I knew the number. 0800 022 022. It was 2degrees, calling me on a Sunday morning.
I had a problem with the company, and it all started when my son had an accident while kayaking in March.
He sliced his foot open climbing out of the lake, which resulted in days and nights in Starship Hospital.
Of course, we needed data to pass the time.
So I purchased an “add on data pack” for $50 in the middle of March. There were two words next to it in the app: 'auto renewal.' I thought very little about it. I was happy I wouldn’t have to worry about burning through data while we waited for another surgery. (I have since learned of 2degrees' data clock where you can get a free hour of wifi, but at this stage I was a data-buying newbie).
The trouble started about three weeks later. I got a text. “Hold tight, we’re working on your 15GB National Data request and will let you know when we’re done.”
So I texted to STOP the renewal. I didn’t want this data.
Next text: “The auto renewal of 15GB Data Pack has been stopped.”
And yet, I was then charged for an additional data pack in April, and then also in May. All up, an extra $100.
I thought ‘OK, I screwed up the April one, I will take it on the chin’. But May as well? I don’t think so.
So I sent an email to 2degrees. After some tooing and frooing to “authentic my account” via email, Jackson emailed me back.
He hoped I understood, but because I had already used the data in the data pack in May that I never wanted and didn't have enough data to “return the data in full”, it couldn’t be refunded.
Too bad, so sad. So I took to the phone.
After waiting for about 40 minutes (I never want to listen to Sway by Bic Runga ever again), I had a real person on the line.
He was no more sympathetic, and like Jackson, didn’t accept for one second that it was unfair or misleading to automatically charge someone for three months of data after they purchased one data pack.
According to the 2degrees phone rep, because I hadn’t stopped the data pack from rolling over once, I had actually agreed to buy it for a further two months. Buy one, pay for three. What a deal (for 2degrees).
Nothing I said sank in.
I mentioned the Fair Trading Act, Consumer Guarantees Act, I pointed out there were only two words on the app “auto renewal”. How could charging me for three months after buying one pack possibly be fair?
I copped to not stopping it before the April pack rolled over within a month. But come on, what about May? I wanted my $50 back.
He insisted I had signed up to a billing cycle that 2degrees hadn’t told me about, and when I stopped the pack in April at that point I had actually agreed to also pay in May because the cycle rolled over on the fourth of the month.
We went round in ever-decreasing circles, both annoyed. After putting me on hold for what felt like an age after I channeled my alter ago, Karen, and asked him to kick my moan up the chain, he offered me $25. The maximum amount his manager was approved to offer. That was it.
He wouldn’t, or couldn't, tell me what to do with my complaint since I was unsatisfied with 2degrees' response.
He wouldn’t give me a complaint number.
He was rude and dismissive. He wanted me off the line. Everyone else was still waiting for ages as I had, why wouldn’t I just give up and go away, so he could pick up the next call and tell them to rack off, too?
He did have one piece of good advice. The way to stop 2degrees ripping you off, everyone, is to add your own spend control limit via the app, allegedly. Not a totally wasted hour of my life, then.
So I took NZ Telecommunications Forum (TCF) chief executive Paul Brislen’s advice and took my issue to the Telecommunications Dispute Resolution Service (TDRS), the industry's own dispute scheme.
I filled out a basic online form, uploaded an image. Done.
Within a few days I had a long apology from Freya at 2degrees. My bill for June was paid, and a credit applied. $100 in total.
How often does 2degrees do this? Who knows. They never replied to my email asking them to explain.
Brislen says it is far too hard for consumers to complain to their mobile phone or internet provider.
It takes too long; these are communications companies. Why are they so bad at answering the phone?
A 2021 review by the fairly fresh Telecommunications Commissioner Tristan Gilbertson found the TDRS could be improved.
The TCF, Brislen says, has taken on board all of the feedback, and even gone further than the Telecommunications Commissioner suggested. It has a new customer code of conduct (for example, 2degrees should have been able to tell me to head to the TDRS when I said I wasn't satisfied with its response rather than asking me to hang up), it is spinning out the scheme so it is a standalone entity, with its own chair and board.
It would be great not to need dispute resolution schemes. Consumers shouldn’t have to fight for weeks and hours with their mobile provider, or internet company, for basic fairness.
It is simply not fair, and predatory, to charge someone for three months of a service after buying one.
I am grateful there is a dispute resolution scheme. Take note of those who don't belong.
In late 2022 the Commerce Commission published its 'naughty or nice' list, of telecoms firms in the TDRS, and those on the outside, such as provider Voyager.
The Commission said Contact Energy, InspireNet and Lightwire also didn't belong.
