit and an obvious way to make today's decision more bearable and ensure people stay committed for the next week.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 5:56pm 1631512566

Yip, and the right thing to do, re: comittment. Patience with lockdown does seem to be dwindling, and it's what all the experts said about a wave of continuing lockdowns, that they become less effective the longer they're in place. Humans are sometimes very predictable.

by donny11 | 13th Sep 21, 6:29pm 1631514595

Could backfire though. I mean who wants to go to MIQ when the "freedoms" of level 3 are within grasp.

by Halfway To Paradise | 13th Sep 21, 5:19pm 1631510347

I am just waiting for the announcement of a pregnancy to detract from the about-turn. It is becoming increasingly clear by her dress styles over the past few weeks something is being hidden.

by custard | 13th Sep 21, 5:32pm 1631511143

My goodness – I try to steer away from her dress sense as much as one is able.

The only thing being hidden currently is the truth as far as I can make out.

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 5:35pm 1631511304

Steady on. I have lost most of the respect I had for this PM, but such conjecture is nothing but a disrespectful invasion of privacy for any individual, regardless of who they might be.

by Zen20 | 13th Sep 21, 6:09pm 1631513383

OMG you've been listening to Bruce Russell again haven't you?!

by frazz | 13th Sep 21, 5:57pm 1631512631

Great to see John on the front lines helping National and the country fight the delta outbreak.....on no wait he is in Hawaii playing golf with Max?

by GV 27 | 13th Sep 21, 7:50pm 1631519407

Considering he hasn't been an MP for four years, I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make here is.

by Yvil | 13th Sep 21, 6:09pm 1631513340

I watched the whole announcement but I must have missed the critical data, the reason for the lockdowns, how many Covid deaths today? Does anyone know ?

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 6:11pm 1631513512

000000000000000000

by house hunter | 13th Sep 21, 6:12pm 1631513532

Not sure about today, but there were about 6000 yesterday.

by Yvil | 13th Sep 21, 6:26pm 1631514385

OMG that's terrible, were they all in Auckland ?

by Brock Landers | 13th Sep 21, 6:57pm 1631516279

Housing crisis should be resolved by the end of the week.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 6:20pm 1631514051

You belong to the school of "using the successful outcome of lockdowns as a reason to argue why we don't need lockdowns", right?

by ACB | 14th Sep 21, 9:56am 1631570162

You belong to the school of "quoting absolute numbers in highly populated nations rather than using properly derived excess morbidity rates by age cohort", right? The lack of statistical rigour around this is appalling. Even using crude numbers from this particular Covid outbreak, 1 death of someone in their 90's with co-morbidities and close to a thousand cases so far. We don't know the age of those few in ICU but they were unvaccinated I understand. The numbers offshore tell us that death rates were no where near 1918-19 (~0.5% vs 3-4%) and heavily skewed towards the elderly and obese etc. Now, with the most vulnerable having more than enough opportunity to be vaccinated, the excess morbidity numbers will plummet again. It's all about relative death rates, as we all die.

by Lanthanide | 14th Sep 21, 11:39am 1631576357

The debate is whether we should continue elimination or not. A comparable country to NZ may have had about 10,000 deaths by now if we'd not gone with elimination, but had taken the strategies other countries had. And that's just COVID deaths - many others would have died due to lack of medical attention from hospitals being flooded with COVID patients.

Suggesting we continue our elimination approach so we avoid the thousands of deaths suffered by other countries is a sensible argument that can be debated.

Saying "look, no one in NZ is dying, therefore we don't need lockdowns!" is totally illogical and backwards thinking. It's not a sensible argument worthy of debate, or really any consideration at all.