They argue, via the Internet Service Providers Association of New Zealand, that TDRS membership doesn't correlate with superior customer service (fair), and they say consumers have plenty of options such as the Consumer Guarantees Act and Disputes Tribunal. A Dispute Tribunal complaint would not have been as fast and easy for me as using the scheme. It would have cost $45 to even lodge a claim, and then the tribunal aims to hear your case within six weeks.
They also don't want to pay for the scheme, and say its costs are "unfairly biased in favour of large providers".
Brislen dismisses those arguments. He says those companies aren't reporting and measuring their complaints, how would we know they have great customer service? And he says, if a telecommunications or internet company can't afford about $6000 to belong, their customers "have bigger problems".
The number of people using the TDRS has risen, with more than 3,000 people using the scheme in 2022. In the second half of 2022, TDRS says it had as many complaints as in the entire previous year.
And if you are forced to use it like I was, the results are pretty good. TDRS says about 3% of the complaints made to it needed more formal dispute resolution assistance such as facilitation or mediation, or for TDR to make a decision on the complaint.
When my phone rang on Sunday, it was after Freya had emailed, and after the credit had been applied to my account.
2degrees also followed up with an email on Monday.
They’re happy to look into my complaint. All I need to do is answer these security questions, and my email will be authenticated...
32 Comments
As a customer of Voyager, they've been great every time I've had to contact customer service. Once for an outage and a couple of time to upgrade my services. Tech support people seem to actually know something about the system and aren't just script reading level 1 support drones.
My experience with moving my cell away from 2 degrees was annoying, for months if not years after I did I'd get texts and emails saying my account was 2c in credit and I had nothing to pay. Couldn't get them to wipe that balance or refund it, or donate it to a charity or another user and actually delete my number out of the system, the call centre droid was absolutely powerless to do anything. Eventually the system must have culled my account because it stopped.
Say it like it is ! --- my partner picked up extra data charges more than her contract -- on a 300gb deal -- when there were better unlimited deals out there -! so after hours on the phone -- finally got a switch to a fibre deal - queue hours of on hold time -- two routers no connection -- further excess charges on the old router which for some reason they could not recon\figure -- !! End result 35 days later no fibre connection --
Had to go to shop to cancel as after 1hr 20 on phone and then a promised call back - which never happened --- just went to office -- another hour when even the salesman got frustrated to eventually cancel both --- meantime -- an old provider simply remoted in to my laptop connected to my old sim - restarted both - configured for fibre and bingo going wihtin 24 hours -
2 Degrees -- = worst customer service ever from a so called communications company -
Oh and if you are experiencing higher than normal phone calls for over a month at all times -- its not unnormal - its the normal so staff up 1
2degrees ripped me off. Here's how I got my money back
13/6/23 - 2degrees founder Tex Edwards offers $5000 reward after Grey Lynn home break-in, Lexus car theft
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/2degrees-founder-tex-edwards-offers…
If there is one area where New Zealand really rocks, it's the various options available to consumers who have been duped or didn't get a fair go.
I had issues with a brand-new Mazda. I was bemused that a simple fault couldn't be fixed and they were pissed that I wouldn't back down. Lots of back and forth with the dealer which resulted in a full refund for a car I had bought brand-new 3 months earlier and driven 6,000 in.
Also had issues with a Fisher & Paykel washing machine. Great appliance which unfortunately died early but terrible customer services department whose attitude was "It's out of warranty and you're out of luck!" I filed with the Disputes Tribunal and was going to argue that under the Consumer Guarantees Act the appliance should have lasted longer. f&P caved in and paid me off 3 days before the case was heard.
New Zealand consumer law really protects the consumer. However, many companies seem to have a policy whereby they make the consumer fight for their rights. Do your research, follow up and experience shows me there's a good chance you will get resolution.
Isn't it funny how a $30k car or a $1k appliance is exempt from buyer beware, with all the consumer protections in place etc. You could have bought BMW knowing how unreliable they are and still been covered for mechanical issues in the short term.
Yet if the bank sells a mortgage product that in 12 months time becomes no longer fit for purpose (interest rates triple), the young naïve borrower (not the bank) "should have known better".
Don't feel bad about being baited, I'm sure it's no secret I throw around flippant and sometimes ridiculous comments on here from time to time to either thought provoke or humor.
But going back to my point, isn't it funny how we have all these protection mechanisms in place for minor everyday purchases etc to protect people from bad judgement (you should know a cheap fridge won't last etc.), but take out half a million dollar loan to provide a stable roof for your family and you're at the whim of the bank's fickle funding model.
A pity the same consumer protection doesn't apply when buying a spec house or building a new house in NZ. More protection with buying a toaster or a service. I think one reason the author had such a good result is I understand the TDR does charge the ISP when one of their customers makes complaint through them.
Though it has retained the 2Degree's brand, 2Degree's was purchased by Vocus last year. Vocus in turn was purchased and delisted from the Aussie stock market by a consortium of Macquarie Infrastructure,Real Assets (MIRA) and superannuation fund Aware Super. The physical impact of that in NZ is both corporate teams in NZ were smashed together earlier this year, and it will be no surprise that some staff have left or were let go. Summary they are somewhat in disarray. Not an excuse - just the reality.
If your really grumpy, relocate the account to another provider. We have, to avoid being involved with the mess above. You will have spent way more of your own time working on this than the credit was worth.
Is this news...?
Wouldnt deal with 2 degrees ever I have tried them 3 times can get account right and very bad rude people to deal with
Spark lost the plot , couldnt get connection in Christchurch where I live
So ended up with One NZ great company now very easy to deal with and they have great vision
Jetstar cancelled the plane then stole the fare from me. Jetstar was a brick wall on that.
The rash of recent ferry cancellations led to media outlining that the law was in my favour. Dispute process would have done it. But too late for me now to get my money back.
But there is a rule in the family now. Never Jetstar. Never ever. Vengeful consumer here. Over the years it has cost them big.
I'm currently pursuing my $139 credit payment that Jetstar confirmed they would pay for ~2months & counting.
Started when their online transaction process failed - deducted from my bank account (lucky I had bank transaction & booking number records) but didn't credit their account. Also cost me a more expensive replacement ticket after their original flight credit failed to materialize despite several promises to which Jetstar said that's hard luck.
I forget the exact details but I had similar trouble for months with Vodafone when I moved away from them. Quite different experience to when I had joined them, their rep was fantastic then.
One trick to use with a complaint to a call centre is to not end the call until you are satisfied. It seems they are not allowed to hang up until you agree, or abuse/swear at them.
You guys are doing it all wrong.
2 degree is easy to manipulate for what you want.
1. Go pay as you go
2. Manipulate the monthly packs to suit your data usage. I use $50 pack to get data then change to 20 buck packs until data gets low,( about 5-6 months)
3. Pay by cash via supermarket top up voucher. Never give them your credit,/ debit card
4. Put enough credit on account to cover monthly purchase only
5. Stop your packs when you change data packs sizes.
6. When I travel overseas I change to auto renew with $10 packs then buy a sim card via Sim Corner or direct at airport ( especially Asia and Aussie) never use NZ sim overseas!!!!!
7. Aussie is $20 for 35 gig, Asia is as low as ,$10 per 50 gig. NZ🤑 is a rip off.
Had a similar experience with Spark last year. Bought an iPad off work so put a $30 a month data plan on it. They didn't tell me about the "Casual NZ data limit" that's applied. So when I went over I got an extra $100 bill as that is what the default is set to. (Options are $0, $10, $20, $50, $100 and they also have an unlimited option). The casual data being charged at 30c/MB meant $100 got me 333mb. I can buy extra data, 1000mb for $20.
So I rung them and got stuck in after they weren't keen to remedy the situation. They said a text had been sent before the cap had been reached but being an ipad there was no number to associate so no text. I asked if they could link my cell which was on the same account but they weren't able to.
Then I asked why they'd set the default to the highest setting rather than $0 and then give the customer the option to extend. And also pointed out their data rates were bloody expensive when I could just "buy extra" for a lot less. Mentioned extortion a few times. Finally after going up to their manager they refunded the $100.
Then I put my account through my business a few months later and went through the same bloody process again as they'd reset the default cap back to $100 without telling me. Same deal, they offered payment plans etc for the extra $100. That phone call was fun haha.
Shouldn't they set some sort of standards?. Telecoms have to give you a email trail at least , respond within 7 days , I don't think that's unreasonable. They are just waiting for you to give up or forget , and most will , so the majority don't make it to the disputes stage.
I had a -$0.20 balance so they decided to charge me a whole $10 to cover for it. My topup request was for $10.20, but no, the charged 20$, then did it twice, and later refunded the double charge. My partner was double charged which they didn't automatically fix and she had top get on the phone for 40 minutes to have it resolved. Switched providers since.
Why call out one company?
I've had many bad experiences with customer services in New Zealand from retail to government and so on. What I've realised is most don't know their jobs well, and customers really should not know the product or regulations better.
The worst part is getting bounced to different customer service people, as happens with some companies. E.g. you ask a question, John replies asking for clarification, Susan replies to your next reply, and so on.
The best customer service interaction I've had this year was with an Australian company based in Melbourne. 1 service person for the whole issue, competently performed.
The worst was with someone from an antivirus NZ office telling me via email about my computer, which they had never seen and didn't have any diagnostic information about, including what I had and had not done or seen. It became gaslighting.
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