by ACB | 14th Sep 21, 12:57pm 1631581057

We've had a 1000 cases and 1 death, so far in this outbreak. I am not talking about what could have happened in 2020 when the virus was new and we had no vaccines (but even then, the death statistics on a per population basis in places such as India or Sweden, do not support a devastating pandemic and lockdown like responses). So if everyone got it and assuming the same level of vaccination and other age/co-morbitity factors of those 1000 cases, it would translate to 5000 deaths (i.e. 0.1% mortality). That might seem high in an absolute sense but these are more than likely to be very old and already sick people. So how many of these people would die in the near future anyway, noting that we have about 35,000 deaths from all causes a year? It's all very disconcerting at a personal level if one of your loved one dies but die we all must, its all about timing. And of course we making huge compromises as a society to avoid covid deaths (yet not any other deaths it seems). It's all very well claiming the high ground in "what is the value of a life?" but we make those decisions every day in terms of where dollars are spent in health, on road safety, mental health etc (some of which are going to increase as issues because of the response to Covid). There has to be a point where the politicians and health officials acknowledge that death can occur because of covid and that we are damaging the young in favour of protecting the old and frail from a particular virus.

by fat pat | 13th Sep 21, 6:26pm 1631514413

NZ will be a poor third world country by the time Labour is through.

by flyer | 13th Sep 21, 7:08pm 1631516920

If you recall when we went into lockdowns last year, Ardern was very much on the ultra conservative when it comes to loosening the restrictions. We had days, if not weeks, of zero, until we went from level 4 to 3.

Now this time round, with the outbreak not contained (as seen in the unlinked cases), and with the daily average of around 20 in recent days, she is toying with the idea of level 3.

Reading between the lines, the govt is out of ideas, and getting a good dose of reality.

Elimination is dead.

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 7:50pm 1631519436

And yet Delta now presents much more danger we are told, than what we had 18months ago. Hardly makes sense does it.

by fat pat | 13th Sep 21, 8:53pm 1631523184

Doesn’t make any sense does it. If by some divine miracle the government succeeded in temporarily ridding the country of covid1984 then we’d have to become more isolationist than North Korea in order to maintain it. Success = failure. The governments talk of opening the country is mutually exclusive to their current actions. Meanwhile 1.5 billion dollars per week is being wasted to contain a virus which is less dangerous than the flu for most people, and that's partucularly true in the summer months.

by Lanthanide | 13th Sep 21, 10:37pm 1631529437

We had days, if not weeks, of zero, until we went from level 4 to 3.

Yeah, because the government was making it up as they went along, and knew they didn't have as good test coverage as they would really like, so didn't really believe the 0 case results they were getting each day, but were counting on movement restrictions to dampen down any ongoing transmission.

In hindsight it seems we were really quite lucky.

by Nifty1 | 13th Sep 21, 7:24pm 1631517853

Let's be real, compliance is going down & case numbers are going to go up. Anybody else know of, or heard of someone not following the rules, extending their bubble, trading etc? It's becoming more common and everyone seems to be able justify their actions.

In summary, we're wasting our time now. There needs to be a plan B. It's probably too late though, plan B - vaccination? The rollout was failed and far too slow. What else is the governments plan...

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 7:48pm 1631519297

Just a hypothetical question to expand on the question of civil disobedience. If Mr Delta should get in amongst all those various patched fond of bikes and other members, including but not limited to deportees from Australia, who exactly is going to muster them up, corral them in quarantine and keep them happily under lock and key?

by FCM | 14th Sep 21, 10:35am 1631572543

exactly, they have little regard for authority anyway. Maybe Jacinda will throw another 2 million at them, we will pay you to get the vaccine but not anyone else, just because you have given the middle finger to authority.

by Caughtinthemiddle | 13th Sep 21, 8:03pm 1631520230

There was a truck party on Saturday in a quarry near Papakura that hasn't hit the news yet. Unconfirmed reports that two people in attendance have become symptomatic since and returned positive swabs. It that's true a new cluster may emerge this week.

by Pragmatist | 13th Sep 21, 8:14pm 1631520867

Strong competition for the title of most dumbarse Aucklanders, maybe the Barrister and boyfriend aren't a dead set shoe in.

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 8:25pm 1631521553

do you mean barista? think the accused party is only of 26ys, very young for a barrister and surely in that case wouldn’t be that unintelligent?

by Pragmatist | 13th Sep 21, 8:56pm 1631523416

The rumour is Barrister, and the man is apparently the son of a Judge. But a well off son of a "public official" with a woman 9 years his junior.. could be the hot Barista from his favourite cafe, we'll have to wait and see if name suppression gets lifted!

by Foxglove. | 13th Sep 21, 9:20pm 1631524815

Tell you what after that lady in Hamilton last year was fame shamed and named by the government if this clown is allowed to hide behind the skirts of being a relative of a public servant then that just proves not only the unaccountability and arrogance of our civil service but also the utter corruption of their moral standards.

by Nifty1 | 13th Sep 21, 9:23pm 1631525027

This will go quiet, for sure... friends in high place and all that.

by sharetrader | 14th Sep 21, 8:06am 1631563570

their names are all over the internet, not hard to find, they have been named on twitter and reddit so not sure what name suppression will accomplish

by sharetrader | 13th Sep 21, 8:03pm 1631520235

i see more and more local traffic every afternoon

by Milroy | 13th Sep 21, 7:31pm 1631518308

I have not seen any numbers of vaccination information of COVID-19 positive case's, Labour doesn't want to admit their vaccination failure, All spin info. Sick of watching this reality show,

by Pragmatist | 13th Sep 21, 8:18pm 1631521106

Then you haven't been looking, they are out there

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-delta-outbreak-how-many…

by jerry_NZ | 13th Sep 21, 8:10pm 1631520620

This is how communism looks like. They will tell you what is good for you , what you can and what you can't do.

by TonyBarnett | 13th Sep 21, 10:31pm 1631529078

The PM is now living on hope. She knows the government hasn’t delivered on getting NZers vaccinated early. She knows NZ is second-last in the OECD. She knows that if NZ was 85% vaccinated and not 35% vaccinated the economic pain being suffered by NZers would be so much lower.

She knows NZ has a large anti-vax movement & NZ will be lucky to to be 85% vaccinated by Mar 22. She knows money hasn’t been spent on developing surge capacity for icu nurses or expanding MIQ capability.

She knows MIQ & Auckland hospitals are already at capacity & there are increasing delays for standard operations. She knows it is not a great look that Kiwis cannot book MIQ & get back to NZ for Xmas.

She knows that if Delta gets any bigger the health system will start to collapse.

She knows she is now living on hope. Her hope is that Delta will get eliminated & if it doesn’t she will have no option but to keep Auckland locked down until NZ is 85% vaccinated. March 2022?

She knows continued lockdowns until Mar 22 are not economically sustainable at $1 billion per week.

She knows that Delta has an incubation period of up to 14 days and you can pass on the virus without being symptomatic. She knows it will be pure luck if this virus can be stopped because not all people are compliant with staying at home. She knows that this virus will need at least 2 more 14 day cycles of lockdown & compliance with staying at home but doesn’t want to tell NZ that.

She knows she is living on hope & she knows there is a realistic chance that this virus will not be eliminated this time. If it doesn’t NZ will suffer more than other countries because our vaccination rates & icu nursing capacity are worse than most other countries in the OECD.

She knows that all her political capital will be gone if the virus is not eliminated in this current outbreak.

by custard | 13th Sep 21, 10:38pm 1631529493

Simply nailed Tony - Bravo!!

To be honest it's rather anguished to witness these truisms played out - we deserved better.

by Flying high | 14th Sep 21, 4:47am 1631551668

The outbreak did wonders for upping the demand for vaccination

by Foxglove. | 14th Sep 21, 6:45am 1631558706

Could we please have TB’s above post on flashing billboards throughout the land. That at least would counter a good deal of this government’s propaganda and make up for the inability and/or reluctance of our MSM to ask any hard questions of them.

by Pietro | 14th Sep 21, 11:41am 1631576477

My thoughts exactly. Delta, if the death rate is an indicator, seems milder than the original strain (one death from 1000 cases in a largely unvaccinated population. Many people will not be sick enough to care, others will be terrified of quarantine. I would be surprised if we host 70% of qualifying people. Huge anti-vax sentiment in some ‘churches’. The Tamikis, who have huge influence in South Auckland, are strongly opposed to vaccinations.

by Lanthanide | 14th Sep 21, 1:11pm 1631581898

The deaths in the first case were mostly concentrated in elderly rest homes, which have not been places of infection in this outbreak, because we're properly prepared and those places aren't allowing any visitors. All staff need to be double-vaxxed and most occupants will be as well.

Last time there were still rest homes that were allowing visitors right up until we went into level 4 lockdown.

It's not that delta is less deadly, it's that we're more prepared.

by Squishy | 14th Sep 21, 12:01am 1631534486

As an Auckland refugee I welcome this announcement about a future announcement that might preempt a future change.

The real guarantee I want is no more lockdowns and a cessation of managed border isolation. This is enough now, we have to move on from this strategy that is diverging from facing the global reality about Covid-19. I want a full reopening.

by Albert2020 | 14th Sep 21, 6:51am 1631559084

Once you give up on elimination you realize you can’t go back right? You better hope you or any of your family don’t get sick if restrictions are completely lifted because your outcome will be dire if the Heath system crashes under the weight of covid hospitalization

by Stuart Mason | 14th Sep 21, 7:20am 1631560814

To sum up 2021 so far:

A vaccination rollout that was to slow, badly administered and inflexible to keep pace with demand as public attitudes to vaccination changed. This has resulted in peoples' health being put at greater risk for much longer than it might have been, caused greater case numbers, much more serious infections, hospitalisations and potential death.

The consequent lockdowns have cost billions of tax payer dollars. Wrecked businesses. Stopped numerous cancer and other essential operations. Etc,etc

When will this government apologise to the team of 5 million for failing on both the health and the economic front?

by sharetrader | 14th Sep 21, 8:04am 1631563441

for auckland to get out of this they need pop up testing at locations of interest , ie supermarkets in south auckland, they also need essential workplace testing, i get temp checked every day but that is all

and they need to roll out fast testing at workplaces , they may not be perfect but if done daily they become more accurate

Rapid Antibody COVID-19 Tests Found to be Effective Tools (contagionlive.com)

by waymad | 14th Sep 21, 9:37am 1631569048

Gubmint to retail and hospo:

The beatings will continue until morale improves....

by delboy | 14th Sep 21, 10:33am 1631572422

I’m unsure why they make the Auckland border at the regional boundary instead of progressively bringing the boundaries back towards Central and South Auckland.

Having Wellsford and even Warkworth in level 4 doesn’t seem necessary.

by sparrow | 14th Sep 21, 10:49am 1631573343

As far as I know there's been no cases or places of interest in Pukekohe, Waiuku, Tuakau, Onewhero, Pokeno or Port Waikato (apart from one in Pukekohe right at the beginning). If the wastewater is clear move the border to Drury. One of the disadvantages of not having a local mayor to advocate for the community.

by sharetrader | 14th Sep 21, 10:54am 1631573681

too many people live out that way that work in essential work, the queue of cars every morning and night would be huge

by Pietro | 14th Sep 21, 11:35am 1631576143

It’s a mystery why Warkworth is lumped in with Auckland. It’s a long way from the CBD, and there are two easy road blocks. Mind you, there were eight cases there at the start of the outbreak, although that wasn’t reported.

by Tigadee | 14th Sep 21, 11:23am 1631575390

There's realisation around the world that elimination just isn't working. That's why so many countries are now relaxing lockdowns and working harder on vaccination. There's also realisation that vaccination doesn't mean 100% immunity, but that any vaccinated who do get infected at least do not suffer as much or as long as un-vaccinated. Chances of death are also much much lower if you were vaccinated...

And natural immunity is looking like it's the best bet - which means whether you're vaccinated or not, it'd benefit you more if you've been naturally infected with resulting longer lasting antibodies. Covid's not going anywhere, folks - might as well get used to it. Which means you'll (vaccinated or un-vaccinated) probably end up getting it sooner or later - be it in 10 hours' time or in 10 years... It'd just be less severe if you were vaccinated so it's not a bad idea to get vaccinated, unless you're so supremely confident you'll weather its effects whilst un-vaccinated.

And TBH, NZ is a pimple of the world's butt, so for priorities in information, advice, guidance and support, I don't think we rank very high on anybody's lists, e.g. WHO. So basically the NZ govt - under any party - would mostly be starting from scratch and learning as it goes. And since we're so small, we don't have a lot of the resources and knowledge we should to tackle something like this (even second time round), so people and infrastructure are sorely stretched to the limit.

So it really doesn't matter who's in charge, they will appear as if they don't know any better but then neither would any of us, if we're truly honest here...